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Roster Building Thread V (2022-23): Cheese and WINE

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Machinehead said:
The last seven Cup winners -Colorado, Tampa, Tampa again, St. Louis, Washington, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh again- all had their cores fail time and time again in the playoffs before they won, some of them in way more abysmal fashion than anything we've done.

If you really think we should move on from Panarin, especially cap reasons, I respect that opinion, but I'm not sure if the "can't get it done" label holds any water. All the teams and players winning all the Cups couldn't get it done until they did.
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A core 'failing' and a core 'not producing' are two distinct and different things.

Panarin is not producing for the 2nd straight playoffs. It's only 4 games, we hope he turns it around. He's the highest paid player on the team ( by far ) and the 2nd highest paid player in the league.

He's a big part on why we're 'failing'.

If Panarin was 'failing' like MacKinnon, Kucherov, Point, Crosby or Malkin, we wouldn't be having this converstation.
 
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duhmetreE said:
A core 'failing' and a core 'not producing' are two distinct and different things.

Panarin is not producing for the 2nd straight playoffs. It's only 4 games, we hope he turns it around. He's the highest paid player on the team ( by far ) and the 2nd highest paid player in the league.

He's a big part on why we're 'failing'.

If Panarin was 'failing' like MacKinnon, Kucherov, Point, Crosby or Malkin, we wouldn't be having this converstation.
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Verifiable bullshit.

Kucherov had a first round exit where he scored zero goals. Malkin had a first round exit where he scored zero points. That was against the Rangers. Ovechkin is below PPG in the playoffs. From 2012 through 2017 Ovechkin had 21 goals and 40 points in 60 playoffs games.
 
Machinehead said:
Verifiable bullshit.

Kucherov had a first round exit where he scored zero goals. Malkin had a first round exit where he scored zero points. That was against the Rangers. Ovechkin is below PPG in the playoffs. From 2012 through 2017 Ovechkin had 21 goals and 40 points in 60 playoffs games.
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LOL get cised.

Yes, Panarin, at 31, getting paid $12M in a hard flat cap and not producing anywhere near his capability is not an issue.

you can cherry pick all the stats you want.

Panarin is our top forward. All those teams that won, their top forward was leading the way or played a massive part in it. Panarin is drowning right now. Panarin NEEDS TO BE THE GUY at that cap hit. He hasn't been, over the past 24 Playoff Games as a New York Ranger.

You think/hope he turns it around? Cool, me too. To say he's not a big part of the problem is verifiably asinine.
 
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Machinehead said:
Verifiable bullshit.

Kucherov had a first round exit where he scored zero goals. Malkin had a first round exit where he scored zero points. That was against the Rangers. Ovechkin is below PPG in the playoffs. From 2012 through 2017 Ovechkin had 21 goals and 40 points in 60 playoffs games.
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are they the turnover machine that panarin is? do they play defense, do they go into the corners and fight for the puck? all things that panarin does not do. All things that are necessary in the playoffs to be successful. He has been horrible in his tenure as a ranger in the playoffs. The playoffs are about doing the little things that make a difference,. Panarin does not
 
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Machinehead said:
I still wanna try Miller-Fox.

I know Lindgren-Fox is proven but I think Miller and Fox's skillsets are yin and yang. You could always go back to Lindgren-Fox so there's no risk.

In a small sample, Miller-Fox have a 64% xGF and a 66% ass corsi. They have the potential to be one of the most dominant pairs ever.

Lindgren is extremely sound defensively with or without Fox and I think he and some dollar store undersized PMD could make a great better-than-the-sum second pair.
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I would love to see Lindgren-Jones

also everyone desperate for a middle of the ice grit play driver...well, we had a chance to trade for Timo Meier and nobody on this forum wanted to except me.
 
Chalfdiggity3 said:
are they the turnover machine that panarin is? do they play defense, do they go into the corners and fight for the puck? all things that panarin does not do. All things that are necessary in the playoffs to be successful. He has been horrible in his tenure as a ranger in the playoffs. The playoffs are about doing the little things that make a difference,. Panarin does not
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Dude, one of the players I mentioned is Alex Ovechkin :laugh:
 
duhmetreE said:
LOL get cised.

Yes, Panarin, at 31, getting paid $12M in a hard flat cap and not producing anywhere near his capability is not an issue.

you can cherry pick all the stats you want.

Panarin is our top forward. All those teams that won, their top forward was leading the way or played a massive part in it. Panarin is drowning right now. Panarin NEEDS TO BE THE GUY at that cap hit. He hasn't been, over the past 24 Playoff Games as a New York Ranger.

You think/hope he turns it around? Cool, me too. To say he's not a big part of the problem is verifiably asinine.
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I'm saying I hope it turns around. I said it did for others and provided evidence.

Apparently that's not cool because you seem really mad about it.
 
zlev said:
I would love to see Lindgren-Jones

also everyone desperate for a middle of the ice grit play driver...well, we had a chance to trade for Timo Meier and nobody on this forum wanted to except me.
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Yeah well Timo Meier has don't nothing in this series but dive, whine, and not score, so there's that.
 
Machinehead said:
Dude, one of the players I mentioned is Alex Ovechkin :laugh:
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Ill take ovy over panarin all day every day. Especially in the playoffs.

I hope they turn it around i really do. Im a fan through and through but being at that game 4 and having to bear witness to that atrocity of a hockey game, just has me really down on this team. I was expecting a game, fun, atmosphere, hits, scrums, life, energy, anything and instead what we got in the garden was smacked in the face by our own team. That being the last thing that we've seen this team be especially in person leaves a bitter lasting impression.
 
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Chalfdiggity3 said:
Ill take ovy over panarin all day every day. Especially in the playoffs.
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I mean, so would I, but the guy's a massive floater, is 10th in giveaways since 2008, and is arguably the worst defensive player of all-time.

He's outstanding at what he does but he's extremely one-dimensional and occasionally throwing a highlight-reel hit is the only reason anybody thinks otherwise.

If he can eventually succeed in the playoffs, then other players fitting that profile can.
 
Machinehead said:
Yeah if Panarin agrees to waive to the Panthers, and there's one bidder, they're definitely gonna offer Bennett + Forsling for his entire contract.

I'll make sure that gets done when I'm named GM after the playoffs.
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Ok, we have to remind the President to fire the GM.
 
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Machinehead said:
I'm saying I hope it turns around. I said it did for others and provided evidence.

Apparently that's not cool because you seem really mad about it.
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We all hope he turns it around because it'd mean the team is winning.

The evidence you provided, 'other teams' struggled. Their star players did not struggle. Ovi is the one outlier. If you want to say Panarin will be like Ovi, ok.... I guess?

Panarin needs to be like Kucherov.
 
Say it with me folks, Artemi Panarin is not getting traded

Contract and clause impossibilities aside, trading the one of the few guys who has an ounce of skill seems like a sure fire winning move
 
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Oscar Lindberg said:
Say it with me folks, Artemi Panarin is not getting traded

Contract and clause impossibilities aside, trading the one of the few guys who has an ounce of skill seems like a sure fire winning move
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How is it a winning move to carry an overly expensive player who is a dud come playoff time? I don't care about regular season PP points. Panarin is paid to be THE GUY on offense, especially in the playoffs, and he is so far from it is not even funny. Yes he is supremely skilled, but he struggles mightily to make that skill count in these important games. There are 2-3 very important games coming up for Mr. Bread.
 
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CLW said:
How is it a winning move to carry an overly expensive player who is a dud come playoff time? I don't care about regular season PP points. Panarin is paid to be THE GUY on offense, especially in the playoffs, and he is so far from it is not even funny. Yes he is supremely skilled, but he struggles mightily to make that skill count in these important games. There are 2-3 very important games coming up for Mr. Bread.
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As has been mentioned, these guys are labeled “duds” in the playoffs until they’re not.

Panarin could easily have 3 points next game and no one will be complaining
 
Machinehead said:
Yeah well Timo Meier has don't nothing in this series but dive, whine, and not score, so there's that.
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It surprised me to learn Meier has no points this series yet. He's been very "active." 15 shots and 16 hits in 4 games.
 
duhmetreE said:
We all hope he turns it around because it'd mean the team is winning.

The evidence you provided, 'other teams' struggled. Their star players did not struggle. Ovi is the one outlier. If you want to say Panarin will be like Ovi, ok.... I guess?

Panarin needs to be like Kucherov.
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There are plenty besides Ovechkin. That's just scratching the surface.

Bergeron and Marchand are not that good in the playoffs. Kopitar was good the two Cup runs and terrible otherwise; 9 points in 18 games in 2013. Kane was terrible in 2013 and they won the Cup anyway.

You know who sucked in the playoffs until like his 35th playoff game? Henrik Lundqvist.

You keep saying "we all hope he turns it around" but you refuse any notion that he will and it's probably just a bad sample. The playoffs are inherently a bad sample.
 
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Machinehead said:
There are plenty besides Ovechkin. That's just scratching the surface.

Bergeron and Marchand are not that good in the playoffs. Kopitar was good the two Cup runs and terrible otherwise; 9 points in 18 games in 2013. Kane was terrible in 2013 and they won the Cup anyway.

You know who sucked in the playoffs until like his 35th playoff game? Henrik Lundqvist.

You keep saying "we all hope he turns it around" but you refuse any notion that he will and it's probably just a bad sample. The playoffs are inherently a bad sample.
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You're talking about proven performers having off years. Panarin hasn't proven much in the Playoffs.

Kopitar's 'bad season' is sandwiched in between 2 cup runs.
Bergeron was never a big producer. He sits around his normal production in the playoffs.
Marchad had a really strong rookie playoff campaign and won a cup?
LOL I wish Panarin was as terrible as Kane in 2013. If Panarin scored 9 even strength goals, we're golden.

You're still trying to force this narrative. It's not comparable to Panarin.

He's 31 years old. He's not a kid. He's not proven in the playoffs. He does not get the benefit of the doubt. His game has degenerated over the past 3 seasons... He needs to be way, way, way better. Hasn't been the same since getting paid, covid, GQ NY lifestyle and/or getting hurt. ( pick one or three )
 
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duhmetreE said:
You're talking about proven performers having off years. Panarin hasn't proven much in the Playoffs.

Kopitar's 'bad season' is sandwiched in between 2 cup runs.
Bergeron was never a big producer. He sits around his normal production in the playoffs.
Marchad had a really strong rookie playoff campaign and won a cup?
LOL I wish Panarin was as terrible as Kane in 2013. If Panarin scored 9 even strength goals, we're golden.

You're still trying to force this narrative. It's not comparable to Panarin.

He's 31 years old. He's not a kid. He's not proven in the playoffs. He does not get the benefit of the doubt. His game has degenerated over the past 3 seasons... He needs to be way, way, way better. Hasn't been the same since getting paid, covid, GQ NY lifestyle and/or getting hurt. ( pick one or three )
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It's always something.

You want him to fail because he's a skilled player.
 
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