Speculation: Roster Building Thread VI (2019/2020)

[LiveLongandProspal]

Will we claim someone ala Jeff Woywitka?

 

[doomscroll]

We're one injury away from the Nick Jones express, buddy.

Never mind, it had everything to do with negativity.

 

[Edge]

In short, in a world of unknowns, I think Lemieux and Andersson are simply less familiar to Quinn than Howden and Fast.

I think the third and fourth line are fairly interchangeable, and that Quinn wants to see if the preseason can carry over the regular season.

No one's been anointed with any designation or being punished. Right now I see a situation where it's about line combinations and seeing if momentum continues.

Again, maybe in November or December it's a different story. But right now, I don't think there's a deeper meaning to what we see.

 

[NYR]

I agree with you that Lias was the better player during the preseason. Who knows? He may be centering the 3rd line in a few weeks. We shall see.

I know I'm coming off like it's a bigger deal than it actually is.
I'd just like to see the more common sense type moves made from the start.
We shall see.

 

[NYR]

I think the coach is almost always going to slot in the player he's seen more of at the start of the season, especially when he has concerns about both.

Now, if we're in November and Andersson is outplaying Howden by a wide-margin, then I think we have a legit beef.

I just don't think we're there yet.

And for the record, I don't think Howden had a bad preseason. Let's not overlook a game where he was the Rangers entire scoreboard.

Yeah, I'm not hating on Howden or anything but some of the decision making that DQ has made throughout TC/PS has me a bit puzzled

 

[DanielBrassard]

I think the coach is almost always going to slot in the player he's seen more of at the start of the season, especially when he has concerns about both.

Now, if we're in November and Andersson is outplaying Howden by a wide-margin, then I think we have a legit beef.

I just don't think we're there yet.

And for the record, I don't think Howden had a bad preseason. Let's not overlook a game where he was the Rangers entire scoreboard.

It also shouldn't be overlooked how poor he was last season and how poor his results were in the Pre-Season other than a face-off win that lead to a secondary assist and a re-direction on the PP. I'm not saying this to doom Howden to a career of failure, but to show that he just hasn't shown he belongs just yet but continues to get certain treatment from the coach the he doesn't really deserve. Maybe the reason he's here and Chytil is not or Kravtsov is not is because the Rangers have higher hopes for those two and think where Howden is is where he will eventually end up. Fine, that is an understandable argument I suppose although doesn't speak great of his future abilities if so.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, I'm not hating on Howden or anything but some of the decision making that DQ has made throughout TC/PS has me a bit puzzled

I thought Howden started strong and ended decent last year. He was abysmal from November to February, but also seemed to lose rhythm with his first injury scare.

If he can level off the peaks and valleys, he'll be fine.

But I also think there's a tendency to pit the young centers against each other. Be it Andersson vs. Chytil, Howden vs. Chytil, Andersson vs. Howden, people have a tendency to want to take sides. Some of that is people have their favorites and they want to see "their guy" succeed. Some of it is a desire to have picked the right guy, or to have been on-board at the ground floor. Some of it is frustrations with the coach and so we channel that through the kids --- and make no mistake, they're all still very much kids.

But at the end of the day, it's not about rooting for one over the other. Ideally, it's hoping they all make it for the Rangers, in one capacity or another. If that means someone moves to the wings, so be it. Traded for another piece we need? So be it. But even if the latter happens, you want said player to maximize their value.

 

[Tawnos]

Enough NHL players to fill out the roster on opening night, let's start with that.

Oh... so your totally unreasonable position here is that we don't have 13 NHL forwards on the roster. Are they all great for the role they'll be playing? No, but they're all NHL players... and that hardly matters in a transitional year like this.

 

[Edge]

It also shouldn't be overlooked how poor he was last season and how poor his results were in the Pre-Season other than a face-off win that lead to a secondary assist and a re-direction on the PP. I'm not saying this to doom Howden to a career of failure, but to show that he just hasn't shown he belongs just yet but continues to get certain treatment from the coach the he doesn't really deserve. Maybe the reason he's here and Chytil is not or Kravtsov is not is because the Rangers have higher hopes for those two and think where Howden is is where he will eventually end up. Fine, that is an understandable argument I suppose although doesn't speak great of his future abilities if so.

How is he treated?

He gets third and fourth line minutes with third and fourth line players. Sometimes he gets less than 10 minutes, sometimes more. Overall he gets about 14 minutes and change.

He's not taking a slot from Kravtsov. He didn't take time from Chytil. We wouldn't Chytil on the third or fourth line anyway right now.

Should he have been sent down to the AHL at some point last time? You bet.

But I feel like it very much becomes a pile-on situation and like most kids who weren't even old enough to drink, I saw both good and bad.

 

[Machinehead]

Oh... so your totally unreasonable position here is that we don't have 13 NHL forwards on the roster. Are they all great for the role they'll be playing? No, but they're all NHL players... and that hardly matters in a transitional year like this.

Howden is certainly not an established NHL player and he didn't really do enough in camp to make the team.

He's here because Chytil was worse and there's nobody else.

 

[MrPodz]

If we are going off avs last tenure as a point of our rebuild (or i guess the stepan trade), then we have one year where we sold off our team, another year where we sold some off. Now is our evaluation period, kids getting older and we need some to break through either this year or next. Because of this uncertainty, the roster and lines themselves will be fluid. What you see now is not what you will see in november or december. If it is, it means the kids arent ready to step up. Quinn isnt an idiot, he's trying to find what works and right now he has the time to. Panarin will take off a lot of pressure and I feel like people forget we have breadman or just dont acknowledge it because we arent used to having a gamebreaker thats in his prime. Our defense will improve and i think it was visible with how much better our pk was this preseason. I expect the team to shift and change, but focus on how the players react and thats when we know what we got.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Oh yeah this makes total sense:

 

[Edge]

Howden is certainly not an established NHL player and he didn't really do enough in camp to make the team.

He's here because Chytil was worse and there's nobody else.

Wait, didn't have 2 points in 3 games?

Didn't he actually have a point per game pace than Andersson? And more production than any center other than Andersson --- including Zibanejad, Strome, and every other candidate?

I feel like these are important aspects that are missing from these conversations.

It's not just that Chytil sucked. It's that Howden out-performed quite a few other players as well. Was he amazing no? But to imply he didn't make the team, based on the performances of some other players, leaves out a lot of details.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Oh yeah this makes total sense:

I'm more surprised they broke up Andersson and Names.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Yes, I will acknowledge that we have a bunch of AHL players that could conceivably be playing in the NHL. That was kind of the point.

So, you’re saying the rebuild is not over, there’s still work to be done and the playoffs are not likely. Very good assessment.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Wait, didn't have 2 points in 3 games?

Didn't he actually have a point per game pace than Andersson? And more production than any center other than Andersson --- including Zibanejad, Strome, and every other candidate?

I feel like these are important aspects that are missing from these conversations.

It's not just that Chytil sucked. It's that Howden out-performed quite a few other players as well. Was he amazing no? But to imply he didn't make the team, based on the performances of some other players, leaves out a lot of details.

Dude, Howden was very unimpressive this preseason and a phantom second assist and a deflection goal (in a game where he looked like a high schooler btw) doesn't change that. Lias' garbage goals weren't what made him impressive this preseason either.

And he was bad for about 5 months last season and the coach clearly didn't seem to notice. So I think people are a little on edge with him in the sense that he hasn't looked to have improved much if at all from his poor second half (2/3's?) last season and he's getting placed higher up in the lineup and with better linemates than a player who outplayed him this preseason (and IMO outplayed him the last solid month of last season as well).

 

[Machinehead]

Wait, didn't have 2 points in 3 games?

Didn't he actually have a point per game pace than Andersson? And more production than any center other than Andersson --- including Zibanejad, Strome, and every other candidate?

I feel like these are important aspects that are missing from these conversations.

It's not just that Chytil sucked. It's that Howden out-performed quite a few other players as well. Was he amazing no? But to imply he didn't make the team, based on the performances of some other players, leaves out a lot of details.

It isn't about production. We've seen him put up points in bunches before. It's a meaningless sample.

He evidently hasn't improved aspects of his game which needed improvement.

If he hits a wall again like he did last year, there's no safety net. Nobody is taking that spot from Howden. Just like last year when he was painfully bad for 60 games and kept getting led to the slaughter night after night.

 

[Edge]

Dude, Howden was very unimpressive this preseason and a phantom second assist and a deflection goal (in a game where he looked like a high schooler btw) doesn't change that.

And he was bad for about 5 months last season and the coach clearly didn't seem to notice. So I think people are a little on edge with him in the sense that he hasn't looked to have improved much if at all from his poor second half (2/3's?) last season and he's getting placed higher up in the lineup and with better linemates than a player who outplayed him this preseason (and IMO outplayed him the last solid month of last season as well).

No, you see that's not how it works. We don't get to award style points because he tip-toed through 4 players to make a tape to tape pass, or that he shot a laser of a goal from 10 feet out.

An assist is an assist, and a goal is a goal. I don't care if it goes in off his stick, his head, his arm, or his ass. So long as it goes in. For years we bitched and moaned about people not going to the net. We bitched and moaned last year about him needing to use his size and get in close to be successful. I'm not going to start criticizing him now because he did exactly what people wanted. Let's be real honest for a second, if he used a pretty dangle move, the same people would be complaining that the move would never work in the regular season.

And by the way, that stupid deflection goal and phantom assist made up the only two points we had in that game. Not bad for a higher schooler.

So with all do respect to that point, f*** that noise.

As for the issues with the coach, take that up with the coach. That's a Quinn thing.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Oh yeah this makes total sense:

I said it haha. Quinn will find a way to play Howden ahead of Lias

 

[Machinehead]

So, you’re saying the rebuild is not over, there’s still work to be done and the playoffs are not likely. Very good assessment.

This is a strawman.

I don't want to make the playoffs but I also don't want the most important prospect we've ever had playing with Ryan Strome.

Kakko looked terrible in preseason when he was with the other garbage we have instead of Zibanejad and immediately, a bunch of posters laced into Kakko over it. But I'm being negative.

 

[JimmyG89]

This is the only reason I can see Smith in the lineup. For now, Quinn doesn't trust his young D to PK.

I don't think it's a good thing to do, but he doesn't trust them yet.

Hopefully they get a shot at some point. Hajek can PK, and I'd think DeAngelo can too.

 

[Edge]

It isn't about production. We've seen him put up points in bunches before. It's a meaningless sample.

He evidently hasn't improved aspects of his game which needed improvement.

If he hits a wall again like he did last year, there's no safety net. Nobody is taking that spot from Howden. Just like last year when he was painfully bad for 60 games and kept getting led to the slaughter night after night.

See and that's where we create these catch-22 for the guys we want to double down on.

Well it's not about the production. Well that sure takes a hell of a lot out of the evaluation.

Okay, it's about the improvements. So he went to the net and got into a high traffic area (something people wanted to see more of last year). But that doesn't count either.

Okay, here's a list of factors, ranging from safety net to how he played last year. So what did Andersson do last year? Where did Chytil go after December? What did Kravtsov do this preseason?

I mean if we're going to actually critique this players, and swear that there's no bias, then why is this thread lighting up and the others are still in blackout mode?

The answer's not hard.

 

[Machinehead]

This is the only reason I can see Smith in the lineup. For now, Quinn doesn't trust his young D to PK.

I don't think it's a good thing to do, but he doesn't trust them yet.

Hopefully they get a shot at some point. Hajek can PK, and I'd think DeAngelo can too.

Not a fan. This is a "Devil you know" choice.

 

[Procrastinator]

This is a strawman.

I don't want to make the playoffs but I also don't want the most important prospect we've ever had playing with Ryan Strome.

Kakko looked terrible in preseason when he was with the other garbage we have instead of Zibanejad and immediately, a bunch of posters laced into Kakko over it. But I'm being negative.

Im sorry but i dont think kakko looked "bad" because of strome. Kakko just looked like an 18yo kid trying to figure out how to play in the NHL.

 

[Kovalev27]

that's why. I've been saying this all summer. Smith's ability to play wing then drop back to D on the PK and keep 77 and 23 out of that rotation as much as possible is why he's going to play a lot. its also another reason why shattenkirk who couldn't kill penalties was not as valuable as smith when it came to the buyout option.