Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[Avery16]

This is part of what’s going the other way for Debrincat.

 

[Avery16]

He got a 1st line winger for a conditional 1st, some belly button lint, and a paperclip.

To be fair that paperclip put up 20 goals last season and 30 goals his rookie season.

 

[Boris Zubov]

The problem with this theory is you need to have a team good enough to be able to cover for their goalie for the strategy to work.

No doubt, but that goal is easier to attain with Igor's money allotted to a top 6 forward instead.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You don’t trade Igor to save 2 million on cap. I’m not trading a Vezina just to go overpay someone like Goodrow. The only way you move Igor is if you find a young kid like Garand who can do a similar job for a fraction of the cost.


Top players usually demand full term. 7 or 8 years. You hold the line at 5 or 6 years and you might be letting a great player walk.

We missed the playoffs for years with bad goaltending. I prefer not to go that road again.

 

[Boris Zubov]

plenty of teams have won super bowls with average QBs. Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Jim Hostetler, all 3 Redskins QBs, Brad Johnson, Nick Foles, etc etc have all won super bowls.

Flacco was a very good QB in his prime & clearly a franchise QB, but even so today's NFL is completely QB centric. Since 2000 the list of non franchise QBs to win is Dilfer, Johnson, & Foles. So since 2003, that's 1 QB in 20 years. I'll take my chances with an average goalie over a backup QB.

 

[effen]

Paying Debrincat $7.9M is probably market value for a 5'8 guy who's not gonna drive play and isn't good defensively, regardless of goals scored.

Don't think there's much value added. It's alright.

I'd rather have Kubalik @ 2.5M than DeBrincat at 7.9.

 

[Boris Zubov]

We missed the playoffs for years with bad goaltending. I prefer not to go that road again.

When?

 

[NickyFotiu]

When?

The 7 years before Lundy. In fact before people knew Lundy as a rookie we were ranked 31st in that preseason.

 

[Boris Zubov]

The 7 years before Lundy. In fact before people knew Lundy as a rookie we were ranked 31st in that preseason.

That's revisionist history. Saying the Dark Ages Rangers were an elite goalie short of making the playoffs is a giant over simplification. Not buying this at all.

 

[TominNC]

So then everyone can bitch when we lose 5-4 with some mediocre goalie. I’ll take the Vezina candidate

 

[NickyFotiu]

That's revisionist history. Saying the Dark Ages Rangers were an elite goalie short of making the playoffs is a giant over simplification. Not buying this at all.

I believe many of those years came down to not having good goaltending. We had a handful of them. Richter was good till injuries. Blackburn also injured. Dunham bad. Cloutier traded.vMcClean old. Vally? Labarbera? Markenen? 3-4 of those years we had 70-80 points and had a chance but we couldn't stop a beach ball at times. We went out and signed Kevin Weeks while bringing Lundy over. Thankfully that worked.

 

[Barnaby]

That's revisionist history. Saying the Dark Ages Rangers were an elite goalie short of making the playoffs is a giant over simplification. Not buying this at all.

Watching the likes of Guy Hebert post Richter and pre-Lundy was a disaster. They certainly had plenty of other issues, but it was a glaring hole. It led to the knee jerk Dunham trade. There’s a reason when Hank showed up that he took the market by storm. No one wants to give Igor the Bobrovsky deal, but it would be foolish to let him walk unless you have someone ready to go in the pipeline. I have to think that there’s a deal that can be worked out.

 

[Barnaby]

Saying you can win a cup without a true #1 goalie is the same as saying you can win without a #1 defenseman. I’m sure it’s been done, but I’m not trading Adam Fox because we don’t need him. I think people have forgotten how bad it can be watching poor goalie play. Wait until you’re paying a guy like Campbell or Murray $5 million to suck.

 

[Larrys13]

plenty of teams have won super bowls with average QBs. Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Jim Hostetler, all 3 Redskins QBs, Brad Johnson, Nick Foles, etc etc have all won super bowls.

Jim Hostettler was the best

 

[NickyFotiu]

Jim Hostettler was the best

Jeff was pretty good as well

 

[Avery16]

Watching the likes of Guy Hebert post Richter and pre-Lundy was a disaster. They certainly had plenty of other issues, but it was a glaring hole. It led to the knee jerk Dunham trade. There’s a reason when Hank showed up that he took the market by storm. No one wants to give Igor the Bobrovsky deal, but it would be foolish to let him walk unless you have someone ready to go in the pipeline. I have to think that there’s a deal that can be worked out.

That period was a shitshow, but Hebert did what he could at that stage of his career. Watching Kirk McLean was weird.

 

[Barnaby]

That period was a shitshow, but Hebert did what he could at that stage of his career. Watching Kirk McLean was weird.

Tough time to be a fan. The Blackburn injury was devastating.

 

[mike14]

The dr

Saying you can win a cup without a true #1 goalie is the same as saying you can win without a #1 defenseman. I’m sure it’s been done, but I’m not trading Adam Fox because we don’t need him. I think people have forgotten how bad it can be watching poor goalie play. Wait until you’re paying a guy like Campbell or Murray $5 million to suck.

There seems to be a bit more of a difference. Since 05-06 you could argue that only 3 teams have won without a 'true #1 D', being:
- Carolina with Hedican
- Pens in 16-17 with no clear #1
- Caps with Carlson (depends how high you rate him)

List of Cup winning goalies (played the most games in the playoffs) over the same span:
Ward, Giguere, Osgood, Fleury x2, Neimi, Thomas, Quick x 2, Crawford x 2, Murray, Holtby, Binnington, Vasilevsky x 2, Kuemper, Hill

List of runners-up:
Roloson, Emery, Fleury x 2, Osgood, Leighton, Lunongo, Brodeaur, Rask x 2, Lundqvist, Bishop, Jones, Rinne, Khodobin, Price, Vasilevsky, Bobrovsky

A balanced team with an average goalie can go a long way, but goalies carrying unbalanced teams seems a lot rarer.

 

[mike14]

Tough time to be a fan. The Blackburn injury was devastating.

Hes still my all time favorite NYR prospect

I know the plan was that Richter would be around to be the mentor for him, but once Richter went down in 00-01 (noting that by this stage we'd missed the playoffs 3 straight with him) the team really needed to trade for an actual plan that would allow them to bridge across instead of just ignoring things after drafting Blackburn until Richter went down again...

Bloody Slats...

 

[duhmetreE]

This is part of what’s going the other way for Debrincat.

View attachment 727573

I think I just saw him in Sound of Freedom

 

[NickyFotiu]

Hes still my all time favorite NYR prospect

I know the plan was that Richter would be around to be the mentor for him, but once Richter went down in 00-01 (noting that by this stage we'd missed the playoffs 3 straight with him) the team really needed to trade for an actual plan that would allow them to bridge across instead of just ignoring things after drafting Blackburn until Richter went down again...

Bloody Slats...

I think Richter really had a tough time with some injuries especially a concussion. We did draft Al Montoya later on. I think he was picked right after (drum roll) Blake Wheeler

 

[Barnaby]

I think Richter really had a tough time with some injuries especially a concussion. We did draft Al Montoya later on. I think he was picked right after (drum roll) Blake Wheeler

Lindbum before Lindbum.

I think he was another Allaire pick.

I remember wanting Frolik or Olesz

 

[mike14]

I think Richter really had a tough time with some injuries especially a concussion. We did draft Al Montoya later on. I think he was picked right after (drum roll) Blake Wheeler

He went down in 00-01 in game 45 (and I'm pretty sure he either started, or played, in every game up to that point!) which was sometime in Feb, so we limped to the end with McLean and Herbert.
We drafted Blackburn in July 01 and had him on the roster for 01-02 despite him being 18 and nowhere near ready.
When Mike went down in Nov 02-03 we traded for Dunham in Dec because we were out of ideas
Montoya was then taken in 04 because of Blackburn's injury. Stupid pick, but there wasn't much else there anyway.

There didn't seem to be any goalie plan beyond 'pray that Richter can heal' and 'hope some kid can become a savior right out of the gate).
It would have been interesting to see where everything ended up falling if we didn't have Hank slow-burning in the background

 

[Boris Zubov]

I believe many of those years came down to not having good goaltending. We had a handful of them. Richter was good till injuries. Blackburn also injured. Dunham bad. Cloutier traded.vMcClean old. Vally? Labarbera? Markenen? 3-4 of those years we had 70-80 points and had a chance but we couldn't stop a beach ball at times. We went out and signed Kevin Weeks while bringing Lundy over. Thankfully that worked.

Watching the likes of Guy Hebert post Richter and pre-Lundy was a disaster. They certainly had plenty of other issues, but it was a glaring hole. It led to the knee jerk Dunham trade. There’s a reason when Hank showed up that he took the market by storm. No one wants to give Igor the Bobrovsky deal, but it would be foolish to let him walk unless you have someone ready to go in the pipeline. I have to think that there’s a deal that can be worked out.

You guys are conveniently forgetting about the D corps we were rolling out in those days, which was the REAL reason we fell apart year after year. Poor Brian Leetch was playing 30 minutes a night trying to will a team into the playoffs with a bunch of retreads, young guys in over their heads, overpaid free agent has beens & guys breathing their last NHL gasps.

Here's a list of guys getting major minutes on those teams....

97-98
Doug Lidster
Geoff Smith
Bruce Driver
Eric Cairns
Jeff Finley

98-99
Peter Popovic
Chris Tamer
Ruman Ndur
Stan Neckar

99-00
Sylvain Lefevbre
Stephane Quintal (may be the poster child of free agent bust signings)
Kevin Hatcher's ghost
Rich Pilon

00-01
Pilon
Lefevbre
Brad Brown
Dale Purinton
Alexei Gusarov
Mike Mottau

01-02
Bryan Berard
Vladmir Malakhov
Dave Karpa
Lefevbre
Purinton
Igor Ulanov

02-03
Tom Poti
Darius Kasparitis
Malakhov
Lefevbre
Purinton
Boris Mironov
Cory Cross

03-04
Greg DeVries
Joel Bouchard
Poti
Malakhov
Purinton
Mironov
Kasparitis

Reading this list & it's pretty obvious that even though our goalie play could've been better, not a goalie on the planet is playing his best hockey behind this rag tag bunch. Nor is a better goalie willing any of these teams to the playoffs.

 

[Barnaby]

You guys are conveniently forgetting about the D corps we were rolling out in those days, which was the REAL reason we fell apart year after year. Poor Brian Leetch was playing 30 minutes a night trying to will a team into the playoffs with a bunch of retreads, young guys in over their heads, overpaid free agent has beens & guys breathing their last NHL gasps.

Here's a list of guys getting major minutes on those teams....

97-98
Doug Lidster
Geoff Smith
Bruce Driver
Eric Cairns
Jeff Finley

98-99
Peter Popovic
Chris Tamer
Ruman Ndur
Stan Neckar

99-00
Sylvain Lefevbre
Stephane Quintal (may be the poster child of free agent bust signings)
Kevin Hatcher's ghost
Rich Pilon

00-01
Pilon
Lefevbre
Brad Brown
Dale Purinton
Alexei Gusarov
Mike Mottau

01-02
Bryan Berard
Vladmir Malakhov
Dave Karpa
Lefevbre
Purinton
Igor Ulanov

02-03
Tom Poti
Darius Kasparitis
Malakhov
Lefevbre
Purinton
Boris Mironov
Cory Cross

03-04
Greg DeVries
Joel Bouchard
Poti
Malakhov
Purinton
Mironov
Kasparitis

Reading this list & it's pretty obvious that even though our goalie play could've been better, not a goalie on the planet is playing his best hockey behind this rag tag bunch. Nor is a better goalie willing any of these teams to the playoffs.

Years and years of zero meaningful prospects coming through the system, and a lot of overpaid journeymen. Very little to get excited about. Teams were bad from the crease on out.