Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[GoAwayPanarin]

We can boot Trouba now if we pressure him.

Hey Jake, pick where you want to go now, or you could get the worst of the 15 teams you can't get on your NTC in a year.

It CAN happen. We just won't.

Also, damn.

Florida, Dallas, and Vegas are all no-income tax states? Hmmm. And Carolina isn't exactly a pricey region either (though it's climbing quickly).

Might be something to that.

He'd laugh because he knows that they wouldn't take a lesser deal just to spite him. Plus you'd probably get more for him a year from now than you would at this moment.

Panarin is a bigger issue and it extends beyond his lack of playoff performance.

 

[mas0764]

He'd laugh because he knows that they wouldn't take a lesser deal just to spite him. Plus you'd probably get more for him a year from now than you would at this moment.

Panarin is a bigger issue and it extends beyond his lack of playoff performance.

I would say objectively that Trouba is the far worse player and the far worse value for what he provides. I'll allow that there may be something "under the surface," with Panarin that might be more concerning and need to be excised though, whereas Trouba is a net positive in the locker room at least (though that is overrated by some).

But the thing about taking a "lesser deal," is the time value of moving Trouba now. If we get a first for him in a year but a second right now, but by moving him now we can actually give out proper extensions and correctly build a functional team for next season? I'll take right now.

 

[McRanger92]

While I'm quick to shit on what we've done.... I mean, if we win that Game 7 vs NJ we are probably not just still playing but possibly the favorite right now. I heard we are like 11-1-1 this season versus the remaining teams?

Gah.

The entire organization should be hanging their heads for the opportunity they squandered. Players, coach, GM, everyone.

That being said, this years squad wouldnt have had the heart needed to beat Florida.

 

[Trxjw]

It’s not even about a fixed amount like 10mm. It’s more like, what percent of the salary cap do your top 4 players make? And we fail that test

I mean, I agree with the idea of not signing players to exorbitant contracts, but this is a little misleading. Eichel and Barkov both make $10m on the nose and 3 of the 4 teams are from states with no state income tax so they're getting guys for less than they'd sign for elsewhere.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I would say objectively that Trouba is the far worse player and the far worse value for what he provides. I'll allow that there may be something "under the surface," with Panarin that might be more concerning and need to be excised though, whereas Trouba is a net positive in the locker room at least (though that is overrated by some).

But the thing about taking a "lesser deal," is the time value of moving Trouba now. If we get a first for him in a year but a second right now, but by moving him now we can actually give out proper extensions and correctly build a functional team for next season? I'll take right now.

Probably, but I think keeping Panarin around would be far worse for the team as a whole than keeping Trouba around for another year or 2.

Ignoring the salary difference (3.6/yr is pretty significant) Trouba's contract is the much easier one to move, especially a year from now. Not only are you not tied to a NMC, but the structure his contract is way more friendly for another team to take on. Panarin's contract is buyout proof and it would behoove them to try and find a sucker now. I can see a change in philosophy (which aside from Laviolette would be coming) helping Trouba, I don't see it helping Panarin who has shown himself to be pretty f***ing un coachable (to go along with declining skills.)

If he pulls this shit again, you're stuck with him no matter what for the remainder of his contract unless he decides to retire early. If the Rangers approach him and he tells them to F off or there are no takers thats one thing (thanks Jeff!) but if he's open to the idea and there is a taker, they need to make it happen. If he's still here next year there is no amount of good that can be done (realistically, no one is sending this team McDavid and Tkachuk at 50%) to out do the stench that he will carry with him.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I mean, I agree with the idea of not signing players to exorbitant contracts, but this is a little misleading. Eichel and Barkov both make $10m on the nose and 3 of the 4 teams are from states with no state income tax so they're getting guys for less than they'd sign for elsewhere.

It also only applies to like ten players. It’s a f***ing stupid tweet.

 

[Greg02]

Wait Mika isn't actually vegan? I feel so lied to.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Wait Mika isn't actually vegan? I feel so lied to.

You got Jovo'd.

 

[haohmaru]

he performed worse because he went from a solid top 4 D to a #6 with rotten eggs for brains, it's not hard to figure out.

"5v5 TOI: 861:51
5v5 xGF%: 55.82%
5v5 GF%: 61.53%
5v5 GF/60: 3.11

Fox is another defenseman who could play with just about anyone and still make this list. Like Makar, it’s impressive how quickly Fox established himself as an elite defenseman, going from a dark horse Calder candidate in the stacked defensive class of Makar and Quinn Hughes, to winning a Norris Trophy in just his second season. The Rangers underlying metrics have been somewhat iffy these past two seasons, but that’s not the case when Fox is on the ice, as he drives offense like few can on the back end while also being one of the best in his own end, a rare but always appreciated combination.

Lindgren has been his usual partner since Fox has entered the NHL, and there’s a reason why. Lindgren has proven to be an excellent defender in his own end, making it difficult for opponents to get good scoring chances when both of them are on the ice. Lindgren doesn’t drive offense as well as Fox, but he’s good enough that they don’t have to solely rely on Fox to move the puck up the ice and allow their opponents to target Fox to keep them neutralized. It’s created an excellent pair that can take on the the tough minutes, and allow K’Andre Miller and Jacob Trouba to roam free in lighter minutes."

I'll take this pair, with Lindgren @ 3M/season in a total clusterf*** cap hit year over trading Lindgren for _____ and trying to figure out who to shoehorn in with Trouba.

Trading Lindgren makes little sense - particularly this year.

That's "not hard to figure out" either.

FWIW, Miller-Fox (albeit in limited minutes) produced better numbers than Lindgren-Fox.

Very limited and certainly not the Miller we got vs. the Devils.

Fox was bad before Lindgren went down against Washington. If our Norris winning defenseman can't learn to play with Miller or whoever else he's paired with, he's as much a problem as Panarin is.

See above

 

[mas0764]

Probably, but I think keeping Panarin around would be far worse for the team as a whole than keeping Trouba around for another year or 2.

Ignoring the salary difference (3.6/yr is pretty significant) Trouba's contract is the much easier one to move, especially a year from now. Not only are you not tied to a NMC, but the structure his contract is way more friendly for another team to take on. Panarin's contract is buyout proof and it would behoove them to try and find a sucker now. I can see a change in philosophy (which aside from Laviolette would be coming) helping Trouba, I don't see it helping Panarin who has shown himself to be pretty f***ing un coachable (to go along with declining skills.)

If he pulls this shit again, you're stuck with him no matter what for the remainder of his contract unless he decides to retire early. If the Rangers approach him and he tells them to F off or there are no takers thats one thing (thanks Jeff!) but if he's open to the idea and there is a taker, they need to make it happen. If he's still here next year there is no amount of good that can be done (realistically, no one is sending this team McDavid and Tkachuk at 50%) to out do the stench that he will carry with him.

Maybe, but I think you are underestimating that he's a walking 90 points, and how in demand that will be, even with disappearing acts in the playoffs.

I think you can find a taker for that as long as you find a team who it's mathematically affordable for. The bigger issue is that Panarin has full NMC protection, right? So just finding a team that can take him on is the easy part. Convincing him to go is the much bigger problem because you can't leverage "Well in 11 months we can ship you to worse places."

 

[haohmaru]

The entire organization should be hanging their heads for the opportunity they squandered. Players, coach, GM, everyone.

That being said, this years squad wouldnt have had the heart needed to beat Florida.

The most disappointing thing about these playoffs wasn't losing - it was the way we lost. We lacked any kind of snarl and urgency and, certainly, direction from the top down.

After all of this talk about saving it for the playoffs, can't wait for the playoffs, more to prove, etc... it was one big f***ing dud.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

"5v5 TOI: 861:51
5v5 xGF%: 55.82%
5v5 GF%: 61.53%
5v5 GF/60: 3.11

Fox is another defenseman who could play with just about anyone and still make this list. Like Makar, it’s impressive how quickly Fox established himself as an elite defenseman, going from a dark horse Calder candidate in the stacked defensive class of Makar and Quinn Hughes, to winning a Norris Trophy in just his second season. The Rangers underlying metrics have been somewhat iffy these past two seasons, but that’s not the case when Fox is on the ice, as he drives offense like few can on the back end while also being one of the best in his own end, a rare but always appreciated combination.

Lindgren has been his usual partner since Fox has entered the NHL, and there’s a reason why. Lindgren has proven to be an excellent defender in his own end, making it difficult for opponents to get good scoring chances when both of them are on the ice. Lindgren doesn’t drive offense as well as Fox, but he’s good enough that they don’t have to solely rely on Fox to move the puck up the ice and allow their opponents to target Fox to keep them neutralized. It’s created an excellent pair that can take on the the tough minutes, and allow K’Andre Miller and Jacob Trouba to roam free in lighter minutes."

I'll take this pair, with Lindgren @ 3M/season in a total clusterf*** cap hit year over trading Lindgren for _____ and trying to figure out who to shoehorn in with Trouba.

Trading Lindgren makes little sense - particularly this year.

That's "not hard to figure out" either.



Very limited and certainly not the Miller we got vs. the Devils.



See above

But Fox does carry a significant amount of the load there. Almost exclusively type of load.

I don't want to diminish Lindgren too much because he is a good player and the best pure defensive defenseman on the team (like actually good defensively, not I block shots because I can't do anything else good.) He and Fox are a thing more so because it's ol' reliable and Gallant was afraid to try anything else for an extended period of time. We also didn't really have the horses in the stable to shake that up too much either but thats because they kept running Ben Harpur for a chunk of the season (and then replaced him with Mikkola, who isn't much of a puck mover either) out there and Lindgren-Trouba would have been an unfathomable shit show with the way that Gallant/Kelley ran things. That may be different under who ever the next hire is.

Plus if the breakouts are good enough, Trouba needs Lindgren way more than Fox does.

 

[duhmetreE]

It's not even that we have too much tied up in the top4. It's that the top4 is dead weight barring Fox

We can boot Trouba now if we pressure him.

Hey Jake, pick where you want to go now, or you could get the worst of the 15 teams you can't cover with your NTC in a year.

It CAN happen. We just won't.

Also, damn. Florida, Dallas, and Vegas are all no-income tax states? Hmmm. And Carolina isn't exactly a pricey region either (though it's climbing quickly).

Might be something to that.

Problem with this is Drury likes Trouba and if I remember correctly ( pretty sure Edge said something of the likes ) he was the one petitioning for him to be Captain even last season.

We talk about Trouba being moved for fun speculation but if any big contract is moved it's Panarin. I do not think Drury likes his game and even 'leaked' it last playoffs.

 

[Synergy27]

The most disappointing thing about these playoffs wasn't losing - it was the way we lost. We lacked any kind of snarl and urgency and, certainly, direction from the top down.

After all of this talk about saving it for the playoffs, can't wait for the playoffs, more to prove, etc... it was one big f***ing dud.

Yep. We’ve seen Ranger teams lose because of lack of talent. Now we’ve seen one lose because they didn’t have the right mindset to win. Hoping that a coach can change that but I have my doubts.

 

[SRHRangers]

I'm going to find a way to send a penny to Eichel and Barkov just to make this tweet irrelevant.

But to your second point, thought it was interesting and decided to give this a look.

Vegas:

Eichel - 10m
Stone - 9.5
Pietriangelo - 8.85
Karlsson - 5.9

Total: 34.25

Dallas:

Seguin - 9.85
Benn - 9.5
Heiskanen - 8.45
Robertson - 7.75

Total: 35.55

Florida

Barkov - 10
Tkachuk - 9.5
Ekblad - 7.5
Reinhart - 6.5

Total: 33.5

(The above are 3 of the teams that play in states with no income tax and thus, are able to pay their players less. If there is a true competitive imbalance in this league, its this. How they find a way to even shit out? f*** if I know, but hire someone who is good with numbers to figure it out.)

Carolina

Aho - 8.4625
Svechnikov - 7.75
Pacioretty - 7
Staal - 6

Total: 29.2125

Whats crazy is that they've done this with out their 2nd and 3rd highest players.

Rangers

Poison Pill Mcf***face - 11.643
Fox - 9.5
Zibanejad - 8.5
Trouba - 8

Total: 37.643!

With the Tax shit, you could probably shave off 4-6 million from this total which would be in line with those teams but regardless, MOST of those guys have either shown up or have been okay (Barkov really being the lone exception. He's been pretty bad.)

We need to boot PPMFF ASAP and Trouba as soon as that MNC turns into a NTC.

I nominate that we plagiarize Jim Cornette and deem Panarin the Kenny Omega name of Twinkle toes Mcfingerbang.

 

[RangerBoy]

Florida, Vegas and Texas are no state income tax states. Elliotte Friedman mentioned this on the Jeff Marek show this afternoon. Three of the four final four teams.

 

[duhmetreE]

Would you guys be willing to eat some cap to get a better return for Panarin? 3 years left.

 

[Mandar]

Florida, Vegas and Texas are no state income tax states. Elliotte Friedman mentioned this on the Jeff Marek show this afternoon. Three of the four final four teams.

Last year, 3 of the final four had state income taxes. As if that shit matters.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Would you guys be willing to eat some cap to get a better return for Panarin? 3 years left.

How much?

But probably yes either way.

 

[duhmetreE]

How much?

But probably yes either way.

$3M?

I wonder what that could bring us. Would STL give up their #10? I'd love a Leonard, Moore or Danielson.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

I’m sure I’m in the minority here but we should trade Miller, he regressed this year and will be too expensive and makes too many mental errors.
Get a boring stay at home guy.

Build a shutdown line and play matchups like grownup coaches do.

or we could try to get him to play better.

Orlov Fox
KAM Trouba - Hoping Trouba just had a bad 'off' year
Jones Schneider

is a strong top4.

Miller-Trouba was not good this year

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Maybe McDavid will demand a trade and be done with Edmonton?

this is going to help? We need a team, not a collection of superstars. McDavid has shown over & over that even he is not enough to bring a badly-managed organization to the promised land.

I mean, great, he's great, but just bringing him in & not addressing our real problems is gonna be more of the same.

So much impatience and short-term thinking in this thread.

Just like in the NYR front office

 

[jaywills1020]

I can understand guys being pissed at panarins lack of playoff production because he gets paid a ton of money but he was far from being the only guy who sucked. Why isn’t anyone calling for anyone else’s head in this thread? Fox, zibanejad, laf, kakko, trochek etc. they all sucked in the playoffs this year.

 

[Synergy27]

I can understand guys being pissed at panarins lack of playoff production because he gets paid a ton of money but he was far from being the only guy who sucked. Why isn’t anyone calling for anyone else’s head in this thread? Fox, zibanejad, laf, kakko, trochek etc. they all sucked in the playoffs this year.

Because they do other things than score, and were good in the playoffs last year, and make less money, and are not on the downside of their career. So, lots of reasons.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Knoblauch hasnt exactly had star prospects to develop in Hartford because none of our top guys have played there, so i can't hold that against him to much. Small sample you can say that players who did go there were better for it (Lindy, Chytil, Schneider, Cuylle, Jones) though.

You dont break the country club by hiring a coach who will tear them down, because thats not going to take on a team with NMC veterans and a group of Kids who have already been through the ringer with multiple dolt head coaches. You break the country club by hiring a coach that can outlast the parties most responsible. Everyone in the org from the top down needs to get on the same page and while Knoblauch is a hugely un-sexy hire, he'd accomplish that. I'd also be happy with Jay Leach as well, because he fits the mold of a younger guy who can communicate and understands hockey strategy beyond "playing the right way"

I'm not saying Knoblauch would be my overwhelming first choice as NYR coach, but I wouldn't be upset if he is the one hired.