Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[bleedblue94]

Dorian pumping the tires of a guy he drafted? Shocking, shocking turn of events. Laff was the undisputed, consensus 1OA.

rangers fans trying to defend the pick that has been oneof the two most disappointing 1oa picks in two decades? "shocking turn of events..."

 

[bhamill]

Missing Cozens Boldy and Caufield for Kakko and that's just forwards.

They've scored more, true. But none of them are world beaters yet either. Only Stutzle and Hughes have REALLY broken out from 2019-2020 drafts. I expect the next couple of years we will see more players coming into their own. And I think '21 & '22 draftees will be similar though maybe to a slightly lesser extent.

 

[bleedblue94]

Unanimous and Consensus are two different things. Laf was the CONSENSUS 1OA. Could there be a scout here and there that had Byfield or Stutzle at 1OA? Sure. But Laf was the consensus.

I know, look at the post I replied to. That post said "unanimous," I was arguing against that statement. You are trying to educate the wrong person...

 

[bhamill]

I know, look at the post I replied to. That post said "unanimous," I was arguing against that statement. You are trying to educate the wrong person...

Ah, I apologize then. My mistake. I hadn't noticed the word "unanimous" used before your post.

 

[bleedblue94]

Just because some people were fighting for Stutzle doesn't mean they would have picked him if they chose first. Very easy to say after the fact. I remember the talk pre draft and yes, Laf was the unanimous choice among fans and draftniks. I stand by what I said. Every single GM would have taken Laf first.

I NEVER suggested that ott would have taken stutz first. I was commenting against the narrative and your statement that laff was the "unanimous" choice for 1oa pick, bc he wasnt. @bhamill gave the vocabulary education a couple posts above for the people that need it, and I see you started using the right term after that...

Ah, I apologize then. My mistake. I hadn't noticed the word "unanimous" used before your post.

Weird bc that post would show in the quote if you read that first for perspective on what i was actually replying to (people jumping on replies instead of first reading what the reply was actually aimed at is what leads to so much bickering on here), but to help you out here it is by puckluck3043:

Figures you would find this but the facts remain that Laf was the unanimous 1OA pick and every other GM would have done the same damn thing. People were talking pre draft that Hughes and Kakko were 1 and 2 and it was very close and whoever wasn't picked 1st was going 2nd. I'm not a Gorton fan but he did absolutely nothing wrong with these picks.

 

[bhamill]

I NEVER suggested that ott would have taken stutz first. I was commenting against the narrative and statement that laff was the "unanimous" choice for 1oa pick, bc he wasnt. @bhamill gave the vocabulary education a couple posts above for the people that need it...


Weird bc that post would show in the quote if you read that first for perspective on what i was actually replying to (people jumping on replies instead of first reading what the reply was actually aimed at is what leads to so much bickering on here), but to help you out here it is by puckluck3043:

Figures you would find this but the facts remain that Laf was the unanimous 1OA pick and every other GM would have done the same damn thing. People were talking pre draft that Hughes and Kakko were 1 and 2 and it was very close and whoever wasn't picked 1st was going 2nd. I'm not a Gorton fan but he did absolutely nothing wrong with these picks.

As I said, I didn't notice it. That's on me. And probably not the weirdest thing I'll do today either. Hahaha.

 

[Fitzy]

The option with Laf would have been to trade down due to positional need (At the time, center)

But we likely would have gone Byfield if that was the case.

 

[bleedblue94]

And if there was a guy who was mentioned as an alternative #1, it was Byfield

That was only bc nyr needed a center and the canadian media was pushing a canadian to replace a canadian as the 1oa. if stuz was from ontario he would have been jumped so hard for his skill and vision. this isnt really worth arguing about, my comment was just stating that laf was not a unanimous choice for 1oa, he was the consensus but not unanimous. there are people in the hockey circles that would not have taken him 1oa.

The option with Laf would have been to trade down due to positional need (At the time, center)

But we likely would have gone Byfield if that was the case.

i remember the draft and when trade ideas came up people here laughed at 3+5 for 1.

a LOT of posters said they would have to "think" about brady +3 + 5 for the pick but still prob wouldnt do it. this was, is, and will remain laughable.

 

[haohmaru]

Missing Cozens Boldy and Caufield for Kakko and that's just forwards.

Better than Kakko? I’m not on that train.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

rangers fans trying to defend the pick that has been oneof the two most disappointing 1oa picks in two decades? "shocking turn of events..."

I'm not trying to defend the pick but I'm not gonna blame the organization for selecting him either.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I'm not trying to defend the pick but I'm not gonna blame the organization for selecting him either.

Exactly. There are plenty of awful stupid picks the org has made over the years but Laf (and Kakko) is not one of them. It’s just a combo of bad luck and bad development.

 

[bleedblue94]

I'm not trying to defend the pick but I'm not gonna blame the organization for selecting him either.

i dont hate the pick necessarily, i hate the decisions that were made after they won the lottery. it isnt like it just snuck up on them that they had kreider and panarin already. what i also blame the org for 100% is that they have turned a blind eye to the importance of quality skaters for far too long. unfortunately laffy is the worst skater by a mile among those top picks. it is just the way the draft and lottery fell together...

 

[LOFIN]

what i also blame the org for 100% is that they have turned a blind eye to the importance of quality skaters for far too long.

Here's a mind blowing fact for the fellas here: skating speed is overrated. You don't need to skate fast to play fast. The fastest teams in the league have plenty of players who are not that fast. But guess why they play fast? Because everyone knows where they need to be in a given time, thus they don't slow down. Right place at the right time, ability to make passes at speed. That's the key.

If you need fast skaters to become a fast team, you are doing it wrong. It's inefficient. You need to be on the move, instead of stop-start. Which is unfortunately how our team seems to do breakouts.

 

[eco's bones]

A 21 year old with 3 NHL seasons putting up nearly 40 points with very little power play time might not be elite but he's still a very good player and portends well for the future. There are very few of them around the league. Stutzle is a better skater and a center (which helps) and plays for a team that put him in better situations to produce more offense. Well we could have dumped a couple of Mika, Panarin, Kreider and Lafrenire and Kakko might by 55 point guys now just with regular power play time.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

i dont hate the pick necessarily, i hate the decisions that were made after they won the lottery. it isnt like it just snuck up on them that they had kreider and panarin already. what i also blame the org for 100% is that they have turned a blind eye to the importance of quality skaters for far too long. unfortunately laffy is the worst skater by a mile among those top picks. it is just the way the draft and lottery fell together...

I find it unfathomable that out of the three of them one can't switch to the right side. If I blame the organization for anything, it's that

 

[Flan the incredible]

View attachment 731559

how is this possible?

 

[bleedblue94]

I find it unfathomable that out of the three of them one can't switch to the right side. If I blame the organization for anything, it's that

players can be stubborn, this org has a history of caving to what players want.

what i also blame the org for 100% is that they have turned a blind eye to the importance of quality skaters for far too long.

Here's a mind blowing fact for the fellas here: skating speed is overrated. You don't need to skate fast to play fast. The fastest teams in the league have plenty of players who are not that fast. But guess why they play fast? Because everyone knows where they need to be in a given time, thus they don't slow down. Right place at the right time, ability to make passes at speed. That's the key.

If you need fast skaters to become a fast team, you are doing it wrong. It's inefficient. You need to be on the move, instead of stop-start. Which is unfortunately how our team seems to do breakouts.

Where in my post did I say anything about "fast" skaters? 10/10 effective puck movement is better than fast skaters, but quality skaters that are strong on edges, strong w their stance/balance, agile skaters, ect are extremely important. goes back to what this org is and isnt doing for skill development. skating is a skill

 

[TGWL]

how is this possible?

I think the 44 game against Detroit was worse when they got beat 15-0, nearly 16-0 as the puck hits the net right after the buzzer.

 

[Raspewtin]

Better than Kakko? I’m not on that train.

Cozens had 68 points, Boldy had 63, and Caufield had 36 in 46.

What would put you on that train?

They've scored more, true. But none of them are world beaters yet either. Only Stutzle and Hughes have REALLY broken out from 2019-2020 drafts. I expect the next couple of years we will see more players coming into their own. And I think '21 & '22 draftees will be similar though maybe to a slightly lesser extent.

They are all 60+ point players or paced above that

The day Kakko scores 60 points I will eat my shoe.

 

[bhamill]

They are all 60+ point players or paced above that

The day Kakko scores 60 points I will eat my shoe.

Hahahaha. You think Kakko NEVER ever hits 60? Or do you like shoes? Whatever. I wasn't arguing any of the "who is better" stuff, I am talking about the COVID draftees taking a bit to break out. The only two from 2019 and 2020 are Hughes and Stutzle. Some others, like those you mentioned have had ups and downs, and looked good last season, but haven't really broken out.

 

[TGWL]

Hahahaha. You think Kakko NEVER ever hits 60? Or do you like shoes? Whatever. I wasn't arguing any of the "who is better" stuff, I am talking about the COVID draftees taking a bit to break out. The only two from 2019 and 2020 are Hughes and Stutzle. Some others, like those you mentioned have had ups and downs, and looked good last season, but haven't really broken out.

I think when you have 102 points in 128 games you can successfully say the player has broken out. Unless your predictions for12th overall, Boldy, was more than point per game pace, which he hasn't reached yet.

 

[bhamill]

I think when you have 102 points in 128 games you can successfully say the player has broken out. Unless your predictions for12th overall, Boldy, was more than point per game pace, which he hasn't reached yet.

I think we are having a semantics issue over "breaking out.". 0.8 ppg is not a world beating total. It's very good, I'm happy for him, but it's not exactly stunning. If you want to talk bang for your draft position buck, he's doing very well topping 60 points in his D+4, but it's nothing mind blowing in and of itself.

 

[Rongomania]

I think we are having a semantics issue over "breaking out.". 0.8 ppg is not a world beating total. It's very good, I'm happy for him, but it's not exactly stunning. If you want to talk bang for your draft position buck, he's doing very well topping 60 points in his D+4, but it's nothing mind blowing in and of itself.

And don't forget that Kak is a two way beast and grows more in that direction with every moment of ice time. Are there any forward draftees from his class whom have an excellent (& growing) 2 way game and 40/40+ 5v5/ES points? He is impressive, albeit low-key because many here and within our fanbase in general are Verruca Salt-levels of impatient.

Kid will be fine. Dylan Cozens gimme a break, dude wouldn't have done jack shit on this team the way it's been constructed for hot young C's/W's.

 

[bhamill]

And don't forget that Kak is a two way beast and grows more in that direction with every moment of ice time. Are there any forward draftees from his class whom have an excellent (& growing) 2 way game and 40/40+ 5v5/ES points? He is impressive, albeit low-key because many here and within our fanbase in general are Verruca Salt-levels of impatient.

Kid will be fine. Dylan Cozens gimme a break, dude wouldn't have done jack shit on this team the way it's been constructed for hot young C's/W's.

Yeah, which players we prefer and how we gauge them can be subjective so I wasn't looking to do comparisons. My point was more general about rate of development for players from that draft and the next especially (and to a lesser extent '21 and '22). I'm certainly not upset that we have Kakko rather than the other three mentioned. When all is said and done I think he will still end up the second most valuable player from that draft after Hughes.

 

[haohmaru]

Cozens had 68 points, Boldy had 63, and Caufield had 36 in 46.

What would put you on that train?


They are all 60+ point players or paced above that

The day Kakko scores 60 points I will eat my shoe.

Cozens had 50 even strength points averaging 16:30 of ice time
Kakko had 37 in 15:18 of ice time.

Cozens is a center. Kakko is a two way RW.

I'm not seeing Cozens as anything other than even with Kakko at this point when you consider their entire game.

Kakko will hit 60 if Laviolette isn't Gallant 2.0. This year.