nsvoyageurs
Registered User
Also, one of Vancouver's Assistant GMs is Emilie Castonguay, who was Lafreniere's agent heading into his draft process. She would have a better idea of what Lafreniere is about than most people.
Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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- Jan 18, 2012
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To trade Laffy to Vancouver,
for me it'd be Lekkerimaki, their 2023 #11 and Petterson ( the defenseman )
P.S. - Laffy is not getting moved unless it's a ridiculous return.... or McDavid requests a trade to NYC,
for me it'd be Lekkerimaki, their 2023 #11 and Petterson ( the defenseman )
P.S. - Laffy is not getting moved unless it's a ridiculous return.... or McDavid requests a trade to NYC,
SA16
Sixstring
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I don't know where you got that from.
Lafreniere scored 1.64 points/60 and Garland scored 1.8.
That is objectively not the same amount. It's close, but it's not the same.
Even so, Chris Kreider scored 52 goals in 2022. Draisaitl scored 55 and Ovechkin scored 50. Is it fair to say Kreider is an equal goal-scorer to Ovechkin and Draisaitl now because it happened once? No, that would sound extremely dumb.
That Lafreniere will trend up is a massive assumption. To say that Garland is trending down at only 27 years old, or even that 1.8 p/60 is the player he is now, when he was over 2 for the three years prior is an even bigger assumption.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Garland's totals are visibly better in both metrics so I'm still not sure where any of this is coming from.
We're having an argument over whether 4 or 5 is a larger number.
- Feb 17, 2013
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You called me disingenuous for saying "they more or less score at the same rate this year". Then I looked up their even strength scoring rates and they were exactly the same, as shown here.
Whether you choose 5v5 only or even strength is largely semantics. They still scored "more or less" at the same rate. Have fun calling people out for minor BS though.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,290
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This is absolutely false. Even strength includes rare and much more random events like 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 in OT. I think it also includes goalie pulled events. They are not comparable.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Now I see what @SA16 was referring to. The source you're using considers 6v5 to be even strength. Obviously, it's not.
If people were arguing "Laf is younger and his production was close enough in 22-23 that I'll take my chances," then that's one thing.
Saying "these numbers are the same" when they're not or implying that Laf has ever been the level of scorer Garland is over a decent sample is a different thing.
I wanted Chychrun too but Arizona ended up with the #12 pick as part of the deal. That would have been tough to match.
- Apr 16, 2012
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On the other hand when you are trying to talk about a person’s scoring sans powerplay time, EV is fine. Perfect? No. But 4x4 , 3x3 and EN situations are dwarfed by how much of EV is 5v5. And mostly that’s what differentiates Laf from most players we compare him to: the comparables mostly get way more pp time/scoring. I think taking linemates into account is way more important than EV vs 5v5, but we don’t do much of that either, we are just trying to basically compare apples to apples.
- Feb 17, 2013
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It largely IS semantics because these RARE events, despite being more random, don't change the statistics all that much to make my statement, the two players scored at close to the same rate, inaccurate. Anyways it's not worth wasting any more time splitting hairs.
- Jan 18, 2012
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At the time, Ottawa looked poised to make the playoffs.
Looking back now, it was the best trade for Arizona
McRanger92
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2017
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Lafreniere barely plays, let alone scores, in the random event situations you mentioned
- Jul 16, 2005
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Kocur Dill
picklicious
- Feb 7, 2010
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I'm not on the trade Laf bandwagon. I'd rather explore Panarin if it's at possible with his camp.
But, that said, we have Othmann and Cuylle coming in soon that need ice time.
Somethings gotta give.
I wonder if Anaheim would consider something around MacTavish and Laffy as the main pieces, if they pick Fantilli?
Love Fil, but Mac T is an honest upgrade and puts us in a better spot as Trochek ages. Plus Fil can rotate with Kakko as the top 2 RW's.
If I was forced to trade Laf, that's the kind of deal I'd be comfortable with.
But, that said, we have Othmann and Cuylle coming in soon that need ice time.
Somethings gotta give.
I wonder if Anaheim would consider something around MacTavish and Laffy as the main pieces, if they pick Fantilli?
Love Fil, but Mac T is an honest upgrade and puts us in a better spot as Trochek ages. Plus Fil can rotate with Kakko as the top 2 RW's.
If I was forced to trade Laf, that's the kind of deal I'd be comfortable with.
UnSandvich
Registered User
- Sep 7, 2017
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A couple things (I’m just responding to you specifically bc I’m at work and don’t have time to go through the thread and @ each person):
First, I am pretty sure you (and a lot of other people in the thread) did not read my post, the one that mentioned the comparison in their scoring numbers.My statement was not a “X = Y”, but a “X is very close to Y”. I specified “basically equal”, rather than just “equal”, for that reason. 1.64 =/= 1.78, but they’re also not significantly different. It came out to a total of 2 more 5v5 points for Garland with each playing over 1000 mins.
Second, I think that when you consider each player’s most common line mates at 5v5, I think Lafreniere makes up ground. Maybe even surpasses. I love Fil & Kakko, don’t get me wrong, but they’re not JT Miller & Bo Horvat.
Third, I disagree that Laf trending up, or Garland trending down to a lesser extent, are massive assertions. Player development is not linear by any stretch, but in general, as players get older they play more and score more until they hit their peak and start declining. I don’t think Laf has hit his peak. On the other hand, Garland might trend down simply bc his team traded away one of his most common (and rather more productive) line mates in Bo Horvat
- Feb 17, 2013
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The only time I remember him on the ice during a 3 on 3 overtime, Laf skated into the opposing Dman on a 2 on 1, turn the puck over, then the other team scored. If anything, the 3v3 helps our case
- Jul 16, 2005
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McRanger92
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2017
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It's not even that I'm entirely opposed to the idea of Garland. I just think the idea of trading Laf for picks is nonsensical.
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
- Jul 9, 2007
- 19,974
- 13,634
Done. You guys are underselling Guhle big time. He was playing 20 minutes a night on Montreal's top pair to close the season and looked great. He's going to be a stud.
I'd parlay Lindgren for picks if that goes down in a related move.
- Jan 18, 2012
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I f***ing love Guhle.
He ate plates of shit last year but he was being asked to do way more than he should have been asked to do.
He ate plates of shit last year but he was being asked to do way more than he should have been asked to do.
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