Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[Gecklund]

Hey Everyone!

We are running a GM Game over on the GM Game Boards. Basically the whole game is built around becoming the GM of a team, making trades, doing a quick entry draft, signing Free Agents, etc. NYR is open! If this sounds interesting to you let me know!

 

[I Eat Crow]

This Ciaccio guy was a Sather hire?

Abort immediately.

 

[bhamill]

Teams in the NHL this year scored 2.58 g/60 minutes of 5 on 5 ice time this year. They scored 6.55 g/60 at 3 on 3. Not. Comparable.


Strongly disagree because in 3 v 3 and with the goalie pulled your chance of scoring on a given play is increased significantly, both ways. They are random and noisy events and not a part of the flow of the game, especially in the playoffs.


yeah but those rare events produce a much stronger chance of producing a goal, particularly goalie pulled and 3 on 3.

But they are such small sample percentages that they really don’t move then needle greatly. If we’re going to drill down like that, I think linemate comparisons are far more important. And which defenders are on ice as well. Being on the ice regularly with Fox as opposed to Harpur, for instance would have a bigger impact than extremely limited 3x3. And for any 3x3 OT situation, obviously only one goal max can be scored between both teams. I dont think that drives scoring totals very much.
Again I’m not saying it’s not a difference, it’s just not that impactful when we’re making general comparisons. If the word “about,” or the like, is in there EV works fine. Team systems, usage and regular linemates all seem more impactful. Im not telling YOU to use EV, Im just saying for the general purposes of a fan message board I think we can roll with it without derision. Hahaha.

 

[McRanger92]

If there is any truth to that Panarin for Tkachuk rumor and Panarin is the reason we couldnt get him, I will never like Gorton, JD or Panarin ever again.

I remember the rumor being that Drury was interested in trading for him but it wouldve required Lafreniere and/or Kakko (which none of us wouldve done at the time) and Calgary was not ready to move him yet. In a sense Panarin did preclude them from being able to acquire him but the ship had sailed a long time before that and there were other complicating factors.

 

[haohmaru]

I gotta give Marc Staal credit. The guy is absolutely cooked physically, but he keeps trudging out there. He's been cooked for a while, but yet he still eats up those minutes (albeit being a liability).

He was on the ice and a positive factor for both of the panthers first two goals last night. I uh missed the third goal. He’s been good. For him, I mean.

 

[McRanger92]

He was on the ice and a positive factor for both of the panthers first two goals last night. I uh missed the third goal. He’s been good. For him, I mean.

He is good enough for a team in the ECF 3 years later , but was apparently so bad for us that we used a 2nd to move his contract with a year left at a time when we weren't a playoff team and needed veteran leadership. At least we brought in Jack Johnson to replace him for 5 games and then have hernia surgery on the team's dime (I bet Dolan loved that). Oh yeah and he won the Cup a year later. 5D chess by John Davidson. Glad he's Columbus' problem now.

On a related note, I long for the time when homegrown Rangers were treated with respect and admiration by the organization. The way the rebuild played out, it basically was an excuse for the front office to unceremoniously dump guys we drafted and developed and gave us the best moments the team has had post 05 lockout. And then replace them with overpaid mercenaries from other teams who have hamstrung the cap. How they treated Henrik to end his career to cater to that overpaid prick Georgiev) set the benchmark and it was a bad one.

It continued with the prospects the team drafted. Lafreniere, Kakko, Chytil all promising young players that have only known this organization but have been treated like second class citizens to cater to the veterans, who with the exception of Kreider, have accomplished nothing in terms of team success outside of last years run. The Lundqvist era Rangers were at the end of their run, but the winning culture that group instilled in the organization left with them.

I know this is just rambling frustration with how everything has gone but we were essentially lied to as fans with the letter. We hitched the rebuild to mercenaries and malcontents, rather than maintaining the culture and imparting it on to the high draft picks we knew were coming. The locker room culture is rotten from the top down and while it's not to late to fix it, we are very much boxed in with this group.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm going to laugh if Sorokin is the only Russian goalie that the Canes can beat.

He was on the ice and a positive factor for both of the panthers first two goals last night. I uh missed the third goal. He’s been good. For him, I mean.

What did he do on the 2nd panther goal that was "positive?"

He was also partially responsible for the 1st goal against and basically tried to give the game away a half dozen times in OT. He's been good for him only because he's been bailed out by pretty ridiculous goaltending. Bob saved 5+ goals above expected last night which is Igor level shit.

 

[bl02]

I'm going to laugh if Sorokin is the only Russian goalie that the Canes can beat.



What did he do on the 2nd panther goal that was "positive?"

He was also partially responsible for the 1st goal against and basically tried to give the game away a half dozen times in OT. He's been good for him only because he's been bailed out by pretty ridiculous goaltending. Bob saved 5+ goals above expected last night which is Igor level shit.

Staal is definitely the weak link on the team. You could tell the Canes would dump it in on his side and send two guys immediately to him.
The difference is his Panther teammates for the most part did a great job covering for him and supporting him. Retrieving the puck when he basically would just lob it out because he could not skate with it and make a play.

If Mark Ciaciaicjicollo is still here.... We have serious problems

We stayed healthy at least... but maybe it's time to take our training/health to the next level?

The entire front office needs an overhaul. It's 2023. We've been stuck in Sathers 80's for waaaaaay too long

The guy has been a black cloud and continues to be. Why can't he just retire and disappear to one of his favorite fishing villages?

 

[The Gloaming]

He is good enough for a team in the ECF 3 years later , but was apparently so bad for us that we used a 2nd to move his contract with a year left at a time when we weren't a playoff team and needed veteran leadership. At least we brought in Jack Johnson to replace him for 5 games and then have hernia surgery. Oh yeah and he won the Cup a year later. 5D chess by John Davidson. Glad he's Columbus' problem now.

JJ is still bad. Just because he was there with a powerhouse Avs team doesn't mean he doesn't suck. Staal is getting lucky as all hell right now. If Nemeth happens to be on a SC contender one day, he is still terrible.

If we want to complain about sending away players, those aren't the guys to complain about. What we should complain about is the fact that crap like JMFJ and Nemeth were brought in in the first place and then had to be gotten rid of.

If we want to cry about players who we let go, what about Duclair, Howden, Graves, even JAM.

I guess the Duke was too fast for the Rangers.

 

[McRanger92]

JJ is still bad. Just because he was there with a powerhouse Avs team doesn't mean he doesn't suck. Staal is getting lucky as all hell right now. If Nemeth happens to be on a SC contender one day, he is still terrible.

If we want to complain about sending away players, those aren't the guys to complain about. What we should complain about is the fact that crap like JMFJ and Nemeth were brought in in the first place and then had to be gotten rid of.

If we want to cry about players who we let go, what about Duclair, Howden, Graves, even JAM.

I guess the Duke was too fast for the Rangers.

I'm not crying about Staal the player. Leadership means something, and it's no coincidence that after he, Fast and Lundqvist were thrown out with the bathwater the team had locker room issues two (2) games into the next season, which they never recovered from. And we are still feeling the effects in some ways.

 

[CsideEr]

Haven't heard that rumor but there is a less than 0% chance Panarin would've ever waived his NMC to go to Calgary. There's a better chance in us trading Lafreniere for McDavid 1 for 1 than Panarin waiving his NMC to go to Calgary.

Maybe as a three team trade were the pieces that were exchanged between FL and CGY remained the same but with NYR sending bread to FL and Tkachuk winding up in New York. Nice to dream about it…

 

[The Gloaming]

I'm not crying about Staal the player. Leadership means something, and it's no coincidence that after he, Fast and Lundqvist were thrown out with the bathwater the team had locker room issues two (2) games into the next season, which they never recovered from. And we are still feeling the effects in some ways.

Sure, I can see the leadership argument. But the contract the Rangers gave him was horrendous. So then they obviously had to pay to undo their mistake. A common theme with this team.

Obviously add Fast to the list of players who should not have left. We have no one who can forecheck like him at all.

 

[McRanger92]

Sure, I can see the leadership argument. But the contract the Rangers gave him was horrendous. So then they obviously had to pay to undo their mistake. A common theme with this team.

Obviously add Fast to the list of players who should not have left. We have no one who can forecheck like him at all.

That's the thing though, they didnt need to move Staal's contract at that time. Especially not when they needed to use assets to do it. The cap space sent went to deAngelo (bought out a month into the 2021 season), Lemiuex (trade request and gone by 2021 deadline, and Georgiev (selfish teammate who both parties couldnt wait for the divorce). These are the malcontents Gorton & JD prioritized.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Stop trading young players and fix the development aspect of the team, it's whats holding us back from a cup, we have 2 potential 70 point players stalled in their development and a few young d that need to get over a hump. The team consistantly puts the cart before the horse, they get a young player and force him into the lineup and then say he's not in NHL shape, well then why is he in the NHL? The only way to get young players to do what you want is to dangle the nhl carrot in front of them until they put in the work

 

[LOFIN]

Not sure if this should belong to here, Hartford or prospects thread. But anyway, seems like Pajuniemi is heading back to Europe (Malmö). It's behind a paywall so can't extrapolate further than what the title says.

Lauri Pajuniemi palaamassa Eurooppaan – osoitteena Malmö

Lauri Pajuniemen kausi päättyi keskiviikkona, kun Hartford Wolf Pack hävisi kolmannen kerran Hershey Bearsille AHL:n Atlantin divisioonan loppuotteluissa.

www.ts.fi

 

[mas0764]

Zibanejad's skill was immediately obvious from his first preseason game and you could see him making plays with the puck. They shouldn't give up on them but "This player started slow and broke out when he got older so our plays will do the same" isn't exactly a great argument. Plenty of players start slow and stay that way.

Plenty of players with no talent start out slow and stay that way.

Top 5, top 10 picks... there are a pretty good number of them that start out slow but get better. Enough that it's a decent enough argument that we need more patience.

It can also be true that Lafreniere will never reach 1OA heights that were expected for him, but that he can get better.

The argument that isn't necessarily a great argument is the "he doesn't show anything," argument. First, it's completely subjective, and second, being lost in an environment will dampen the skills he can display on a consistent basis, and that's my contention. He's struggling mentally and that is why the skills don't appear to be there.

I think that is eminently fixable though for sure not guaranteed.

 

[McRanger92]

Not sure if this should belong to here, Hartford or prospects thread. But anyway, seems like Pajuniemi is heading back to Europe (Malmö). It's behind a paywall so can't extrapolate further than what the title says.

Lauri Pajuniemi palaamassa Eurooppaan – osoitteena Malmö

Lauri Pajuniemen kausi päättyi keskiviikkona, kun Hartford Wolf Pack hävisi kolmannen kerran Hershey Bearsille AHL:n Atlantin divisioonan loppuotteluissa.

www.ts.fi

Another promising career ruined by the evil Rangers player development staff

 

[LOFIN]

Another promising career ruined by the evil Rangers player development staff

I wish he would've been given a better look, although it was hard from the roster perspective. I thought he looked decent during the pre-season games where he played. Body strength seemed like his biggest weakness then.

 

[gravey9]

Stop trading young players and fix the development aspect of the team, it's whats holding us back from a cup, we have 2 potential 70 point players stalled in their development and a few young d that need to get over a hump. The team consistantly puts the cart before the horse, they get a young player and force him into the lineup and then say he's not in NHL shape, well then why is he in the NHL? The only way to get young players to do what you want is to dangle the nhl carrot in front of them until they put in the work

Straight up, the Rangers should hire someone from the Dodgers management team to run their system. I am a lifelong Dodgers fan and they've almost always had the best player development system in the world. They're great at identifying talent and they're wonderful at developing it. Year after year, contending or not, they always have a few guys come up to the bigs. And they always have like 20 guys in the system to get excited about. Baseball is different of course, but the mechanics of how one builds out their player development program from a macro level is very similar. So, yeah, I agree with your basic assessment here but if I were the Rangers I'd really be using any and all financial advantages in player development. For instance, if I were the Rangers i would co-sponsor or run proprietary player development programs all over the world. The league only drafts 220 players a year. There are thousands and thousands more that go under the radar (probs cause they suck). But, I would be partnering with other international pro teams in Finland, Sweden, all over America, Denmark, Germany, you name it. I guarantee we'd find some gems that way and at the least the team would build bridges to young talent all over the world.

I just read an article about the Dodgers setting up a baseball development program in a remote part of Uganda. A place where baseball isn't particularly big. The existence of the program and how they run it definitely has some bigger issues on a cultural/societal level. But that's the outside the box thinking that helps teams in the long run. The Dodgers have already drafted a few kids from that facility and so have a few other MLB teams. Finding the next Mats Zuccarrello every year should be something heavily invested in. Esp if we keep trading picks! Plus this would greatly build the brand worldwide.

 

[RangerBoy]

Run it back with the same group. Re-sign Miller and Lafreniere. Move Goodrow. Fill out the roster with young players and a few veteran depth forwards for $1.25M-$1.5M.

Hire a competent coach and a staff.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Run it back with same group. Re-sign Miller and Lafreniere. Move Goodrow. Fill out the roster with young players and a few veteran depth forwards for $1.25M-$1.5M.

It all depends on what game plan the new coaching staff brings. I wouldn't hold my breath if they get lazy and hire a Laviolette or someone else that will cater to Panarin and the rest of the vets that just want to make money and play pond hockey.

 

[duhmetreE]

Run it back with the same group. Re-sign Miller and Lafreniere. Move Goodrow. Fill out the roster with young players and a few veteran depth forwards for $1.25M-$1.5M.

Hire a competent coach and a staff.

Engvall and one of Blueger/Acciari are the two people I want signed. Can get 2 of them for almost the price of Goodrow.

 

[MrAlmost]

If Paju is heading back that is too bad. He had a good year and with openings on the RW, he could have had a real shot, especially if Knob gets the HC job.

 

[McRanger92]

Run it back with the same group. Re-sign Miller and Lafreniere. Move Goodrow. Fill out the roster with young players and a few veteran depth forwards for $1.25M-$1.5M.

Hire a competent coach and a staff.

This roster gets one more kick at the the can with a new coach and if there aren’t clear positive returns after next season, say goodbye to Trouba & Kreider. Rightfully so

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Running it back with the same group with a new staff is basically treating the symptoms, not the disease.

They really needed to make changes to both.