Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[Boris Zubov]

Years and years of zero meaningful prospects coming through the system, and a lot of overpaid journeymen. Very little to get excited about. Teams were bad from the crease on out.

Absolutely, but I think we can erase the narrative that a better goalie gets those teams into the playoffs.

 

[Avery16]

Tough time to be a fan. The Blackburn injury was devastating.

Don’t forget the Cloutier trade.

 

[Barnaby]

Absolutely, but I think we can erase the narrative that a better goalie gets those teams into the playoffs.

Probably not. I didn’t say that. It was a glaring hole for awhile though that I’m not looking to repeat by turning the team over to some overpaid retread to save 2 or 3 million in cap space which will probably go to a bottom 6 forward or bottom pairing defenseman instead of a franchise goalie. I’m not looking to be on the EDM or TML goalie carousel. I’d rather pay Igor and go with a cheap backup whether that be Garand or a vet.

 

[Barnaby]

Don’t forget the Cloutier trade.

I always liked Cloutier.

Can’t forget Corey Hirsch.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Absolutely, but I think we can erase the narrative that a better goalie gets those teams into the playoffs.

I will admit they weren't as close as I hoped in most seasons but there were a couple of seasons I think having an elite goalie instead of poor goaltending would have made the difference. For example in a season they were in the running and missed the playoffs by 5 points. You don't think having a all star level goalie all season would have made a 5 point difference?

 

[alkurtz]

It’s nothing like a franchiseQB. That’s center.

That's not quite how I meant it: when you have a franchise goalie, you can concentrate on addressing other weaknesses. It's something that you just don't have to worry about, year after year. It adds stability to a franchise, and makes everybody better. It's peace of mind. Remove Shesty from this team and replace him with an average goalie. Do we even make the playoffs? Unlikely. Add him to Edmonton or Toronto and what do you have? Serious Cup contenders.

Of course, a QB is an "initiator" and a goalie is a "reacter," so the analogy does not really hang true. No doubt that a dominant #1 center gives you a heads up on opponents but a #1 center might only be on the ice for 1/3 of a game and in that time, might be in the offensive zone 60% of the time. But even Matthews or McDavid cannot carry a team single handedly to a Cup. And over the four rounds of playoffs, anywhere from 16 to 28 games, even the top centers are not going to be at their best every night. Yes, average goalies do win Cups, and I happen to think that goalies today are better (much better) than at any time in my 60 years of being a fan, but still, tell me that you would not want to go into a playoff round without a top tier goalie?

But again, I meant that having a franchise goalie is the heart of any team and allows for a GM to shore up other areas. Remove Shesty, or Henrik from all our great teams of a decade ago, and we are nowhere as successful as we were.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I will admit they weren't as close as I hoped in most seasons but there were a couple of seasons I think having an elite goalie instead of poor goaltending would have made the difference. For example in a season they were in the running and missed the playoffs by 5 points. You don't think having a all star level goalie all season would have made a 5 point difference?

That was 02-03. Looking at the goalie stats, Dunham lead the team with 19 wins, so in this one particular season, a goalie could've made a difference. However, the rest of those teams missed the the 8th spot anywhere from 10-20 points on average. And it felt like they were all out the race by Christmas. Even if an elite goalie carried those teams into the first round, what were they actually going to achieve? First round exits or maybe advance to the next round via a giant upset? In reality, it just would've extended the theme of this organization building from the goal out.

Bringing this all back to our future roster plans, I'd hope the goal is to assemble much stronger teams than those wretched dark ages monstrosities. In which case, having an elite goalie doesn't need to drag them to the playoffs. In a cap league, I'm ok with a goalie in the 8-15 range while spending Igor's money on someone who can put the puck in the net consistently. Especially when I can't see him signing for less than $9M.

 

[MrAlmost]

You guys are conveniently forgetting about the D corps we were rolling out in those days, which was the REAL reason we fell apart year after year. Poor Brian Leetch was playing 30 minutes a night trying to will a team into the playoffs with a bunch of retreads, young guys in over their heads, overpaid free agent has beens & guys breathing their last NHL gasps.

Here's a list of guys getting major minutes on those teams....

97-98
Doug Lidster
Geoff Smith
Bruce Driver
Eric Cairns
Jeff Finley

98-99
Peter Popovic
Chris Tamer
Ruman Ndur
Stan Neckar

99-00
Sylvain Lefevbre
Stephane Quintal (may be the poster child of free agent bust signings)
Kevin Hatcher's ghost
Rich Pilon

00-01
Pilon
Lefevbre
Brad Brown
Dale Purinton
Alexei Gusarov
Mike Mottau

01-02
Bryan Berard
Vladmir Malakhov
Dave Karpa
Lefevbre
Purinton
Igor Ulanov

02-03
Tom Poti
Darius Kasparitis
Malakhov
Lefevbre
Purinton
Boris Mironov
Cory Cross

03-04
Greg DeVries
Joel Bouchard
Poti
Malakhov
Purinton
Mironov
Kasparitis

Reading this list & it's pretty obvious that even though our goalie play could've been better, not a goalie on the planet is playing his best hockey behind this rag tag bunch. Nor is a better goalie willing any of these teams to the playoffs.

Man. Look at that bunch. I forget just how brutal the 98 to 2000 stretch is. I remember Popovic was good...on Montreal. Haha

They tried to start moving in the right direction after that, but Mottau couldn't really cut it and Gusarov was a hundred years old at that point. Didn't event last the whole year.

There is like 1 guy from each year that was a capable D man, and if we could have just kept that one and added the next we might have done alright. 01-02 and 02-03 weren't great, but they were better. Maybe, the only year I remember that might have made the postseason with a better goalie, was that 01-02 team. But even then they were a glass cannon, and not even a great one. Theo was no longer what he was, the concussions were finally slowing down Lindros and the others up front were getting older and losing some magic.

On a side note, no one can tell me that Petr Nedved isn't one of the best Rangers, if not the best forward at least, from that time. He got a bad rap for being constantly stapled to shit rosters. He genuinely loved being a Ranger and played hard when he was here. All situations too. He was a lot like Z right now. I hope Z doesn't get misremembered the way Nedved is.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Man. Look at that bunch. I forget just how brutal the 98 to 2000 stretch is. I remember Popovic was good...on Montreal. Haha

They tried to start moving in the right direction after that, but Mottau couldn't really cut it and Gusarov was a hundred years old at that point. Didn't event last the whole year.

There is like 1 guy from each year that was a capable D man, and if we could have just kept that one and added the next we might have done alright. 01-02 and 02-03 weren't great, but they were better. Maybe, the only year I remember that might have made the postseason with a better goalie, was that 01-02 team. But even then they were a glass cannon, and not even a great one. Theo was no longer what he was, the concussions were finally slowing down Lindros and the others up front were getting older and losing some magic.

On a side note, no one can tell me that Petr Nedved isn't one of the best Rangers, if not the best forward at least, from that time. He got a bad rap for being constantly stapled to shit rosters. He genuinely loved being a Ranger and played hard when he was here. All situations too. He was a lot like Z right now. I hope Z doesn't get misremembered the way Nedved is.

Nedved was definitely solid. Not great but a legit second line center who was underrated by many Rangers fans. In those days I think we had some years with a top 10 or so offense but our defense/goalies would be 24-30 range.

 

[UnparalledPark]

If that is offseason training, I approve

Panarin was behind the wheel Steering.

 

[Boris Zubov]

That's not quite how I meant it: when you have a franchise goalie, you can concentrate on addressing other weaknesses. It's something that you just don't have to worry about, year after year. It adds stability to a franchise, and makes everybody better. It's peace of mind. Remove Shesty from this team and replace him with an average goalie. Do we even make the playoffs? Unlikely. Add him to Edmonton or Toronto and what do you have? Serious Cup contenders.

Of course, a QB is an "initiator" and a goalie is a "reacter," so the analogy does not really hang true. No doubt that a dominant #1 center gives you a heads up on opponents but a #1 center might only be on the ice for 1/3 of a game and in that time, might be in the offensive zone 60% of the time. But even Matthews or McDavid cannot carry a team single handedly to a Cup. And over the four rounds of playoffs, anywhere from 16 to 28 games, even the top centers are not going to be at their best every night. Yes, average goalies do win Cups, and I happen to think that goalies today are better (much better) than at any time in my 60 years of being a fan, but still, tell me that you would not want to go into a playoff round without a top tier goalie?

But again, I meant that having a franchise goalie is the heart of any team and allows for a GM to shore up other areas. Remove Shesty, or Henrik from all our great teams of a decade ago, and we are nowhere as successful as we were.

Without realizing it, you're advocating the point some of us are trying to make. We're tired of having middling rosters being masked by elite goalies. Teams like that almost NEVER win it all. Igor carried them as far as any goalie could in '22. That's not a formula for winning it all. Of all the underdogs in the past 30-35 years who made Finals runs on the backs of their goalie play, they all seem to fall short. The only 2 I recall winning it all were Montreal in '86 & '93.

It's one thing to say the Rangers aren't a playoff team without Igor. but Toronto & Edmonton are currently perennial playoff teams already with shit goalies. Both teams are more talented up front than we are, but both having glaring weaknesses on D. Igor would be very appealing to either of them, and yes he would make them instant favorites. But the cap also changes the story for them trying to fit his money in.

 

[Cmox]

WOLF PACK SIGN FORWARD SAHIL PANWAR TO ONE-YEAR CONTRACT | Hartford Wolf Pack

www.hartfordwolfpack.com

Panwar was signed by the Pack

 

[MrAlmost]

WOLF PACK SIGN FORWARD SAHIL PANWAR TO ONE-YEAR CONTRACT | Hartford Wolf Pack

www.hartfordwolfpack.com

Panwar was signed by the Pack

Good signing to take a chance on, but man there are a lot of forwards down there. Haha

 

[yrrebbor]

You guys are conveniently forgetting about the D corps we were rolling out in those days, which was the REAL reason we fell apart year after year. Poor Brian Leetch was playing 30 minutes a night trying to will a team into the playoffs with a bunch of retreads, young guys in over their heads, overpaid free agent has beens & guys breathing their last NHL gasps.

Here's a list of guys getting major minutes on those teams....

97-98
Doug Lidster
Geoff Smith
Bruce Driver
Eric Cairns
Jeff Finley

98-99
Peter Popovic
Chris Tamer
Ruman Ndur
Stan Neckar

99-00
Sylvain Lefevbre
Stephane Quintal (may be the poster child of free agent bust signings)
Kevin Hatcher's ghost
Rich Pilon

00-01
Pilon
Lefevbre
Brad Brown
Dale Purinton
Alexei Gusarov
Mike Mottau

01-02
Bryan Berard
Vladmir Malakhov
Dave Karpa
Lefevbre
Purinton
Igor Ulanov

02-03
Tom Poti
Darius Kasparitis
Malakhov
Lefevbre
Purinton
Boris Mironov
Cory Cross

03-04
Greg DeVries
Joel Bouchard
Poti
Malakhov
Purinton
Mironov
Kasparitis

Reading this list & it's pretty obvious that even though our goalie play could've been better, not a goalie on the planet is playing his best hockey behind this rag tag bunch. Nor is a better goalie willing any of these teams to the playoffs.

This list makes me very depressed.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Montoya sucked, but there was no one really taken immediately afterwards that ended up with a fantastic career. I guess if we had to go goalie, we should've gone with Dubnyk or Schneider...but we'd probably end up trading him anyway since Henrik was around the corner.

I remember I was at a game (I want to say, Rangers vs. Sabres?) when Bruce Driver scored the go-ahead goal with like less than a minute to go

 

[kovazub94]

Without realizing it, you're advocating the point some of us are trying to make. We're tired of having middling rosters being masked by elite goalies. Teams like that almost NEVER win it all. Igor carried them as far as any goalie could in '22. That's not a formula for winning it all. Of all the underdogs in the past 30-35 years who made Finals runs on the backs of their goalie play, they all seem to fall short. The only 2 I recall winning it all were Montreal in '86 & '93.

It's one thing to say the Rangers aren't a playoff team without Igor. but Toronto & Edmonton are currently perennial playoff teams already with shit goalies. Both teams are more talented up front than we are, but both having glaring weaknesses on D. Igor would be very appealing to either of them, and yes he would make them instant favorites. But the cap also changes the story for them trying to fit his money in.

Do you think FL was good enough to go on its run without Bobrovsky? Do you think Vegas wins SC if Hill doesn't play out of his mind and so would you stick any random goalie and HOPE he plays out of his mind? How many series Vasilevsky stole for TBL that ultimately led to 2SC and 3 appearances? You stick an average goalie there and even if they lucked out in one of such runs there's no way they get to accomplish all that. And obviously ALL NHL GMs are dumb by giving elite goalies 1C level contracts when they get a chance.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Do you think FL was good enough to go on its run without Bobrovsky? Do you think Vegas wins SC if Hill doesn't play out of his mind and so would you stick any random goalie and HOPE he plays out of his mind? How many series Vasilevsky stole for TBL that ultimately led to 2SC and 3 appearances? You stick an average goalie there and even if they lucked out in one of such runs there's no way they get to accomplish all that. And obviously ALL NHL GMs are dumb by giving elite goalies 1C level contracts when they get a chance.

We don't need to agree, but you're going out of your way to stick words in my mouth with the bolded. When did I say anything close to that?

Anyone who watched Vegas' entire run isn't coming away with the conclusion that Aidan Hill was the guy who put them over the top. They were doing just fine with Brossoit until he got hurt. Regardless their combined cap hit was less than $4M which proves the point you don't need to pay a goalie $9M to win it all.

Vasilevsky is an outlier, a guy actually is an elite goalie who was absolutely a difference maker. However his team literally had to cheat the cap in order for them to win it all.

Bob was great & unfortunately that 10 day break completely killed his momentum. Would've been interesting to see if he could've stolen the Finals, but it's just more proof that I want a strong roster & a hot goalie more than I want an average roster with an elite goalie dragging them around.

 

[RangerBoy]

August 4 hearing date for Scanlin

 

[RangersFan1994]

Budding Barbashev On His Year in Review & What's Up Next | New York Rangers

Maxim Barbashev reflects on career-high season with the Moncton Wildcats and watching his brother win his second Stanley Cup in June

www.nhl.com

Sign him already

 

[UnSandvich]

You can afford to skip out on elite goaltending when you know your highest paid players can and will play up to their pay grades in the playoffs. When you can’t rely on your top players to earn their keep in the playoffs, then you have to pay extra to balance that out in net

 

[NYR Viper]

If there is one position to keep well stocked to keep the cap hit low it’s goalie. Draft a goalie late every year and see what hits.

 

[haohmaru]

This list makes me very depressed.

It should make you happier about the current roster. See? Glass half full.

 

[haohmaru]

Without realizing it, you're advocating the point some of us are trying to make. We're tired of having middling rosters being masked by elite goalies. Teams like that almost NEVER win it all. Igor carried them as far as any goalie could in '22. That's not a formula for winning it all. Of all the underdogs in the past 30-35 years who made Finals runs on the backs of their goalie play, they all seem to fall short. The only 2 I recall winning it all were Montreal in '86 & '93.

It's one thing to say the Rangers aren't a playoff team without Igor. but Toronto & Edmonton are currently perennial playoff teams already with shit goalies. Both teams are more talented up front than we are, but both having glaring weaknesses on D. Igor would be very appealing to either of them, and yes he would make them instant favorites. But the cap also changes the story for them trying to fit his money in.

I mean, this all sounds like it makes sense but having a great goalie and a good team don't have to be mutually exclusive things.

And, let's see, Igor is traded at a deadline, hits UFA, and signs with the Penguins or whoever else in the Metro. Do you want to go through him EVERY YEAR for the next 8 years? That's a secondary risk you're taking.

 

[duhmetreE]

If there is one position to keep well stocked to keep the cap hit low it’s goalie. Draft a goalie late every year and see what hits.

I'm all about that life.... just not in the 2nd round with other talent on the board.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I mean, this all sounds like it makes sense but having a great goalie and a good team don't have to be mutually exclusive things.

Paying your goalie a bunch of money makes it much harder to do the second thing.