Roster Building Thread V (2022-23): Cheese and WINE

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Fast isn't coming back here. I know it was a different regime but I always got the impression (even meeting him) that he's a very quiet and introverted guy and would prefer being in a smaller market.

Panarin you sit down and give him the business. You can't do what Ted Sator did to Pierre Larouche in 1985-86 and just send him to the minors, but you can start to cut his ice time, PP time, stop surrounding him with his friends, and just tell him we're going to start to move in a different direction. You buy in, or you waive.

 

[SA16]

Fast isn't coming back here. I know it was a different regime but I always got the impression (even meeting him) that he's a very quiet and introverted guy and would prefer being in a smaller market.

Panarin you sit down and give him the business. You can't do what Ted Sator did to Pierre Larouche in 1985-86 and just send him to the minors, but you can start to cut his ice time, PP time, stop surrounding him with his friends, and just tell him we're going to start to move in a different direction. You buy in, or you waive.

You are missing the third option which is Panarin doesn’t “buy in”, refuses to waive, and the coach plays him in his usual role because he’s the best offensive player on the team and by demoting him the coach makes himself more likely to get fired.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

You are missing the third option which is Panarin doesn’t “buy in”, refuses to waive, and the coach plays him in his usual role because he’s the best offensive player on the team and by demoting him the coach makes himself more likely to get fired.

Something has to give for next season.

Panarin has all but said he won't change how he plays.

He can play his usual PP time but not be relied on so much for even strength.

 

[SA16]

Something has to give for next season.

Panarin has all but said he won't change how he plays.

He can play his usual PP time but not be relied on so much for even strength.

He led the team in 5v5 scoring rate. The coach isn’t going to demote him just because. If he is on the team relying on him less at even strength serves no purpose other than making the team worse.

 

[Ori]

Gallant need to get Zib and Panarin involved somehow

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Panarin needs to be sent to the Acid Queen

Can someone please photoshop Artemy over Tommy

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Something has to give for next season.

Panarin has all but said he won't change how he plays.

He can play his usual PP time but not be relied on so much for even strength.

This would relegate Panarin to being a PP specialist and you can't have a PP specialist having almost $12MM cap hit.

I still hold out hope this team gets it together, we saw it in games 1 and 2.

 

[cheech70]

Looking back Drury screwed up by acquiring Kane. It was an after thought and the asset should have gone to Bertuzzi. Kane Panarin too similar. Tank used to play with an edge but not recently. Kane has diminished the PP and effected Fox. Kane + Buch are Drury mistakes and hopefully he learns something moving forward. Kane was fools gold.

 

[duhmetreE]

who could possibly be a fit for Panarin? Florida? Toronto? Seattle? LAK? I don't see many places where he would waive.

now Trouba? Detroit? Florida?

 

[DanielBrassard]

who could possibly be a fit for Panarin? Florida? Toronto? Seattle? LAK? I don't see many places where he would waive.

now Trouba? Detroit? Florida?

Panarin isn't gonna be traded. Trouba hopefully Detroit, they have a shit load of cap space.

 

[duhmetreE]

Looking back Drury screwed up by acquiring Kane. It was an after thought and the asset should have gone to Bertuzzi. Kane Panarin too similar. Tank used to play with an edge but not recently. Kane has diminished the PP and effected Fox. Kane + Buch are Drury mistakes and hopefully he learns something moving forward. Kane was fools gold.

ROR or Bertuzzi was the play. I'd even look to sign Bertuzzi if it's not some absurd cost.

Hypotheticallys speaking, moving on from Panarin and Trouba... for the same amount of money, sign Bertuzzi, Orlov, ROR and Gudas.... actually would have some cash left over.

Panarin isn't gonna be traded. Trouba hopefully Detroit, they have a shit load of cap space.

Moving Trouba, signing Orlov and Gudas.

I think if Panarin goes out like this... I hope it doesn't end like this.... Drury will 'force' him out.

 

[DanielBrassard]

ROR or Bertuzzi was the play. I'd even look to sign Bertuzzi if it's not some absurd cost.

Hypotheticallys speaking, moving on from Panarin and Trouba... for the same amount of money, sign Bertuzzi, Orlov, ROR and Gudas.... actually would have some cash left over.


Moving Trouba, signing Orlov and Gudas.

I think if Panarin goes out like this... I hope it doesn't end like this.... Drury will 'force' him out.

I like Orlov but he's already 31. Gudas isn't what we need unless he replacing Schneider.

 

[duhmetreE]

I like Orlov but he's already 31. Gudas isn't what we need unless he replacing Schneider.

Gudas replacing Trouba.... as for Schneider... I have no clue what's going on there. I can see him improving and becoming a strong defender.... I can also seem him doing nothing. I respect his work ethic and focus off the ice, therefor I lean towards him figuring it out. Some competent coaching would help him tremendously IMO.

Having some wily vets is fine on Defense. We cant be completely green. I don't commit long term but maybe that's what he's looking for.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

This would relegate Panarin to being a PP specialist and you can't have a PP specialist having almost $12MM cap hit.

I still hold out hope this team gets it together, we saw it in games 1 and 2.

Something needs to change for next season. Everyone and their ancestors could have told you as soon as the 2020 Bubble that this core was mentally weak.

Panarin plays one way and one way only. He refuses to change. It's an issue and if they expect different results that can't keep getting on bended knee for him or shrug and New York trope it "well it is what it is" or "whadya gonna do bro?".

 

[pld459666]

He led the team in 5v5 scoring rate. The coach isn’t going to demote him just because. If he is on the team relying on him less at even strength serves no purpose other than making the team worse.

Sit him for a period in the playoffs

 

[LokiDog]

Why is Panarin playing on the top line while Laf is scratched? At least one of those 2 players looks like he gives a f*** on the ice.

Unfortunately, the one who looks like he gives a a shit also looks like an AHL third liner. You give a guy a 12M annual salary, deserved or not, you’re going to live and die on the performance of that player (which is the crux of most people’s problem with Panarin). Your best bet is too put him in the best position to succeed and hope for the best. I wouldn’t hold my breath for that working out, but Lafreniere is almost certainly less likely to impact whether or not we win this game than Panarin is.

There shouldn’t be any question about whether to bother trying to sign Kane. There shouldn’t really be much discussion about re-signing Tarasenko either. Panarin is a wanker I would rather go score 110 points anywhere else in the league than have another 95 point season here, at this point. Kreider is what he is, but I hate that he’s on the contract he’s on because even at 31 he still simply doesn’t know how to bring a consistent effort. Mika only gets any kind of pass from me at all because he genuinely showed up last playoffs and he’s on a fair contract (not great, but fair) for what he does on both ends of the ice. Trochek is fine for what he is but that’s a complementary middle six guy who works hard, so he’s not a difference maker. All of the kid line blows rotten yogurt chunks. The fourth line is fine for a 4th line, but I’d like it a lot better if the total salary of that line was Goodrow’s salary instead of nearly 6M.

Fox is elite but lacks elite physical attributes in size, speed, shot, etc. and therefore despite still being genuinely elite, it’s tough to ask him to be the dynamic play driving force on the team and he gets over worked. I wish he was a plus skater. Lindgren is all heart and you can’t really complain about him. Miller is young enough that I’m pretty confident he’ll be a good middle pairing guy for a long time based on what he’s done so far. Trouba has slowed down and never was GREAT. He’s had stretches of play better than he gets credit for, because the boards always need a scapegoat, but he’s definitely NOT good enough to be making 8M. Schneider still has hope but had been rough here in his sophomore year. Plenty of time to mold himself into a reliable regular 2nd or 3rd pair guy, but isn’t it right now. Mikkola is fine for a 6, but nothing special either.

Shesterkin is elite but not AS elite as his Vezina season. It would be impossible to really pin our playoff failings on him. Halak is fine/good as a backup. Maybe we bring him back, maybe not. It genuinely makes no difference.




So… Fox, Shesterkin are great, Lindgren and the 4th line do what they’re supposed to. Miller has promise. Schneider has potential. Trochek tries. Zibanejad is good, but not amazing. The rest of our roster - the result of our signings and lottery picks and rebuild - is sewage. Delicious.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Sit him for a period in the playoffs

The disrespect. They can't do that because it would lead to the apocalypse.

All sarcasm aside, the Rangers have coddled his ass and got on bended knee for him enough.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Gudas replacing Trouba.... as for Schneider... I have no clue what's going on there. I can see him improving and becoming a strong defender.... I can also seem him doing nothing. I respect his work ethic and focus off the ice, therefor I lean towards him figuring it out. Some competent coaching would help him tremendously IMO.

Having some wily vets is fine on Defense. We cant be completely green. I don't commit long term but maybe that's what he's looking for.

How does Gudas replacing Trouba help on ice? I guess indirectly it would because they would save cap space but Gudas is another guy who's not a great puck moving defensman on the top 2 pairs. That doesn't work.

Idk I just think either you have it or you don't, at least when it comes to puck skills. I think Schneider could turn into a solid defensive player but he needs to play with a guy who can carry the load with the puck to be on a effective player.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Unfortunately, the one who looks like he gives a a shit also looks like an AHL third liner. You give a guy a 12M annual salary, deserved or not, you’re going to live and die on the performance of that player (which is the crux of most people’s problem with Panarin). Your best bet is too put him in the best position to succeed and hope for the best. I wouldn’t hold my breath for that working out, but Lafreniere is almost certainly less likely to impact whether or not we win this game than Panarin is.

There shouldn’t be any question about whether to bother trying to sign Kane. There shouldn’t really be much discussion about re-signing Tarasenko either. Panarin is a wanker I would rather go score 110 points anywhere else in the league than have another 95 point season here, at this point. Kreider is what he is, but I hate that he’s on the contract he’s on because even at 31 he still simply doesn’t know how to bring a consistent effort. Mika only gets any kind of pass from me at all because he genuinely showed up last playoffs and he’s on a fair contract (not great, but fair) for what he does on both ends of the ice. Trochek is fine for what he is but that’s a complementary middle six guy who works hard, so he’s not a difference maker. All of the kid line blows rotten yogurt chunks. The fourth line is fine for a 4th line, but I’d like it a lot better if the total salary of that line was Goodrow’s salary instead of nearly 6M.

Fox is elite but lacks elite physical attributes in size, speed, shot, etc. and therefore despite still being genuinely elite, it’s tough to ask him to be the dynamic play driving force on the team and he gets over worked. I wish he was a plus skater. Lindgren is all heart and you can’t really complain about him. Miller is young enough that I’m pretty confident he’ll be a good middle pairing guy for a long time based on what he’s done so far. Trouba has slowed down and never was GREAT. He’s had stretches of play better than he gets credit for, because the boards always need a scapegoat, but he’s definitely NOT good enough to be making 8M. Schneider still has hope but had been rough here in his sophomore year. Plenty of time to mold himself into a reliable regular 2nd or 3rd pair guy, but isn’t it right now. Mikkola is fine for a 6, but nothing special either.

Shesterkin is elite but not AS elite as his Vezina season. It would be impossible to really pin our playoff failings on him. Halak is fine/good as a backup. Maybe we bring him back, maybe not. It genuinely makes no difference.




So… Fox, Shesterkin are great, Lindgren and the 4th line do what they’re supposed to. Miller has promise. Schneider has potential. Trochek tries. Zibanejad is good, but not amazing. The rest of our roster - the result of our signings and lottery picks and rebuild - is sewage. Delicious.

Chtyil improved this year. Kaako did as well. I don't fault either.

Chytil will hopefully continue to get strong and more durable and become a 55-60 point player in years 2-3 of his new contract.

Kaako hit 40 points and played all 82 games this year. He's slowly improving. I think he will peak at around 25-26 and slowly progress every year. The key for him is to work on his shot and skating. It would be nice if he hung around NY for a summer and worked with Prentiss. He's very quiet/introverted and you could tell one of those guys who despite slowly adapting to NY and saying the right things to the press, in his heart is not a big city guy (plus he has a g/f back home).

If the Rangers had a real skills/skating coach and not that hack Ciaccao, maybe some of these things would be primarily focused on.

Schneider I'm not worried about. He's still very young and on an ELC. He had somewhat of an uneven sophomore slump year, but he'll get better.

 

[LokiDog]

Chtyil improved this year. Kaako did as well. I don't fault either.

Chytil will hopefully continue to get strong and more durable and become a 55-60 point player in years 2-3 of his new contract.

Kaako hit 40 points and played all 82 games this year. He's slowly improving. I think he will peak at around 25-26 and slowly progress every year. The key for him is to work on his shot and skating. It would be nice if he hung around NY for a summer and worked with Prentiss. He's very quiet/introverted and you could tell one of those guys who despite slowly adapting to NY and saying the right things to the press, in his heart is not a big city guy (plus he has a g/f back home).

If the Rangers had a real skills/skating coach and not that hack Ciaccao, maybe some of these things would be primarily focused on.

Schneider I'm not worried about. He's still very young and on an ELC. He had somewhat of an uneven sophomore slump year, but he'll get better.

Chytil and Kakko are both on pace to eventually be second third line tweeners. Hallelujah. Chytil is there production wise but his overall game still lacks tremendously. It’s not all about production either. Not a single one of those kids has shown anything that indicates they will be able to eventually take the step to being a bonafide top six player. Not one of them will ever be a play driver. We had 5 first round forwards; 4 in the top 10. Chytil who was picked in the 20s ended up being the closest thing to an actual player. Two of the four top 10 picks are gone with nothing to show and the other two are trending towards careers as premium third liners.

That alone is the kiss of death on the success of this iteration of the team. I definitely agree on Schneider. He and Miller both will improve. Mikkola is also fine as a 6. If you removed Trouba’s 8M cap hit and added a legitimate puck moving top four Dman in that spot, the D core and goaltending would be sorted.

The forward situation looks almost entirely unfixable and disastrous.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Chytil and Kakko are both on pace to eventually be second third line tweeners. Hallelujah. Chytil is there production wise but his overall game still lacks tremendously. It’s not all about production either. Not a single one of those kids has shown anything that indicates they will be able to eventually take the step to being a bonafide top six player. Not one of them will ever be a play driver. We had 5 first round forwards; 4 in the top 10. Chytil who was picked in the 20s ended up being the closest thing to an actual player. Two of the four top 10 picks are gone with nothing to show and the other two are trending towards careers as premium third liners.

That alone is the kiss of death on the success of this iteration of the team. I definitely agree on Schneider. He and Miller both will improve. Mikkola is also fine as a 6. If you removed Trouba’s 8M cap hit and added a legitimate puck moving top four Dman in that spot, the D core and goaltending would be sorted.

The forward situation looks almost entirely unfixable and disastrous.

I think Chytil will eventually be a second liner.

Kaako can be a play driver with his cycling.

Both kids have strong skills and parts of their game. Get them a real skills coach. Ciaccao out.

 

[duhmetreE]

How does Gudas replacing Trouba help on ice? I guess indirectly it would because they would save cap space but Gudas is another guy who's not a great puck moving defensman on the top 2 pairs. That doesn't work.

Idk I just think either you have it or you don't, at least when it comes to puck skills. I think Schneider could turn into a solid defensive player but he needs to play with a guy who can carry the load with the puck to be on a effective player.

He does what Trouba does, but it's been at a higher level. A fraction of the cost.

Orlov helps in the PMD and the hope would be with a competent coaching staff, puck movement increases across the board.

Lindgren Fox
Orlov Schneider
KAM Gudas

puts a lot of hope in Schneider. If it doesn't work, Gudas can work with Orlov

I see little to not chance of this happening, so it's not worth going deep into it

 

[Kravtsov420]

Honestly take a step back to hopefully take two steps forward. It’s time to just play the kids 1st like and top Pp minutes and go from there. Bring in some energy with cuyle and othmann

Then eventually add stokes and Bernard so we have a team that has some speed spunk and forchecking.

 

[LokiDog]

I think Chytil will eventually be a second liner.

Kaako can be a play driver with his cycling.

Both kids have strong skills and parts of their game. Get them a real skills coach. Ciaccao out.

I don’t believe it. Not at this point. We see how hard it is to be a play driver in the NHL. I can’t see any of the kids becoming better than Kreider or Trochek who are certainly not play drivers. We whiffed on 4 top 10 selected forwards. Any team that does that isn’t going places. Chytil is likely a Strome type guy who isn’t really a bottom six guy but isn’t really good enough to want in your top six. Kakko is Jesper Fast, but slow. A bit more skill, but will honestly probably struggle to have more impact than Fast. I have absolutely no faith in these kids at this point. I don’t care if they’re fringe top six 45-55 point players, at all. That’s not the hard part of building a winner, by a long shot. Not one of them will provide the level of impact that a successful rebuild hinges on.

Not only that, but without changes, they will inherit the team from the over 30 crowd (Trochek, Kreider, Zib, Bread) and not come even CLOSE to replacing their impact and production. Those guys weren’t good enough to lead us to success. We’re firmly on course for a decade of mediocrity starting in 3 years. Shesterkin and Fox will be lifetime Rangers whose careers are wasted here while we go from a borderline contender to a bubble team and then stay there, not strong enough to contend and not bad enough to draft an impact player. How many times have we seen this story?

 

[RangersFan1994]

why do people think it is so easy to trade Panarin? He has a NMC until the end of his contract and by all accounts he loves living in New York.

He should show that he does in these playoffs. He just loves the money we gave him. Regular season player