Roster Building Thread V (2022-23): Cheese and WINE

[Matt Rentfree]

What mystifies me about this team more than anything is that Dolan seemingly has bottomless pockets. That being the case, how do we not have one of the top 3 drafting and development systems in the league? Why do we not have someone like Barb Underhill on payroll? Why are we not paying obscene amounts of money to someone like Messier or Craig McTavish to be a faceoff coach? There are so many ways we can improve this team that have nothing to do with a cap ceiling and yet we don't do it. I just don't get it.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I don’t believe it. Not at this point. We see how hard it is to be a play driver in the NHL. I can’t see any of the kids becoming better than Kreider or Trochek who are certainly not play drivers. We whiffed on 4 top 10 selected forwards. Any team that does that isn’t going places. Chytil is likely a Strome type guy who isn’t really a bottom six guy but isn’t really good enough to want in your top six. Kakko is Jesper Fast, but slow. A bit more skill, but will honestly probably struggle to have more impact than Fast. I have absolutely no faith in these kids at this point. I don’t care if they’re fringe top six 45-55 point players, at all. That’s not the hard part of building a winner, by a long shot. Not one of them will provide the level of impact that a successful rebuild hinges on.

Not only that, but without changes, they will inherit the team from the over 30 crowd (Trochek, Kreider, Zib, Bread) and not come even CLOSE to replacing their impact and production. Those guys weren’t good enough to lead us to success. We’re firmly on course for a decade of mediocrity starting in 3 years. Shesterkin and Fox will be lifetime Rangers whose careers are wasted here while we go from a borderline contender to a bubble team and then stay there, not strong enough to contend and not bad enough to draft an impact player. How many times have we seen this story?

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A lot will depend on Drury's picks.

It's already known that Gorton and Bobrov were not the right guys.

Othmann could become a very good player. Cullye and Edstrom while not top sixers could become disrupters and shit stirrers that add a lot of fiber.

We've seen teams with good pieces do great things. Washington in 2018 after years of regular season success and playoff failures got some clutch performances from a few castoffs. St. Louis in 2019 road a rookie goalie to success.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

What mystifies me about this team more than anything is that Dolan seemingly has bottomless pockets. That being the case, how do we not have one of the top 3 drafting and development systems in the league? Why do we not have someone like Barb Underhill on payroll? Why are we not paying obscene amounts of money to someone like Messier or Craig McTavish to be a faceoff coach? There are so many ways we can improve this team that have nothing to do with a cap ceiling and yet we don't do it. I just don't get it.

It's a bottom line business and as long as money is made and playoffs revenue earned, very few owners will go the extra mile. Cohen is trying to do that in various ways. Steinbrenner in his time tried to with mixed results (70s taking advantage of UFAs worked out great, in the 80s not so much with the innovations, the 90s him getting banned in the Winfield dirt digging scandal saved the Yankees).

Often the people with the best ideas or minds are not in the right business or positions.

Look at Hollywood. Can you honestly tell me that any of the so called writers or major film are any good? They're releasing a Flash movie and relying on people who saw Michael Keaton play Batman over 30 years ago to make any money on this thing.

We as a think tank here in HF have come up with enough ways to help the Rangers. Why are the people in charge not thinking this? Maybe they're just not that smart.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Honestly take a step back to hopefully take two steps forward. It’s time to just play the kids 1st like and top Pp minutes and go from there. Bring in some energy with cuyle and othmann

Then eventually add stokes and Bernard so we have a team that has some speed spunk and forchecking.

Cullye/Othmann and potentially Edstrom will all get time with the big club next year.

Berard has a lot of work ahead of him. The fact that he's not playing in the Pack's run shows he's not even anywhere close.

Sykora will at earliest debut the beginning of 2024 and maybe more like 2025. He's very young and slim.

 

[RagFinMet]

I don’t believe it. Not at this point. We see how hard it is to be a play driver in the NHL. I can’t see any of the kids becoming better than Kreider or Trochek who are certainly not play drivers. We whiffed on 4 top 10 selected forwards. Any team that does that isn’t going places. Chytil is likely a Strome type guy who isn’t really a bottom six guy but isn’t really good enough to want in your top six. Kakko is Jesper Fast, but slow. A bit more skill, but will honestly probably struggle to have more impact than Fast. I have absolutely no faith in these kids at this point. I don’t care if they’re fringe top six 45-55 point players, at all. That’s not the hard part of building a winner, by a long shot. Not one of them will provide the level of impact that a successful rebuild hinges on.

Not only that, but without changes, they will inherit the team from the over 30 crowd (Trochek, Kreider, Zib, Bread) and not come even CLOSE to replacing their impact and production. Those guys weren’t good enough to lead us to success. We’re firmly on course for a decade of mediocrity starting in 3 years. Shesterkin and Fox will be lifetime Rangers whose careers are wasted here while we go from a borderline contender to a bubble team and then stay there, not strong enough to contend and not bad enough to draft an impact player. How many times have we seen this story?

View attachment 699469

The kids dont need to take the place of pan, zib, kreid, etc
If the kids stay mediocre they make mediocre money
When pan and company finally go they sign FAs to take their spots
And hopefully the right FAs without overpaying like Panarin
And hopefully Othmann bucks the trend and actually becomes a legit top 6 W
Im not worried about our future
Im worried about the current core

 

[LokiDog]

The kids dont need to take the place of pan, zib, kreid, etc
If the kids stay mediocre they make mediocre money
When pan and company finally go they sign FAs to take their spots
And hopefully the right FAs without overpaying like Panarin
And hopefully Othmann bucks the trend and actually becomes a legit top 6 W
Im not worried about our future
Im worried about the current core

That has never worked, ever. And isn’t as easily done as said either. Plus I still feel like we’re going to overpay these kids a bit based off draft pedigree. For what they bring why not just sign guys like Janmark and Jarnkrok (lol) for 1.25M each. If the homegrown talent sucks, we’re always paying a premium to import it on the open market. Teams win with homegrown players on good extensions or ELCs. As disappointing as this series has been, I’m MORE worried about our future than the current core.

Buffalo locked up Tage and Cozens for under 14.25M. NJ has Hughes and Hischier for under 15.25M. Ottawa has Stutzle and Tkachuk at 16.5M. Dallas has Hintz and Robertson at 16.2M. We have Panarin at nearly 12M. When Panarin, Kreider and Zibanejad have moved on what are we paying to bring in replacements? Grow them yourself, you can keep them at reasonable prices - import them at 27 years old and you’re outbidding everyone else and only getting 4-5 prime years if you’re lucky.

 

[Graves97]

What mystifies me about this team more than anything is that Dolan seemingly has bottomless pockets. That being the case, how do we not have one of the top 3 drafting and development systems in the league? Why do we not have someone like Barb Underhill on payroll? Why are we not paying obscene amounts of money to someone like Messier or Craig McTavish to be a faceoff coach? There are so many ways we can improve this team that have nothing to do with a cap ceiling and yet we don't do it. I just don't get it.

Because Dolan doesn’t care about the rangers outside of the profit they make each year. That’s why we will never fully develop like the devils and be irrelevant for over a decade since he doesn’t want to lose out on the playoff money. That’s also why he won’t throw an infinite amount of money (development, scouting, skills coaches, etc.) at the team unless it can drive other revenue like merchandising and tickets.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I don’t believe it. Not at this point. We see how hard it is to be a play driver in the NHL. I can’t see any of the kids becoming better than Kreider or Trochek who are certainly not play drivers. We whiffed on 4 top 10 selected forwards. Any team that does that isn’t going places. Chytil is likely a Strome type guy who isn’t really a bottom six guy but isn’t really good enough to want in your top six. Kakko is Jesper Fast, but slow. A bit more skill, but will honestly probably struggle to have more impact than Fast. I have absolutely no faith in these kids at this point. I don’t care if they’re fringe top six 45-55 point players, at all. That’s not the hard part of building a winner, by a long shot. Not one of them will provide the level of impact that a successful rebuild hinges on.

Not only that, but without changes, they will inherit the team from the over 30 crowd (Trochek, Kreider, Zib, Bread) and not come even CLOSE to replacing their impact and production. Those guys weren’t good enough to lead us to success. We’re firmly on course for a decade of mediocrity starting in 3 years. Shesterkin and Fox will be lifetime Rangers whose careers are wasted here while we go from a borderline contender to a bubble team and then stay there, not strong enough to contend and not bad enough to draft an impact player. How many times have we seen this story?

View attachment 699469

Just wanted to make a comment about the term play-driver. What a play driver is, is someone who is a really good possession player at 5v5, particularly one who generates shot attempts and scoring chances at a high level. Kreider for example has been one of the premier play-drivers in the NHL for almost the entirety of his career. I think the term has become synonymous with guys who score a lot nowadays but that's not how the term originated in analytic circles. I don't mean to be pedantic but there is a difference. Generally I agree with your overall point, and it's why I wanted to go in a different direction than the one Drury chose to go in his first offseason. I didn't think this core was good enough then and I certainly don't think it is now, and the kids haven't made enough progress to suggest they will be good enough either.

 

[LokiDog]

Just wanted to make a comment about the term play-driver. What a play driver is, is someone who is a really good possession player at 5v5, particularly one who generates shot attempts and scoring chances at a high level. Kreider for example has been one of the premier play-drivers in the NHL for almost the entirety of his career. I think the term has become synonymous with guys who score a lot nowadays but that's not how the term originated in analytic circles. I don't mean to be pedantic but there is a difference. Generally I agree with your overall point, and it's why I wanted to go in a different direction than the one Drury chose to go in his first offseason. I didn't think this core was good enough then and I certainly don't think it is now, and the kids haven't made enough progress to suggest they will be good enough either.

This is a fair point. If I’m using the term incorrectly, that’s on me. What I mean to say is a guy like the guy Panarin was when he first got to NY. And no, that doesn’t have to be as elite and high producing, but I meant someone who WANTS the puck on their stick and marshals the offense. Like a quarterback. Not a PPQB. A guy who demands teams attention, regains possession when lost, throws different looks at the opposition. Guys like, for instance, Lawson Crouse are capable of doing that without being big scorers. Sam Bennett is another one. His production isn’t superstar but he drives play. It’s dogged work combined with some dangerous attribute whether it be speed to back defenders off and disrupt on the forecheck and backcheck, a dangerous shot that can fly from anywhere inside the circles, the ability to thread slick passes. Chytil is the closest but just doesn’t have the “it” factor. And like I said, I know the guys I’m talking about are rare… the issue isn’t so much that the kids aren’t going to be that. It’s that no one is and there aren’t any in the pipeline. Paying for a UFA age play driver almost always ends badly. You just can’t draft forwards at 1, 2, 7 and 9 in a four year stretch and have none become play drivers and be successful, IMO.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Chytil and Kakko are both on pace to eventually be second third line tweeners. Hallelujah. Chytil is there production wise but his overall game still lacks tremendously. It’s not all about production either. Not a single one of those kids has shown anything that indicates they will be able to eventually take the step to being a bonafide top six player. Not one of them will ever be a play driver. We had 5 first round forwards; 4 in the top 10. Chytil who was picked in the 20s ended up being the closest thing to an actual player. Two of the four top 10 picks are gone with nothing to show and the other two are trending towards careers as premium third liners.

That alone is the kiss of death on the success of this iteration of the team. I definitely agree on Schneider. He and Miller both will improve. Mikkola is also fine as a 6. If you removed Trouba’s 8M cap hit and added a legitimate puck moving top four Dman in that spot, the D core and goaltending would be sorted.

The forward situation looks almost entirely unfixable and disastrous.

Lafreniere is border line lost cause and likely needs a change of scenery. Maybe with a different organization with fresh eyes, he can figure it out, because I just don't think it's going to happen in a NY Rangers uniform.

 

[leetch99]

Leetchie, I don't think I know the story of how you became an NYR fan up in PEI. Did you lose a bet? Were you punished for not doing your homework?

As a Canadian kid, the Leafs or the Habs were much better options. Even the Bruins if you didn't want to root for a team from Canada.

The Gag line reeled me in and the Rangers were very impressionable on a 10 yr old at that time . Then a year or two later my younger brother became an Islander fan ....and that really sucked . My Dad was a Leaf fan until the Habs knocked them out in the Covid year....now he is 86 and an avid Senator fan . He said this morning " I hope Leafs lose" ! It's not easy being a Ranger fan for 50 years in Hab country for sure but it has been a lot harder for the Leaf fans.....they have to be tough .

 

[leetch99]

They played like ****, so the Charmin reference is apt

It's unreal how inept they have become . I sometime think there has been some internal strife.....the guys are not even being physical for the most part . I think overall they are unhappy with the addition of Tarasenko and Cane , especially the latter. But....who really knows ? They could easily enough come back and win 2 straight .

 

[CLW]

It's unreal how inept they have become . I sometime think there has been some internal strife.....the guys are not even being physical for the most part . I think overall they are unhappy with the addition of Tarasenko and Cane , especially the latter. But....who really knows ? They could easily enough come back and win 2 straight .

Something is not ok but it's hard to say exactly what behind all the pr smoke. They came out of the pre-season playing the opening couple of games well and suddenly they are a comatose .500 club and Trouba had to toss his helmet to get them to show a pulse. That shouldn't happen with a motivated team looking to make a deep run. Personally I think they've given up on Gallant and co. but who knows.

 

[LokiDog]

Something is not ok but it's hard to say exactly what behind all the pr smoke. They came out of the pre-season playing the opening couple of games well and suddenly they are a comatose .500 club and Trouba had to toss his helmet to get them to show a pulse. That shouldn't happen with a motivated team looking to make a deep run. Personally I think they've given up on Gallant and co. but who knows.

I agree with this, but that’s even more damning.

They went to the ECF with Gallant in his first year here, deeper than any of them save Kreider have ever been. He’s not a drill sergeant either - he lets them do their thing for the most part.

I can’t really buy that Kane and Tarasenko additions upset them, because they’re rentals who won’t impact anyone’s long term pay day or playing opportunities but any group that was in the ECF last year should be excited to add to guys of that caliber, who have won before, so I don’t think that’s it.

If they’re mutinying on the coach already, that means the group is pampered babies who won’t be happy with any coach and they need to be split up, sent their separate ways and learn how to play on a team that actually has accountability and standards. Because if GG is too much for them, they must believe they don’t need a coach at all. To that extent, the chief culprit on leading the “coach has lost the room” culture, in my humblest of (obviously correct) opinions, is Panarin.

 

[CLW]

I agree with this, but that’s even more damning.

They went to the ECF with Gallant in his first year here, deeper than any of them save Kreider have ever been. He’s not a drill sergeant either - he lets them do their thing for the most part.

I can’t really buy that Kane and Tarasenko additions upset them, because they’re rentals who won’t impact anyone’s long term pay day or playing opportunities but any group that was in the ECF last year should be excited to add to guys of that caliber, who have won before, so I don’t think that’s it.

If they’re mutinying on the coach already, that means the group is pampered babies who won’t be happy with any coach and they need to be split up, sent their separate ways and learn how to play on a team that actually has accountability and standards. Because if GG is too much for them, they must believe they don’t need a coach at all. To that extent, the chief culprit on leading the “coach has lost the room” culture, in my humblest of (obviously correct) opinions, is Panarin.

I don't think they see GG as "too much for them". They see they are miles behind other teams in terms of coaching/X & Os etc but have to do as GG et al say anyway.

 

[LokiDog]

Buffalo locked up Tage and Cozens for 14.25M. NJ has Hughes and Hischier for 15.25M. Ottawa has Stutzle and Tkachuk at 16.5M. Dallas has Hintz and Robertson at 16.2M. We have Panarin at nearly 12M. When Panarin, Kreider and Zibanejad have moved on what are we paying to bring in replacements? Grow them yourself, you can keep them at reasonable prices - import them at 27 years old and you’re outbidding everyone else and only getting 4-5 prime years if you’re lucky.

The kids coming along slowly would have been less than ideal but okay. The kids aren’t coming along at all. They will never be these players. 1 and 2 overall. 7 and 9 are already gone for peanuts. Until we can grow a forward or two of this caliber ourselves, we will not succeed in a cap league. Next year Panarin alone makes between 2.7M and 4.9M less than any of those duos, by himself, and I would take any of those players individually over Panarin in 1/100th of a heartbeat.

 

[LokiDog]

I don't think they see GG as "too much for them". They see they are miles behind other teams in terms of coaching/X & Os etc but have to do as GG et al say anyway.

I don’t read this team as a group that is craving MORE coaching. They do not like being told how to play. If anything I feel that a tactician who holds players accountable regardless of contract and seniority would lose the room within months with this group of babies.

 

[effen]

I don’t read this team as a group that is craving MORE coaching. They do not like being told how to play. If anything I feel that a tactician who holds players accountable regardless of contract and seniority would lose the room within months with this group of babies.

I have been banging this drum for 3 years now - they know perfectly well how they should play, it's just hard and hurts and they don't wanna..

And people endlessly harping on coach changes.drives me nuts.

 

[Machinehead]

This is a fair point. If I’m using the term incorrectly, that’s on me. What I mean to say is a guy like the guy Panarin was when he first got to NY. And no, that doesn’t have to be as elite and high producing, but I meant someone who WANTS the puck on their stick and marshals the offense. Like a quarterback. Not a PPQB. A guy who demands teams attention, regains possession when lost, throws different looks at the opposition. Guys like, for instance, Lawson Crouse are capable of doing that without being big scorers. Sam Bennett is another one. His production isn’t superstar but he drives play. It’s dogged work combined with some dangerous attribute whether it be speed to back defenders off and disrupt on the forecheck and backcheck, a dangerous shot that can fly from anywhere inside the circles, the ability to thread slick passes. Chytil is the closest but just doesn’t have the “it” factor. And like I said, I know the guys I’m talking about are rare… the issue isn’t so much that the kids aren’t going to be that. It’s that no one is and there aren’t any in the pipeline. Paying for a UFA age play driver almost always ends badly. You just can’t draft forwards at 1, 2, 7 and 9 in a four year stretch and have none become play drivers and be successful, IMO.

I can see what you're saying.

I would push back on Lawson Crouse who runs around and looks like he's doing things but produces shit analytics most of the time, but I don't like to get caught up in examples.

What you're saying is, I think, we need guys who defenders are afraid of. Panarin and Zibanejad are good at things. But they're very much "last touch" guys - Zibanejad with his elite shot and Panarin with his passing. But they're not guys that defenders see coming at them and go "oh boy..."

Let me posit this. In basketball you basically have scorers, bigs, and iso guys who can penetrate the defense. Of course your elite players can do more than one. Steph Curry can penetrate and shoot from anywhere. Giannis is a big who can score. But I digress. Point is, you have the retrievers, the finishers, and the penetrators.

We have great finishers in Zibanejad and Panarin. Panarin obviously not in terms of shooting but he makes the pass before it goes in. You know what I mean. The problem with finishers is, they go as the team is going. Kreider is a retriever and he's arguably the best in the league at it. @DanielBrassard said it - he's one of the premier possession-drivers in a generation. I stand by Kreider. I said it the other day - he's so dominant along the boards that he looks like he's not doing anything. It's easy for him to get possession from NHL defenders. Kakko can also be that player. The problem is, a good retriever is not putting goals up without other things going right.

This team has absolutely no penetrators. There's nobody who can beat guys 1v1 with hands and speed. Kane absolutely used to be, and I think that goal in game 2 is exactly what we're talking about, but at his age, he can't do it all the time and is a finisher most nights. I will say that I understood the logic behind the trade and it's hopefully a sign that Drury sees the need.

Even if Lafreniere and Kakko panned out, Kakko was arguably always going to be a retriever and Lafreniere was always going to be a finisher. Neither of them skate well enough to start the play.

There's nothing wrong with that. Jason Robertson, Leon Draisaitl, and David Pastrnak are finishers. Top notch players. The key is, their teams have guys that can do the things they can't.

We have the guys that go in and get it and we have the guys that can be dangerous in the zone. We have nobody to start the play with energy, chaos, and danger. As you said, I think the best penetrator on this team is Chytil, and God bless him, that's not good enough on a contending roster.

We need to add that element. And don't get me wrong, you don't need to be all-world to bring it. Roope Hintz, Carter Verhaeghe, Adrian Kempe, and even Bryan Rust are less-than Hart-level players who can create with their feet and hands.

The Rangers need to stop chasing yesterday's news, especially in a cap league, and do what Tampa, Colorado, Dallas, LA, and even Buffalo have been good at - identify and develop these guys before they're these guys. It's doable. They did it with Zibanejad, just with a different play style.

 

[LokiDog]

I can see what you're saying.

I would push back on Lawson Crouse who runs around and looks like he's doing things but produces shit analytics most of the time, but I don't like to get caught up in examples.

What you're saying is, I think, we need guys who defenders are afraid of. Panarin and Zibanejad are good at things. But they're very much "last touch" guys - Zibanejad with his elite shot and Panarin with his passing. But they're not guys that defenders see coming at them and go "oh boy..."

Let me posit this. In basketball you basically have scorers, bigs, and iso guys who can penetrate the defense. Of course your elite players can do more than one. Steph Curry can penetrate and shoot from anywhere. Giannis is a big who can score. But I digress. Point is, you have the retrievers, the finishers, and the penetrators.

We have great finishers in Zibanejad and Panarin. Panarin obviously not in terms of shooting but he makes the pass before it goes in. You know what I mean. The problem with finishers is, they go as the team is going. Kreider is a retriever and he's arguably the best in the league at it. @DanielBrassard said it - he's one of the premier possession-drivers in a generation. I stand by Kreider. I said it the other day - he's so dominant along the boards that he looks like he's not doing anything. It's easy for him to get possession from NHL defenders. Kakko can also be that player. The problem is, a good retriever is not putting goals up without other things going right.

This team has absolutely no penetrators. There's nobody who can beat guys 1v1 with hands and speed. Kane absolutely used to be, and I think that goal in game 2 is exactly what we're talking about, but at his age, he can't do it all the time and is a finisher most nights. I will say that I understood the logic behind the trade and it's hopefully a sign that Drury sees the need.

Even if Lafreniere and Kakko panned out, Kakko was arguably always going to be a retriever and Lafreniere was always going to be a finisher. Neither of them skate well enough to start the play.

There's nothing wrong with that. Jason Robertson, Leon Draisaitl, and David Pastrnak are finishers. Top notch players. The key is, their teams have guys that can do the things they can't.

We have the guys that go in and get it and we have the guys that can be dangerous in the zone. We have nobody to start the play with energy, chaos, and danger. As you said, I think the best penetrator on this team is Chytil, and God bless him, that's not good enough on a contending roster.

We need to add that element. And don't get me wrong, you don't need to be all-world to bring it. Roope Hintz, Carter Verhaeghe, Adrian Kempe, and even Bryan Rust are less-than Hart-level players who can create with their feet and hands.

The Rangers need to stop chasing yesterday's news, especially in a cap league, and do what Tampa, Colorado, Dallas, LA, and even Buffalo have been good at - identify and develop these guys before they're these guys. It's doable. They did it with Zibanejad, just with a different play style.

Nailed it on this one. I believe this is the essence of what I’m saying. Kempe is a great example of what I was trying to identify as well.

 

[effen]

I can see what you're saying.

I would push back on Lawson Crouse who runs around and looks like he's doing things but produces shit analytics most of the time, but I don't like to get caught up in examples.

What you're saying is, I think, we need guys who defenders are afraid of. Panarin and Zibanejad are good at things. But they're very much "last touch" guys - Zibanejad with his elite shot and Panarin with his passing. But they're not guys that defenders see coming at them and go "oh boy..."

Let me posit this. In basketball you basically have scorers, bigs, and iso guys who can penetrate the defense. Of course your elite players can do more than one. Steph Curry can penetrate and shoot from anywhere. Giannis is a big who can score. But I digress. Point is, you have the retrievers, the finishers, and the penetrators.

We have great finishers in Zibanejad and Panarin. Panarin obviously not in terms of shooting but he makes the pass before it goes in. You know what I mean. The problem with finishers is, they go as the team is going. Kreider is a retriever and he's arguably the best in the league at it. @DanielBrassard said it - he's one of the premier possession-drivers in a generation. I stand by Kreider. I said it the other day - he's so dominant along the boards that he looks like he's not doing anything. It's easy for him to get possession from NHL defenders. Kakko can also be that player. The problem is, a good retriever is not putting goals up without other things going right.

This team has absolutely no penetrators. There's nobody who can beat guys 1v1 with hands and speed. Kane absolutely used to be, and I think that goal in game 2 is exactly what we're talking about, but at his age, he can't do it all the time and is a finisher most nights. I will say that I understood the logic behind the trade and it's hopefully a sign that Drury sees the need.

Even if Lafreniere and Kakko panned out, Kakko was arguably always going to be a retriever and Lafreniere was always going to be a finisher. Neither of them skate well enough to start the play.

There's nothing wrong with that. Jason Robertson, Leon Draisaitl, and David Pastrnak are finishers. Top notch players. The key is, their teams have guys that can do the things they can't.

We have the guys that go in and get it and we have the guys that can be dangerous in the zone. We have nobody to start the play with energy, chaos, and danger. As you said, I think the best penetrator on this team is Chytil, and God bless him, that's not good enough on a contending roster.

We need to add that element. And don't get me wrong, you don't need to be all-world to bring it. Roope Hintz, Carter Verhaeghe, Adrian Kempe, and even Bryan Rust are less-than Hart-level players who can create with their feet and hands.

The Rangers need to stop chasing yesterday's news, especially in a cap league, and do what Tampa, Colorado, Dallas, LA, and even Buffalo have been good at - identify and develop these guys before they're these guys. It's doable. They did it with Zibanejad, just with a different play style.

I like the analysis and I can't help but think it got identified by David Quinn basically immediately as the team had rush offense and caveman dig -> point shot as their as their offense stylistically while the board was yelling about how he knew nothing and why our offense sucked sometimes. And why he got so mad at E/W shit when it was inappropriate. Sometimes I miss you @will1066 .

 

[will1066]

I like the analysis and I can't help but think it got identified by David Quinn basically immediately as the team had rush offense and caveman dig -> point shot as their as their offense stylistically while the board was yelling about how he knew nothing and why our offense sucked sometimes. And why he got so mad at E/W shit when it was inappropriate. Sometimes I miss you @will1066 .

I'm here dude

 

[nsvoyageurs]

It's unreal how inept they have become . I sometime think there has been some internal strife.....the guys are not even being physical for the most part . I think overall they are unhappy with the addition of Tarasenko and Cane , especially the latter. But....who really knows ? They could easily enough come back and win 2 straight .

They could win these next 2, but I'm not exactly betting on it. I liked this team's chances a lot more before the trade deadline than do now.

Whatever the issues are, they need to be addressed and corrected in the offseason. How they do this is the question; players with NMC/NTCs are hard to move; they have contracts that not many teams have the cap space to take on (the cap not expected to increase much, unless made official otherwise).

I didn't mind the Tarasenko deal, but the Kane deal was clearly a mistake (and thought so at the time.) I do NOT re-sign Kane this summer. Tarasenko I'm iffy on. Panarin HAS to go, but with the NMC, this will be nearly impossible without management making life so miserable that he says "Bleep this; get me out of here". Trouba, with his 8M cap hit for another 6-7 years and his wife's job, is highly unlikely to waive his NMC.

I think Goodrow being moved this offseason is a forgone conclusion, to create some cap space (you're not wanting much back in return).

I'm not saying they should go back into a rebuild, because I know they won't. They need to evaluate whey they have struggled to develop high end skill forwards. This is on Chris Drury and the coaching/development staffs.

The only good thing for the Rangers is Jim Dolan is likely too busy paying attention to the Knicks to care/know what's going on with his hockey team. Should the team lose tonight and look bad in doing it, a major evaluation of what's gone on here will need to be made, but I doubt even that would happen. It's one thing to play hard and lose, but to lose and basically not show up is something else; it's unacceptable. This needs to be addressed.

 

[Ruggs225]

Trouba, with his 8M cap hit for another 6-7 years and his wife's job, is highly unlikely to waive his NMC.

Trouba has 3 years left. Same as panarin.

Kreider, goodrow and chytil have 4.

 

[duhmetreE]

Buffalo locked up Tage and Cozens for 14.25M. NJ has Hughes and Hischier for 15.25M. Ottawa has Stutzle and Tkachuk at 16.5M. Dallas has Hintz and Robertson at 16.2M. We have Panarin at nearly 12M. When Panarin, Kreider and Zibanejad have moved on what are we paying to bring in replacements? Grow them yourself, you can keep them at reasonable prices - import them at 27 years old and you’re outbidding everyone else and only getting 4-5 prime years if you’re lucky.

The kids coming along slowly would have been less than ideal but okay. The kids aren’t coming along at all. They will never be these players. 1 and 2 overall. 7 and 9 are already gone for peanuts. Until we can grow a forward or two of this caliber ourselves, we will not succeed in a cap league. Next year Panarin alone makes between 2.7M and 4.9M less than any of those duos, by himself, and I would take any of those players individually over Panarin in 1/100th of a heartbeat.

to be fair, Hintz, Robertson and Thompson all came on at or around 24 years of age.

If Laffy, Kakko and Chytil stagnate for a few more years... yes we have major problems. The top priority should be to get them online. I do not see the org helping them much.