Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[McRanger92]

Not a coincidence. His time in NY ruined his confidence.

Please hire Knoblauch. Clearly he is able to help these young guys with confidence. The key to actually being good is to infuse those young guys and get them to be an impact at the NHL level.

Knoblauch or bust

 

[duhmetreE]

We can talk about the lack of structure, accountability or his mental capacity to handle the playoffs, but there has been a clear deterioration of his actual physical ability which shouldn't be discounted.

There isn't a coach on the planet that is going to get him back to his prime years unless he starts saucing.

Plus hes already gotten his bag. Some people just don't have it in them to keep exerting themselves like they used to once they've hit it big. Thats a pretty gigantic mental block and I don't even necessarily blame him if he can't get over it because 99% of the population would do the same thing. Takes a very specific type of person to do that and it isn't him. This is probably a bigger issue than anyone wants to admit, someone with his upbringing should NOT have any trouble dealing with adversity.

Signing him was a dumb move and we should really be looking for ways to move on from it. I don't doubt that he can be "better" but I know that nothing that he provides moving forward will be good enough.

I just mentioned it in another post but the problem with a lot of people who 'want' to come to New York, they may have a propensity to get caught up in the 'lifestyle' rather than 'competing' and/or 'improving'. Country Club meme, like all good memes, has a semblance of truth to it.

It does take a special mind a drive to stay the course once paid. The best hockey player in the universe happens to be one of those special talents.

IMO he's not even training anymore. IMO a lot of our guys aren't training or improving. There's maybe a handful that are looking to improve physically in the offseason. *by not training, I mean with a purpose to improve and get stronger/faster/better. Everything is half assed. Do enough just to get by. Problem is the older you get, the more you have to work and look to improve.

P.S. I'm 100% with them saucing. Take some EPO and some peptides. Let our munchkin defensemen become fire hydrants.

P.P.S - I'm fine with moving Panarin. I'd be more than happy with a Panarin for Reinhart swap. It's become abundantly clear... his skillset is not something that usually has great success in the playoffs. I'd rather get a Bennett ++ at that cap hit.

 

[haohmaru]

Too lazy to look but didn't he say back before he went to CGY that he would never coach the NYR?

Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

I have the same recollection but I couldn’t find evidence anywhere.

 

[duhmetreE]

For better or worse.

Panarin for Reinhart
Goodrow to highest bidder
sign Engvall 3x3m
sign Orlov 4x6m
Sign Blueger or Acciari 2years x$1M
re-sign all RFAs.

Laffy Zibs Reinhart
Kreider Chytil Kakko
Othmann Trocheck Engvall
Cuylle Blueger/Acciari Vesey
Brodz

Orlov Fox
KAM Trouba
Lindgren Schneider
Jones

we make up for Panarins #'s by not sucking at 5v5

 

[Fitzy]

I'd give Jones a long leash next season. I really don't see any other path forward that doesn't involve adding a lot of cap that we don't want.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I just read that Lindgren is our 2nd best puck mover...

I now feel compelled to leave this thread. He's our 2nd best puck mover only if you account that his partner carries 98% of the load there.

 

[haohmaru]

I just read that Lindgren is our 2nd best puck mover...

I now feel compelled to leave this thread. He's our 2nd best puck mover only if you account that his partner carries 98% of the load there.

Fox was noticeably worse without him. Maybe leaving is a good idea.

 

[duhmetreE]

I'd give Jones a long leash next season. I really don't see any other path forward that doesn't involve adding a lot of cap that we don't want.

He's easily our best bet. I'd like it even more if he played with Trouba and bump KAM up with Fox.

KAM and Fox could get very aggressive on offense because of KAMs recovery speed.
Trouba gets a prototypical puck mover and he could ogre for both.
Lindgren Schneider can be a very strong/solid 3rd pair that can move the puck with competent structure

Fox was noticeably worse without him. Maybe leaving is a good idea.

Fox was noticeably worse post ASB.

I just read that Lindgren is our 2nd best puck mover...

I now feel compelled to leave this thread. He's our 2nd best puck mover only if you account that his partner carries 98% of the load there.

he's an absolute black hole offensively.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Fox was noticeably worse without him. Maybe leaving is a good idea.

If we're talking about when he played with Mikkola? Yeah, but that has nothing to do with being the "2nd best puck mover" on the team. Lindgren is just a better player than Mikkola.

FWIW, Miller-Fox (albeit in limited minutes) produced better numbers than Lindgren-Fox.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Fox was noticeably worse without him. Maybe leaving is a good idea.

Fox was bad before Lindgren went down against Washington. If our Norris winning defenseman can't learn to play with Miller or whoever else he's paired with, he's as much a problem as Panarin is.

 

[bhamill]

It's not about changing a series it's about filling a major need.

He's still young and under contract

I have to say, IMO, he's not worth the risk. He can't seem to stay healthy.

 

[duhmetreE]

Engvall is the one guy I really want for depth.

Knoblauch or bust

I don't get the Knoblauch love. What has he done?

I don't even know what type of system he would run. Does he understand modern day X's and O's? Or is he another David Quinn?

 

[I Eat Crow]

I mean if they move Lindgren it is potentially creating a lot of problems. They can move him next season. Still need to worry about this season. They need two new dmen and have no money to do so. They can’t pay Miller extension and now might be a good time to pull the trigger on that. The D looked really bad without Lindgren on it and they still need him for now.

This is another point I touched on. I wouldn't give Miller 7 or 8 years when we don't even know what he is yet. The move is to bridge him for 2 or 3 years at 4 or 5 million. If he progresses, you pay him then when the cap is up. If he stagnates and settles in as a good #3 or #4 as he is now and there's still interest in bringing him back, you bring him back at his bridge cap number or a slight increase.

Its foolish to give him 7 or 8 years banking on him being a top pairing defenseman at 6 or 7 million a year when he's not that player yet.

 

[RangerBoy]

What did Brooks write today? His usual gibberish?

Why new contracts for K’Andre Miller and Alexis Lafreniere are so tricky for Rangers

Regardless of the identity of the Rangers’ next head coach, the cap issues confronting GM Chris Drury remain daunting.

nypost.com

I read up the part of a bridge deal for Miller. $3M-$4M.

 

[MrAlmost]

Miller is our second best puck moving defensemen. Also, I still do not believe this unit is not capable of moving the puck well through the D zone into the neutral and O zone. I think that the fact that the forwards were constantly much too far away from the defense created more issues than the actual abilities of the defense. I, also, think that a reallocation of resources, so to speak, will yield better puck moving results.

First, a new system that is much more structured and modern, whereby the forwards come lower into the defensive zone for breakouts and thus the puck is supported in waves as a 5 man unit vs the pickup hockey stretch pass horseshit we had will make the most difference.

Second, reshuffle the pairs and stop letting players complain about who they play with. Miller-Fox, Jones-Trouba, Lindgren-Schneider. More balance and the third pair can now be used to take minutes off of the other 3 guys, Miller, Trouba and Fox.

The pieces are there and the players are capable. We just need to use them properly. That is the toughest part though. So hard to find a coach that will work. It must be a nervous experience.

 

[CLW]

We can talk about the lack of structure, accountability or his mental capacity to handle the playoffs, but there has been a clear deterioration of his actual physical ability which shouldn't be discounted.

There isn't a coach on the planet that is going to get him back to his prime years unless he starts saucing.

Plus hes already gotten his bag. Some people just don't have it in them to keep exerting themselves like they used to once they've hit it big. Thats a pretty gigantic mental block and I don't even necessarily blame him if he can't get over it because 99% of the population would do the same thing. Takes a very specific type of person to do that and it isn't him. This is probably a bigger issue than anyone wants to admit, someone with his upbringing should NOT have any trouble dealing with adversity.

Signing him was a dumb move and we should really be looking for ways to move on from it. I don't doubt that he can be "better" but I know that nothing that he provides moving forward will be good enough.

Panarin pushed himself hard to get where he is. We all know his 'from rags to riches' story. People say trade Lindgren before the miles catch up, well... Panarin is in the same boat. He is very far from the CBJ player now, sadly. To his credit I do think he seriously tried to get to improve his fitness this season, especially compared to 21-22.

 

[duhmetreE]

What did Brooks write today? His usual gibberish?

Why new contracts for K’Andre Miller and Alexis Lafreniere are so tricky for Rangers

Regardless of the identity of the Rangers’ next head coach, the cap issues confronting GM Chris Drury remain daunting.

nypost.com

I read up the part of a bridge deal for Miller. $3M-$4M.

If Panarin is moved, we could look to sign him long term.

If not, it'd be around the Dobson contract 3x4. Maybe 2 years with a smaller AAV.

 

[duhmetreE]

Miller is our second best puck moving defensemen. Also, I still do not believe this unit is not capable of moving the puck well through the D zone into the neutral and O zone. I think that the fact that the forwards were constantly much too far away from the defense created more issues than the actual abilities of the defense. I, also, think that a reallocation of resources, so to speak, will yield better puck moving results.

First, a new system that is much more structured and modern, whereby the forwards come lower into the defensive zone for breakouts and thus the puck is supported in waves as a 5 man unit vs the pickup hockey stretch pass horseshit we had will make the most difference.

Second, reshuffle the pairs and stop letting players complain about who they play with. Miller-Fox, Jones-Trouba, Lindgren-Schneider. More balance and the third pair can now be used to take minutes off of the other 3 guys, Miller, Trouba and Fox.

The pieces are there and the players are capable. We just need to use them properly. That is the toughest part though. So hard to find a coach that will work. It must be a nervous experience.

I do like those pairings and think it's the way to go....

on a side note, a lot of top defenders get ridden hard in the Playoffs. Fox needs to get to the point where he doesn't look like he has red-ass with a pants full of shit and strapped to a parachute when skating in the Playoffs.

People get offended when you say he needs to get in better condition and it's for these reasons. We're not talking about game 30 in the regular season or even game 82 for that matter. We need our top players to be their best when it matters in game 100+.

Heiskanen played 32 minutes last night.

 

[RangerBoy]

MSN

www.msn.com

Someone posted the Brooks story without a paywall.

Dobson contract for Miller.

Two year bridge for Lafreniere. Brooks brought Dach's 4 year contract at $3.36M. What's the number for two years?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Fox was bad before Lindgren went down against Wsshington. If our Norris winning defenseman can't learn to play with Miller or whoever else he's paired with, he's as much a problem as Panarin is.

I mean he doesn't have to even "learn."

the team's xGF and xGA both went in positive directions when he was paired with Miller vs Lindgren. Miller-Fox had an xGF% of 61% with an xGA/60 of under 2 (xGF for those 2 was 3.15.) Again, this is in 1/8th of the time that Lindgren-Fox spent together, but it's a pretty significant jump up regardless.

Lindgren is a good player. Fox can and has performed better with other partners.

Now I'll say this, I don't think the previous system did our D any favors in terms of getting the puck out of their own end. Our forwards were rarely in a position to help and it usually took them whipping the puck through a layer of defense just to get the puck onto the stick of a teammate. Thats asking A LOT of your defensemen. We sucked at transitions, but I've seen some teams out there with inept puck movers who look better because their system vs what was ran here was like climbing stairs vs climbing stairs with a 100lb weight vest.

I have every bit of confidence that with the right approach, all of our defensemen will improve there (Lindgren included.) I would still like to add another pure PMD/OFD, mostly since having a really good one on your 3rd pair is pretty essential in tilting the ice when your lesser forwards are out there and you don't have to worry about them beefing shit if they happen to be out there with better players.

I wouldn't mind giving Lindgren and Trouba a look with a different coach. Theoretically it wouldn't work (and maybe it won't) but if you can simplify the breakouts perhaps it would. Trouba was decent there 2 years ago (believe it or not, actually the second best on the team during the RS of 2021-22) and Lindgren can handle the defensive load there.

Miller is our second best puck moving defensemen. Also, I still do not believe this unit is not capable of moving the puck well through the D zone into the neutral and O zone. I think that the fact that the forwards were constantly much too far away from the defense created more issues than the actual abilities of the defense. I, also, think that a reallocation of resources, so to speak, will yield better puck moving results.

First, a new system that is much more structured and modern, whereby the forwards come lower into the defensive zone for breakouts and thus the puck is supported in waves as a 5 man unit vs the pickup hockey stretch pass horseshit we had will make the most difference.

Second, reshuffle the pairs and stop letting players complain about who they play with. Miller-Fox, Jones-Trouba, Lindgren-Schneider. More balance and the third pair can now be used to take minutes off of the other 3 guys, Miller, Trouba and Fox.

The pieces are there and the players are capable. We just need to use them properly. That is the toughest part though. So hard to find a coach that will work. It must be a nervous experience.

The Issue I'd have with Jones-Trouba is that neither of them are strong defenders.

Trouba has gotten a reputation as being this strong defender but thats never been the case. Hes our weakest pure defender in the top 4.

I'm of the opinion that they should just stick Jones-Schneider together and let them try to figure it out.

 

[McRanger92]

Engvall is the one guy I really want for depth.

I don't get the Knoblauch love. What has he done?

I don't even know what type of system he would run. Does he understand modern day X's and O's? Or is he another David Quinn?

Seems like he understands coaching strategy anecdotally from his stops at Erie in the OHL and Hartford. Id rather have an organization guy who is familiar with the young players and is on the same page as Drury, rather than a retread caveman coach who will do nothing but yell at the players as they tune him out. That might work for a season but we'll be crying for a new coach by New Year's Day 2025

 

[Savant]

Miller is our second best puck moving defensemen. Also, I still do not believe this unit is not capable of moving the puck well through the D zone into the neutral and O zone.

There is zero evidence that back this up

 

[McRanger92]

I mean he doesn't have to even "learn."

the team's xGF and xGA both went in positive directions when he was paired with Miller vs Lindgren. Miller-Fox had an xGF% of 61% with an xGA/60 of under 2 (xGF for those 2 was 3.15.) Again, this is in 1/8th of the time that Lindgren-Fox spent together, but it's a pretty significant jump up regardless.

Lindgren is a good player. Fox can and has performed better with other partners.

Now I'll say this, I don't think the previous system did our D any favors in terms of getting the puck out of their own end. Our forwards were rarely in a position to help and it usually took them whipping the puck through a layer of defense just to get the puck onto the stick of a teammate. Thats asking A LOT of your defensemen. We sucked at transitions, but I've seen some teams out there with inept puck movers who look better because their system vs what was ran here was like climbing stairs vs climbing stairs with a 100lb weight vest.

I have every bit of confidence that with the right approach, all of our defensemen will improve there (Lindgren included.) I would still like to add another pure PMD/OFD, mostly since having a really good one on your 3rd pair is pretty essential in tilting the ice when your lesser forwards are out there and you don't have to worry about them beefing shit if they happen to be out there with better players.

I wouldn't mind giving Lindgren and Trouba a look with a different coach. Theoretically it wouldn't work (and maybe it won't) but if you can simplify the breakouts perhaps it would. Trouba was decent there 2 years ago (believe it or not, actually the second best on the team during the RS of 2021-22) and Lindgren can handle the defensive load there.




The Issue I'd have with Jones-Trouba is that neither of them are strong defenders.

Trouba has gotten a reputation as being this strong defender but thats never been the case. Hes our weakest pure defender in the top 4.

I'm of the opinion that they should just stick Jones-Schneider together and let them try to figure it out.

The young D are the strength of the team. Once the next coach comes up with a system that isnt "flail at the puck or throw it off the glass to get it out of the zone" all 6 will look much better. Especially guys like Miller & Jones, who will actually be allowed to skate the puck out rather than try to thread passes to the neutral zone to our flat footed forwards. Shocking that didnt lead to good 5v5 numbers

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Makes me feel a bit better that our 1st round pick we sent for Vlad is now worth at best the 29th overall pick.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

People get offended when you say he needs to get in better condition and it's for these reasons. We're not talking about game 30 in the regular season or even game 82 for that matter. We need our top players to be their best when it matters in game 100+.

Heiskanen played 32 minutes last night.

Fox played 31+ in game 7 vs the Pens last year (this game went into OT, but barely.)

Here is the truth - None of us really know what kind of condition these guys are in. @Machinehead brought up a good point the other day - Our team is perennially at the bottom of man games missed during the RS. That isn't done by accident and would lend it self against the argument that this team is poorly conditioned. The only long term injury that I can remember that a player had to deal with in the last few years was Blais ACL tear, and that was because Subban is a dirty f***.

I feel like this just becomes a crutch anytime a player goes through a rough stretch or has a bad game when the truth is that they just had a bad stretch or a bad game.

McAvoy played like a clown vs Florida. Makar (who plays at altitude so he HAS to be in great physical condition) looked like fried ass for big portions of the Seattle series (especially game 7.) These guys aren't out of shape, they just had a 7 game stretch where they weren't at their best.

Orlov looked worse than all of them in Rd1. He doesn't suck or have shitty conditioning either.