Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[bhamill]

Ok you guys have to start reading all the posts in a convo before you premature ejaculate the reply button.

Well you offhandedly “maybe-d” Fox and aged him a year. Hahah.

 

[Machinehead]

A hockey team is like a Rubik's cube.

There's not as much going on as people think they're is. The thing most people don't know about cubes is that the centers not only don't move, but they're all the same piece. All six centers lie on the same core. Around the core are only 20 unique edge pieces.

Edge pieces are actually entirely removable and interchangeable. You can even take them off one cube and put them on another cube. As long as the core is healthy, the cube swivels around the core.

You know what would happen if Lafreniere, Kakko, and Schneider, without massive development, became the center? If you've never seen a Rubik's cube explode after one turn, it's oddly satisfying.

 

[Machinehead]

Okay. Not sure what I did here, but
”HE’s 27 NOW. like Fox is 25 NOW. And I didn’t say Vesey, Wheeler, Goodrow, et al. Everyone I mentioned is an important, likely long term piece: core players.” Is the important part. Hahaha.
and EVRY team will have a lot of birthdays this coming season, not just us. Hahaha.

Yes and because of the birthdays, this is their age 26 and age 28 seasons. That's how that works.

 

[Machinehead]

We've unintentionally created an easy path for ourselves.

If this team doesn't win the Cup with Laviolette (or legit come close - limping through two rounds with a 39% corsi doesn't count) tear it the f*** down again and actually commit to it this time.

 

[bleedblue94]

I love how "obtuse" has become the new Webster's Dictionary word of the month that's making it rounds on message boards everywhere, kind of how "hyperbolic" did a couple years ago. Curious what the next one might be ha

 

[bhamill]

Yes and because of the birthdays, this is their age 26 and age 28 seasons. That's how that works.

Maybe? I thought your age starting the season is what the standard was, so then no, it would be their age 25 and 27 seasons. Regardless they were referencing CURRENT ages of teams and this possible one year discrepancy doesn’t change that I said FAIRLY young.
What made us “older“ was the addition of cheap veteran fill ins that aren’t part of our long term plans. That doesn’t change even if we make every player in the league one year older.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

saw this on twitter. This person seems to have legit info/sources on Oilers. Predicted Connor Brown signing in Edmonton days before July 1. Maybe we are bringing back Tarasenko

 

[LOFIN]

Maybe we are bringing back Tarasenko

With what money? If he would accept league minimum on a short term deal like Wheeler, it would be done already.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

saw this on twitter. This person seems to have legit info/sources on Oilers. Predicted Connor Brown signing in Edmonton days before July 1. Maybe we are bringing back Tarasenko

...He's gonna make less than half of what Goodrow makes?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Hughes was worse than Laf by EVERY metric, except being faster and looking pretty at times in their D+1s. His numbers, excrept pp scoring, are ALL worse. And that’s probably only because Laf didn’t play at all on the pp. But NJ gave him minutes, pp1 time and responsibility regardless and suffered the rookie damage. They made the investments that we did not. And in case I need to say it, I’m not saying Laf would be scoring like Hughes… but he’d most certainly be significantly farther along in his development.
And I hope it goes without saying that I respect your opinion as well.

Respectfully disagree. I don't believe Lafs improvement nor lack of is about not playing 18-19 minutes a game vs his 15 minutes a game. I believe real significant improvements are made in the offseason and practices not games.

 

[Machinehead]

saw this on twitter. This person seems to have legit info/sources on Oilers. Predicted Connor Brown signing in Edmonton days before July 1. Maybe we are bringing back Tarasenko

Seems like a fit. McDavid has already demonstrated that he can succeed with wingers that are good at nothing but scoring. Not mentioning any names.

 

[Barnaby]

It goes against the development philosophy of pretty much every single team that has had success with it since the beginning of time.

Was the dumbest thing ever. If he hasn't learned from it he will do damage in SJ as well. Already saw it a bit with William Eklund last year.

That’s just absolutely false. Guys work their ways up the lineup regularly. Not every rookie is being force fed PP time over better players. Not every rookie is starting on the top line or top pairing. That’s an HF fallacy.

 

[RGY]

That is insanely cheap for Kane.

 

[LOFIN]

That is insanely cheap for Kane.

The guy just had a hip surgery, who knows what he can do when he comes back. And if he wants to play for a contender, he needs to play for cheap because all of them are in a cap jam.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

saw this on twitter. This person seems to have legit info/sources on Oilers. Predicted Connor Brown signing in Edmonton days before July 1. Maybe we are bringing back Tarasenko

Fake.

 

[haohmaru]

The bolded played the bulk of their careers (or their entire careers) in a league where there was no Cap (and in Fatso's case, won his 3 cups in a league where there wasn't one.)

MAF is not elite.

I'd hesitate to call Quick elite but I'll run with it. He made 1.8 mill when the Kings won their first cup. His big contract had just kicked in when they won the 2nd one. That contract ate up a lower percentage of the cap than the one Sorokin just signed. This contract by in large ended up yielding a pretty poor ROI all together (good or pretty good for half of it, bad for the 2nd half, elite for none. Those latter years are the issue I'd have with a long term contract for Igor.)

Vasy and like Quick he won his 2nd cup in the first year of his big extension. Time will tell how the rest of the contract plays out. He's got a better chance at having a successful contract since he was still in his mid 20's when that deal kicked in. Sorokin will be 28 when his deal kicks in, Quick was 28 when his last contract started.

Igor will be 29 when hes a UFA. I don't think I need to tell you how these long contracts for goalies in their late 20's (or later) play out.

Even Hank, who was the epitome of consistency only returned 2 good years on his last contract (out of 6, bout out of the 7th.) After that it was a mixed bag of pretty good to pretty bad.

Yes, my selections were limited to multiple Cup winners over the past 30 ish years.

MAF is a sure fire first ballot HOF'er with 3 Cups. He's elite.

Hanks last contract also included 3ish years of "the letter", where the organization basically caved in and fielded shit teams in front of him. Let's be fair here.

Vasi - you're going "see how the rest of his contract pans out"? He's won multiple Cups already. It's a win already.

Quick - again, multiple Cups, won a Cup on his "big" contract. It's a win already.

What's the goal here? To win the Cup or evaluate an 8 year contract? Either way, if you sign the goalie and you won the Cup you won the contract.

And, yes, I get where everyone is coming from with this. I really do. Do I want to hand Igor some ludicrous contract that sucks 12% of the cap just for him? No. Will he sign a team friendly deal? I don't know.

I don't think signing him and fielding a good team HAVE to be mutually exclusive. Maybe they do if he wants his Bob The Goalie (who made the Final on that big contract) Home Run Deal.

 

[RGY]

The guy just had a hip surgery, who knows what he can do when he comes back. And if he wants to play for a contender, he needs to play for cheap because all of them are in a cap jam.

Which is why we should be all over it. Low Risk, very high reward.

Let’s see if that twitter handle is even legitimate, because everything was indicating he was signing after the season starts.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

I’ll believe any news on Patrick Kane when I see it. I can see him pulling a Mats Sundin and waiting to sign a deal later in the season with a contender.

Also with the flat cap this is just a bad year to be a UFA.

 

[huerter]

That is insanely cheap for Kane.

Pardon?

 

[Barnaby]

...He's gonna make less than half of what Goodrow makes?

Crazy world we live in. I’d bring back PK for that. If he’s healthy he’s got to be good for at least 60 points. I’d prefer Tarasenko but sounds like he’s probably getting a lot more $$$

 

[Machinehead]

That’s just absolutely false. Guys work their ways up the lineup regularly. Not every rookie is being force fed PP time over better players.

It depends, and I think it's more nuanced than playing them or not playing them.

Yes, if better players exist, you should have to usurp those players.

The thing is, producing is good enough and the idea of playing a complete, mature game is outdated.

If you look at analytics around the league, young players aren't playing defense anymore. The league as a whole doesn't give a damn about defense, that's why scoring is through the roof.

Quinn seemed very into doing it "the right way" here if you were young. Meanwhile he let a vet in Erik Karlsson just run around the ice.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Didn’t Friedman just say he was close to a 2 year deal with Edmonton? Not sure this one is reliable

 

[Barnaby]

It depends, and I think it's more nuanced than playing them or not playing them.

Yes, if better players exist, you should have to usurp those players.

The thing is, producing is good enough and the idea of playing a complete, mature game is outdated.

If you look at analytics around the league, young players aren't playing defense anymore. The league as a whole doesn't give a damn about defense, that's why scoring is through the roof.

Quinn seemed very into doing it "the right way" here if you were young. Meanwhile he let a vet in Erik Karlsson just run around the ice.

Stats get you paid too which I’m sure is a big part of it league-wide.

With that said, I do agree with developing 2 way players, but there’s got to be a give and take. You don’t want to stifle creativity too much either. You didn’t draft AL or KK with the idea they had a ton of defensive potential on the wing. You drafted them to hopefully be game changers at some point.

 

[bhamill]

Respectfully disagree. I don't believe Lafs improvement nor lack of is about not playing 18-19 minutes a game vs his 15 minutes a game. I believe real significant improvements are made in the offseason and practices not games.

I think we both know each other are respectful even in disagreement. Se don’t feel you have to say it to me explicitly. I get you, buddy. These things, again, are not mutually exclusive. It’s ALL of it. Do we think that Laf and Kakko are the outliers for top picks ONLY because they aren’t working hard enough in the off season (something we don’t really KNOW for sure and we don’t know how hard non disappointing top picks are working) or could it also be their usage? Which we KNOW diverges from how non disappointments get used early on?
I’m not saying off season isnt important, I’m saying ice time, linemates, pp time, responsibility, and patience for mistakes are important as well.

 

[mas0764]

It's gonna be time to rebuild again before we know it.