Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[LaffyTaffy13]

Rs are NOT yet forced to clear cap/Goodrow.
Just don't bring back the wasted assets that were our rentals


cap math
fact that we'd rather have almost 3 Chytils for the same price as 1 Panarin

Silly post. Chytil’s who hit ufa would cost around what trocheck does.

 

[duhmetreE]

It's time to bring up moving Laffy to Center again.. Not comfortable on the right? No problem... maybe a change can help snap him out of this dark place


Kreider Zibs Kakko
Panarin Laffy Garland
Engvall Trocheck Chytil

dont ask me about cap

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Kreider's lost a step too. He isn't as slow as MH wants to make him out to be but he doesn't have that lethal "if I'm even with you in a foot race for a loose puck you're f***ed" speed anymore.

It doesn't impact him as much because he's going from elite to still pretty fast instead of slightly above average to borderline average. It also helps that he's 45-50 pounds heavier than Panarin and can actually play through other people. The half step of space that Panarin can't create anymore is massive for him.

The system didn't prevent the other top guys (Kreider, Zib, Fox) from being able to perform in the playoffs under Gallant. What is it about the system that has so drastically impacted Panarin's performance but wasn't the detriment on some of the other guys? Even if you want to say that he was in a shitty environment, he has played shitty comparatively to his peers who have been in the same environment.

The excuse making for him has gotten pretty exhausting. It's been his injured line mates, him being injured (which wasn't that serious anyway), Gallant, his mental state bc of pressure (which isn't an excuse and a pretty big red flag, so much for Jovo's AlphaSWAG theory with this guy huh?) At the end of the day he hasn't been good enough and theres no reason to really believe that its going to change other than wishful thinking or if he starts to do things out side of the realm of the rules.

The other thing with Kreider, that I was concerned about when he was signed, is that is isn’t just about him getting slower it’s also about other players across the league especially dmen getting faster. When Kreider entered the league he was pylon-ing Mike Rathje, Hal Gill, and Nicklas Grossman. That type of player doesn’t exist anymore. He used to self engineer a break in with his speed once / game. Doesn’t really happen anymore.

Thankfully he is probably one of the most dedicated hockey players to ever wear the uniform, up there with Hank. His commitment to keeping up his physical ability as he ages as well as to advance his net front skill set to still add value is truly remarkable. The only way NYR can develop a 1st liner is to draft one that is such a psycho off the ice on his own time that he engineers no other option but success.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kreider's lost a step too. He isn't as slow as MH wants to make him out to be but he doesn't have that lethal "if I'm even with you in a foot race for a loose puck you're f***ed" speed anymore.

It doesn't impact him as much because he's going from elite to still pretty fast instead of slightly above average to borderline average. It also helps that he's 45-50 pounds heavier than Panarin and can actually play through other people. The half step of space that Panarin can't create anymore is massive for him.

The system didn't prevent the other top guys (Kreider, Zib, Fox) from being able to perform in the playoffs under Gallant. What is it about the system that has so drastically impacted Panarin's performance but wasn't the detriment on some of the other guys? Even if you want to say that he was in a shitty environment, he has played shitty comparatively to his peers who have been in the same environment.

The excuse making for him has gotten pretty exhausting. It's been his injured line mates, him being injured (which wasn't that serious anyway), Gallant, his mental state bc of pressure (which isn't an excuse and a pretty big red flag, so much for Jovo's AlphaSWAG theory with this guy huh?) At the end of the day he hasn't been good enough and theres no reason to really believe that its going to change other than wishful thinking or if he starts to do things out side of the realm of the rules.

Fox and Zibs were better last year. Although Zibs was terrible to start and finish last seasons playoffs.

There's no space for Panarin. He needs space. It's his fault as much as it's the teams fault. We're easy to defend and predictable. Team stops skating, puck watches, does not create lanes or attack the middle/net. That's a major fundamental problem. He's gotten lazy but I think that for a lot of our players. Country Club lifestyle vs compete mindset.

There are no excuses. I see an avenue for him to improve and for the team to improve dramatically. This isn't right or wrong. It's trying to fix what's broken.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I don't blame Gallant for Panarin. I think his system or the lack thereof was a large part of the problem. No one skates or moves with a purpose. Puck movement wasn't possible with our setup.

People think Chris Kreider is slow now... that's how bad it became.


I truly do not care if Panarin floats on defense if he produces at 5v5 like he did in 2019. But I think it works hand in hand... When he's relentless and attacking he's at his best. When he's relentless and attacking, he makes nice defensive plays and is very strong on the puck/boards.

Yeah. This was all on Drury... Gallant's system works, Panarin's style works... putting icing on a loaf of bread doesn't make it a cake.

 

[bernmeister]

Silly post. Chytil’s who hit ufa would cost around what trocheck does.

Irrelevant as he is currently not ufa
his raise takes him to a hair over 4.4 beg. next season
I said almost 3 of him for 1 of bread
3 x 4.4 = 13.2
bread is 11.6+

Again do the math
attempt at false narrative does not serve you well

 

[bhamill]

Yeah. This was all on Drury... Gallant's system works, Panarin's style works... putting icing on a loaf of bread doesn't make it a cake.

I don't know, man... just what IS Gallant's system? I personally like him, but I don't see much of a system there... And Panarin's current style does NOT work in the playoffs, and that's what's at issue here.
Drury went out and got Panarin's buddies Tarasenko and Kane in hope's of getting Pan going...
Ultimately, you are right a lot of it's on Drury, he hired Gallant, he failed to get Pan going, but it's on Gallant and Panarin as well.
Changing GM's wouldn't change that outcome though. Drury added to the lineup without really subtracting from it.

 

[Hire Sather]

Irrelevant as he is currently not ufa
his raise takes him to a hair over 4.4 beg. next season
I said almost 3 of him for 1 of bread
3 x 4.4 = 13.2
bread is 11.6+

Again do the math
attempt at false narrative does not serve you well

Where are we getting the other Chytil's from?

We don't have the ability to sign two more of him because we don't have them and can't sign them as RFAs.

So it's YOUR point that is irrelevant.

 

[bernmeister]

Where are we getting the other Chytil's from?

We don't have the ability to sign two more of him because we don't have them and can't sign them as RFAs.

So it's YOUR point that is irrelevant.

You have the cap space available or able to be manufactured first.
THAT is the correct sequence.
W'o that, no adding anybody.
THAT IS BOTTOM LINE WHAT IS RELEVANT

besides, bread is a waste
as are comments that are not constructive

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

That's why I can't just blame one player and say 'he's slow and lost a step'. Everything we did was slow. No one moved their feet consistently. No one got open. No one attacked space to create space.

I don't mind when Panarin and Fox slow things down but there needs to be a variety in the attack.

Yes, if you want to let a player like Panarin slow things down and have freedom to freelance and be creative that's fine, but he has to be a freelancer inside a structured environment. Under Gallant there was no structure so at times it was a team full of freelancers.

 

[kinger8998]

Just a reminder that unless the next coach can light a fire under playoff fraud Artemi Panarin, none of these potential roster moves, or actual roster moves, will ever matter because we spend $11.6 million useless dollars on a spineless player who disappears when it matters most.

I hope to god the next coach can do it, because if he can't, it will be a long and frustrating 3 finals years of his contract. Igor dragging us to playoffs with pretender Panarin's 80-90 regular seaosn points that disappear come playoff time to lose to NJ or CAR in Round 1 or 2.

Also: hire a therapist/psychologist for Mika. Man is made of glass. The minute 1st round playoff hockey hits he gets so caughtup in the matchup of it he forgets how to play hockey. We got lucky Crosby went down in G6 last year, freeing Mika up for a game and giving him the confidence to come alive in G7, round 2 and the first 2 games of Tampa. If not for that, we were also done Round 1 last year.

 

[Good Intentions]

Going to attempt to tap into the psych side, which is the weighted intangible that is most difficult to determine - and yet the biggest factor in performance.

In regards to Panarin, I just don’t think postseason performance is that important. Mentally and physically, it’s just a bit too much for him - especially after 80 games. He’s married, comfortable, and isn’t hungry for June. He’s there to put up regular season assist totals that can justify his AAV. He knows the game he’s playing, and it’s good enough to get by on paper. Can a fire be lit at this point? I would objectively say no, and you probably have an inevitable injury lingering around the corner too.

In regards to K’Andre, he seems like a super smart guy and probably a little bit too intellectual for his own good (Kreider 2.0). With his new found fame, is his post-college instagram existence taking precedence? How much did the spitting incident hurt him? (Why is he spitting to begin with, something isn’t quite right - does not seem like him, IMO). My gut is that he’s figuring a lot out right now. Can’t say if he realizes his potential, but I would not trade him, not a chance.

 

[Good Intentions]

J.T. Miller doesn't even care about hockey. He's already spent his offseason trying to qualify for the PGA Championship. How about getting in the weight room or on the ice?

JT Miller seems like a toolbox. Straight out of the 90s, I think the league has fewer guys like him now. You won’t win with JT Miller as a leading cast guy. No chance.

 

[Machinehead]

"Where are we getting the other Chytil from?" is an amazing line out of context.

 

[HonestGabe]

Just a reminder that unless the next coach can light a fire under playoff fraud Artemi Panarin, none of these potential roster moves, or actual roster moves, will ever matter because we spend $11.6 million useless dollars on a spineless player who disappears when it matters most.

I hope to god the next coach can do it, because if he can't, it will be a long and frustrating 3 finals years of his contract. Igor dragging us to playoffs with pretender Panarin's 80-90 regular seaosn points that disappear come playoff time to lose to NJ or CAR in Round 1 or 2.

Also: hire a therapist/psychologist for Mika. Man is made of glass. The minute 1st round playoff hockey hits he gets so caughtup in the matchup of it he forgets how to play hockey. We got lucky Crosby went down in G6 last year, freeing Mika up for a game and giving him the confidence to come alive in G7, round 2 and the first 2 games of Tampa. If not for that, we were also done Round 1 last year.

Part of that is on the coach not recognizing the matchups stifled his most important forward and refusing to adjust.

This year, Hischier was glued to Zibanejad. We get home ice and the matchups and lines don't change whatsoever, allowing NJ back into the series.

A good coach would recognize he has a 2-0 cushion (AND last change!!!) and try a different mix to confuse the opposition into line mismatches.

We unfortunately didn't have a good coach. We had a stubborn one.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

this is going to help? We need a team, not a collection of superstars. McDavid has shown over & over that even he is not enough to bring a badly-managed organization to the promised land.

I mean, great, he's great, but just bringing him in & not addressing our real problems is gonna be more of the same.


Just like in the NYR front office

I agree with the premise but:

Career Playoff Stats:

McDavid - 49GP, 29G, 46A, 75P

Panarin - 57GP, 16G, 30A, 46P
Zibanejad - 58GP, 16G, 31A, 47P

He's a superstar that actually produces when it counts.

Just sayin. Pipe dream anyway.

 

[Tob]

What's going on in here?

 

[will1066]

this is going to help? We need a team, not a collection of superstars. McDavid has shown over & over that even he is not enough to bring a badly-managed organization to the promised land.

I mean, great, he's great, but just bringing him in & not addressing our real problems is gonna be more of the same.


Just like in the NYR front office

I would argue that McDavid still has a better support cast than he would here minus the G spot. Skinner failed them, but they were hapless 5v5 against Vegas.

He has already said that it's Cup or bust in Edmonton and he felt this year's team was better than the previous year's.

 

[Rongomania]

I would argue that McDavid still has a better support cast than he would here minus the G spot. Skinner failed them, but they were hapless 5v5 against Vegas.

He has already said that it's Cup or bust in Edmonton and he felt this year's team was better than the previous year's.

It would cost Bread/Fox/Laf/Chytil

And he's worth that.

Then, immediately, we become Edmonton 2022 except we're a far more cursed franchise so he'd have that working against him as well.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Irrelevant as he is currently not ufa
his raise takes him to a hair over 4.4 beg. next season
I said almost 3 of him for 1 of bread
3 x 4.4 = 13.2
bread is 11.6+

Again do the math
attempt at false narrative does not serve you well

You realize hes a 1st round pick who we had by the balls because hes an rfa, right? We have three 1st round picks a year? Right.

 

[bernmeister]

You realize hes a 1st round pick who we had by the balls because hes an rfa, right? We have three 1st round picks a year? Right.

Fact that Chytil gets more on the open market is irrelevant atp
The math is the math
4+ x 3 = just over 13
and that is like I said ballpark to bread's 11.6

And yes I prefer 3 Chytils, or even just the potential opportunity to sign 3 Chytils, instead of of bread

 

[Synergy27]

There is absolutely nothing worse in hockey than people who try to post stats and use "Even Strength" instead of 5v5 or "Powerplay instead of "5v4." All it does is show a blatant lack of understanding of what you are looking at - regardless of whether or not the point is correct.

A close second would be referring to things in a 7 game sample.

Not to mention the numbers I did post were both at 5v5 and in the regular season (because again, irrelevant playoff sample samples).

I guess I’ll just go ahead and assume that you walked away from this conversation because it is beneath you, or something.

Either that, or you’re wrong and don’t want to admit it.

Any thoughts? I remain open to any information you have.

 

[tomobson]

Just stack the top six. A stacked rangers top six is more than enough to get into the playoffs. You fix the depth issues at the TDL. There's not much you can do with this roster. It's all hoping a coach comes along that can integrate the kids into the top six and makes everyone play a structured system...including Panarin.

Panarin/Mika/Kakko
Kreider or Laf/Trocheck/Chytil

That's all you need. Moving Chytil up gives the coach more of a matchup third line which is the best you can hope for with the cap space the rangers have until the TDL rolls along. Chytil isn't going to forget how to play center. If Mika or Trocheck goes down he can easily step in for one of them.

 

[mike14]

I guess I’ll just go ahead and assume that you walked away from this conversation because it is beneath you, or something.

Either that, or you’re wrong and don’t want to admit it.

Any thoughts? I remain open to any information you have.

I don't want to get involved in whatever you guys have going on, but my understanding of why the 'stats nerds' use 5v5 and 5v4 rather than EV and PP is that it provides a 'clearer' picture over time as it eliminates the rarer events that can skew the stats. 4v4 hockey doesn't happen very often so is considered 'different', so the argument is that 5v5 provides better insights than if you include 4v4 like EV would (and if EV includes the 3v3 OT then it gets even further away from 'normal' hockey).
In the same way, including 5v3 in PP stats can skew the data based on a relatively rare event.

 

[lakeshirts37]

The more I read about Knoblauch, the more I think he’s the guy