Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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Math says otherwise.
His cap hit is crushing.
Don't be afraid to take a step backward to go 2+ steps forward.
Paulie Walnutz
HFNYR JUST AS SOFT AS NYR
- Oct 1, 2008
- 11,126
- 9,394
Again, Miller has only gotten better over the last few years while Panarin’s all around game outside of the power play has been taking a dip but hey keep up the stupid smart ass remarks. Aren’t you the one who keeps saying this team needs to be better 5 on 5?
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
JT Miller is a bum who’s been cast away from 2 teams for his antics and looked like he stopped giving a shit once he got paid from Vancouver
Stop f***ing talking about this guy
Stop f***ing talking about this guy
Panarin just needs to show up in the playoffs
It’s not like he’s not earning his contract with points
Leafs are an example of what the feeling in NY is
It’s not like he’s not earning his contract with points
Leafs are an example of what the feeling in NY is
SA16
Sixstring
J.T. Miller doesn't even care about hockey. He's already spent his offseason trying to qualify for the PGA Championship. How about getting in the weight room or on the ice?
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Panarin is outstanding at 5 on 5. Better than Miller at literally everything.
We're moving the goalposts into incorrect territory. The criticism of Panarin, and it's a valid one, is how he performed in the playoffs. Players people are suggesting they would rather have also have a track record of being bad in the playoffs.
Either way, you still have to make the playoffs. This team is firmly bottom ten at even strength offense and if you take Panarin away, they're bottom one. The idea that he's a "powerplay merchant" is a meme. You can count on your fingers, maybe one hand, the players better at 5v5 offense over the last number of years.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
You notice their ES defense rating is kind of similar but Panarin's overall defense rating comes in noticeably higher?
That's because Miller is so bad at penalty killing that his team would be better off if he didn't do it, like Panarin.
That was always true.
Remember the power kill with Kevin Hayes? 10 shorthanded goals, 10 goals against per 60 minutes.
That's because Miller is so bad at penalty killing that his team would be better off if he didn't do it, like Panarin.
That was always true.
Remember the power kill with Kevin Hayes? 10 shorthanded goals, 10 goals against per 60 minutes.
Would do this 100%, anything to get rid of Goodrow, hell if CBJ would give us a 7th to clear that cap I would do it. Nothing against Goody, he's a fine player but paid way to much for way to long
People will say he has no value but I think he does to a team with Space looking for leadership and a winner
Oh yeah, I think he has value but I also think teams know he has a limited etc not many teams have cap space so they can pinch the Rangers into trading him for as little as possible, esp because NYR need to clear the cap. Van has a similar thing with Garland. Def a useful player but (iirc) it's been reported teams willing to take on his cap are asking for a big sweetener in the deal.
The argument against Panarin is really pretty straight forward: Underwhelming in the post-season with the Rangers and his presence in the lineup has been a blocker in terms of forming a cohesive lineup.
I suspect any Panarin trade looks ugly on the surface -- the same way the Gaborik trade did -- but hopefully brings a couple of players who fall into place more appropriately on the roster.
I suspect any Panarin trade looks ugly on the surface -- the same way the Gaborik trade did -- but hopefully brings a couple of players who fall into place more appropriately on the roster.
LaffyTaffy13
Registered User
- May 10, 2022
- 1,823
- 3,136
What math? Hes played well above ppg for us. Hes our best ufa signing in franchise history
bold: I agree we are powerless as to his waiving his NMC, and that will be on his terms to where he will consent to go, assuming we can arrange something.
That said, it 111% clear he is not getting reupped here at all, let alone anything even remotely in the ballpark of what he is getting now, and as such, it behooves him to let us deal him sooner than later.
underline: disagree to a certain extent. Bread does not command anything, and if he doesn't like it, after he kisses my ass he can go home.
Kreid + Zib should remain 1st line w/Othmann added
Kid line - give a lot mo mins at 2nd line
Pushes Cuylie adding to Tro + bread to 3rd line
Again, if he doesn't like it, pucker up
Fans come first over both mgmt + players
without us there is no commercial sport
Rs are NOT yet forced to clear cap/Goodrow.
Just don't bring back the wasted assets that were our rentals
cap math
fact that we'd rather have almost 3 Chytils for the same price as 1 Panarin
Glad we've gotten to the "it's Gallant's fault that Panarin can't produce in the playoffs" portion of the offseason.
Gallant gave Panarin the freedom to do what ever the f*** he wanted (for as long as he wanted) because thats what Panarin wanted to do. Nothing changed from regular season to the post season except that teams generally tend to pick up and exploit issues their opponents have over the duration of a series. Gallant's faults with Panarin are not holding him accountable, has nothing to do with his ability to succeed because Panarin was basically given the right to play how ever the hell he wanted to play.
Those of you who want to deny that he's lost a step can continue to do so, but that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. It's a significant part of the reason why he's been so easy to neutralize, the other being that he's completely unwilling to adapt to the fact that his body just doesn't move the way that it used to. Even if he makes the necessary adjustments the guy who could carry a team is gone and is not coming back unless he decides he wants to load up on PED's.
There is no system that can really revive a declining player whose calling card is offense. The only real remedy would be to play him with guys who are better than he is but those guys aren't readily available and he makes too much f***ing money for them to do that.
Gallant gave Panarin the freedom to do what ever the f*** he wanted (for as long as he wanted) because thats what Panarin wanted to do. Nothing changed from regular season to the post season except that teams generally tend to pick up and exploit issues their opponents have over the duration of a series. Gallant's faults with Panarin are not holding him accountable, has nothing to do with his ability to succeed because Panarin was basically given the right to play how ever the hell he wanted to play.
Those of you who want to deny that he's lost a step can continue to do so, but that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. It's a significant part of the reason why he's been so easy to neutralize, the other being that he's completely unwilling to adapt to the fact that his body just doesn't move the way that it used to. Even if he makes the necessary adjustments the guy who could carry a team is gone and is not coming back unless he decides he wants to load up on PED's.
There is no system that can really revive a declining player whose calling card is offense. The only real remedy would be to play him with guys who are better than he is but those guys aren't readily available and he makes too much f***ing money for them to do that.
Doriva
Registered User
Just because he is good, doesn't mean we had to spend the money on him. In hindsight it wasn't the time and the place to lock in that much cap% for that many years, it's rare that doing things that way is successful long term. Developing fast, young, cheap scoring has been key to all of these recent analytic darling uber successful monsters like Tampa and Carolina. Finding Point/Cirelli/Svech types and putting them in the right positions and empowering them to succeed (not just jumbling them together and hoping they still thrive), making cap smart commitments on long term contracts to keep down AAV.
I hope it's still salvageable since we had our chance to do that with the #1 and #2 overalls which have been blocked by Bread. It's such a bitter sweet feeling because I love Panarin and want nothing more than for it to work out for him here, but I just don't see how we can win after stunting the kids development and fostering this country club culture that just can't play playoff hockey. We should have spent that money on finding holes that fit a vision, not just throwing the best players possible together like it's EA NHL. Maybe a good coach with an actual system can save it, but I just don't see it.
- Jan 18, 2012
- 35,202
- 53,765
That'd be my hope. He just doesn't move his legs anymore or cut to the middle. You can't isolate him though because it was a team wide issue. Although, his finishing, or the lack of it, is on him. He probably gets the most chances on the team, the puck finds him but he just couldn't put the puck in the net.
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
- Jul 9, 2007
- 19,974
- 13,634
I don't think anyone was disputing this, but it's his style of play that lots of us are tiring of. He played straight ahead and fast for the first half of the season and looked fantastic. Then Kane came to town and he was back on his bullshit, including the playoffs.
A coach like Sutter or Julien will make him worry about the other 2/3 of the ice outside of the offensive blueline to the goal and make him more disciplined. He'll be fine I think. I've softened up on trading him a bit. If a new coach gets him playing again like a two way player he can stay in my book, even if it means he scores 80 points instead of 90 to 100.
Highway robbery for the Rangers if that happens.
- Jan 18, 2012
- 35,202
- 53,765
I don't blame Gallant for Panarin. I think his system or the lack thereof was a large part of the problem. No one skates or moves with a purpose. Puck movement wasn't possible with our setup.
People think Chris Kreider is slow now... that's how bad it became.
I truly do not care if Panarin floats on defense if he produces at 5v5 like he did in 2019. But I think it works hand in hand... When he's relentless and attacking he's at his best. When he's relentless and attacking, he makes nice defensive plays and is very strong on the puck/boards.
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
- Jul 9, 2007
- 19,974
- 13,634
Let's see what happens under a coach that introduces some structure. The whole team looked slow under Gallant.
If Tom Wilson really broke him, it'll be apparent quickly if his overall play doesn't improve.
- Jan 18, 2012
- 35,202
- 53,765
That's why I can't just blame one player and say 'he's slow and lost a step'. Everything we did was slow. No one moved their feet consistently. No one got open. No one attacked space to create space.
I don't mind when Panarin and Fox slow things down but there needs to be a variety in the attack.
Kreider's lost a step too. He isn't as slow as MH wants to make him out to be but he doesn't have that lethal "if I'm even with you in a foot race for a loose puck you're f***ed" speed anymore.
It doesn't impact him as much because he's going from elite to still pretty fast instead of slightly above average to borderline average. It also helps that he's 45-50 pounds heavier than Panarin and can actually play through other people. The half step of space that Panarin can't create anymore is massive for him.
The system didn't prevent the other top guys (Kreider, Zib, Fox) from being able to perform in the playoffs under Gallant. What is it about the system that has so drastically impacted Panarin's performance but wasn't the detriment on some of the other guys? Even if you want to say that he was in a shitty environment, he has played shitty comparatively to his peers who have been in the same environment.
The excuse making for him has gotten pretty exhausting. It's been his injured line mates, him being injured (which wasn't that serious anyway), Gallant, his mental state bc of pressure (which isn't an excuse and a pretty big red flag, so much for Jovo's AlphaSWAG theory with this guy huh?) At the end of the day he hasn't been good enough and theres no reason to really believe that its going to change other than wishful thinking or if he starts to do things out side of the realm of the rules.
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