Roster Building Thread V (2022-23): Cheese and WINE

[NYR Viper]

I don't like Trocheck defensively. He can probably run his mouth better than Copp can, but that's about it.

edit: also Copp had better decision making about when to pass and when to shoot. Trocheck will shoot every time even if he has a much better passing option. Tunnel vision.

Trochek is much more suited to pushing the pace and attacking defenders one on one whioch creates havoc all over the ice. The Rangers need more players like that, not less. The Kid Line does this effectively and so does Trochek. That's about it

 

[bhamill]

You have a very generous way of saying "3rd liners" but I more or less agree on the return you proposed.

Kids should move up regardless. The question is will they take that step? I think next year is a big year for Kakko and Laf, I think they will. If they don't it'll be troublesome. Not saying they have to COMPLETE their development at 22 & 23 respectively, but need to show significant progress. Hard to replace Panarin's reg season scoring. Even this version.

 

[The Gloaming]

Trochek is much more suited to pushing the pace and attacking defenders one on one whioch creates havoc all over the ice. The Rangers need more players like that, not less. The Kid Line does this effectively and so does Trochek. That's about it

Sure he does. I like him, I just think they need another top 9 utility guy. I wouldn't exactly call Vinny a utility guy. One utility guy and one net crasher/shit sturrer.

 

[cwede]

... Schneider may have hit John Moore/Brady Skjei territory. IE the Rangers don't see him developing the way they thought, and so he becomes trade bait.
He's probably worth a high 2nd rounder at the very least.

i cannot see a way that NYR's next many seasons would be better with Schneider moved

 

[bhamill]

Trochek is much more suited to pushing the pace and attacking defenders one on one whioch creates havoc all over the ice. The Rangers need more players like that, not less. The Kid Line does this effectively and so does Trochek. That's about it

Agreed

 

[NYR Viper]

Sure he does. I like him, I just think they need another top 9 utility guy. I wouldn't exactly call Vinny a utility guy. One utility guy and one net crasher/shit sturrer.

I don't disagree about a utility guy but that guy SHOULD be Kaako. If Gallant would just use him...

I would like to see the team add a couple of guys who excel at playing with pace. I think it's clear Drury wants to develop those guys. Cuylle, Berard, Othmann. They added Motte and Mikkola at the deadline who are not overtly physical but definitely guys who play a higher intensity grinding style.

 

[The Gloaming]

I don't disagree about a utility guy but that guy SHOULD be Kaako. If Gallant would just use him...

I would like to see the team add a couple of guys who excel at playing with pace. I think it's clear Drury wants to develop those guys. Cuylle, Berard, Othmann. They added Motte and Mikkola at the deadline who are not overtly physical but definitely guys who play a higher intensity grinding style.

Good point about Kakko. He and Copp have some similarities. I mean, you would hope that a2nd overall pick can be as good as Andrew Copp, but here we are, wondering if he can. Maybe next year they can get him on the PK so he can be more involved in games. 2nd unit PP also.

 

[NYR Viper]

Good point about Kakko. He and Copp have some similarities. I mean, you would hope that a2nd overall pick can be as good as Andrew Copp, but here we are, wondering if he can. Maybe next year they can get him on the PK so he can be more involved in games. 2nd unit PP also.

He is already better than Copp. The kid needs minutes. He should be a primary PKer and a 2nd unit PP guy right now.

I really don't understand what the coaching staff was waiting for with Kaako. He's an elite defensive and puck possession player.

I'd like to find a younger version of Blake Coleman or Conor Garland. Although honestly someone like Garland may be bought out this off-season so perhaps they can get him on the cheap.

 

[haohmaru]

I really don't understand what the coaching staff was waiting for with Kaako. He's an elite defensive and puck possession player.

I don't think the problem is moving Kakko up, let's say, to play with Kreider/Zibanejad

I think the problem is the gaping hole you leave on the 3rd line moving a defensively liable Kane there along with Chytil and Lafreniere. That's a line you're probably not comfortable throwing out there every 3rd shift.

 

[NYR Viper]

I don't think the problem is moving Kakko up, let's say, to play with Kreider/Zibanejad

I think the problem is the gaping hole you leave on the 3rd line moving a defensively liable Kane there along with Chytil and Lafreniere. That's a line you're probably not comfortable throwing out there every 3rd shift.

No arguments based on this lineup but earlier in the year? He should have been playing 18+ minutes a night with ample PK time.

I would also not be completely fearful of a Lafreniere-Trochek-Kane line. Something like:

Kreider-Zibanejad-Kaako
Panarin-Chytil-Tarasenko
Lafreniere-Trochek-Kane

 

[haohmaru]

No arguments based on this lineup but earlier in the year? He should have been playing 18+ minutes a night with ample PK time.

I would also not be completely fearful of a Lafreniere-Trochek-Kane line. Something like:

Kreider-Zibanejad-Kaako
Panarin-Chytil-Tarasenko
Lafreniere-Trochek-Kane

Yeah, I dunno. I mean, you can't really take Kreider/Zibanejad off the PK because of the SH threat. Maybe 2nd line PK before acquiring Motte w/Goodrow but Vesey is a pretty good PK'er too.

If anything, I'd like to slot him in LaF's spot on PP2 *right now*.

 

[bhamill]

He is already better than Copp. The kid needs minutes. He should be a primary PKer and a 2nd unit PP guy right now.

I really don't understand what the coaching staff was waiting for with Kaako. He's an elite defensive and puck possession player.

I'd like to find a younger version of Blake Coleman or Conor Garland. Although honestly someone like Garland may be bought out this off-season so perhaps they can get him on the cheap.

This. Copp in his D+10 and Kakko in his D+4 had very similar scoring, and Kakko is already better at everything else.
People really downgrade how good some of these guys are simply due to disappointment over draft position expectations.

 

[bleedblue94]

i don't understand the hate our defense gets here for not being able to move the puck. i see it a lot but it often feels like a lot of posters here don't understand that if the forwards are not in good positions with good routes to be able to accept passes then the defense literally cant effectively move the puck to the. Do people think miller wants the wingers standing flat footed just past the redline for a hard pass chip play? Do people think that is his preference or that possibly that is what they are being instructed to do or is the only option based on the poor movement and structure of the forwards in the NZ?

I remember when torts was here and we played the lob off the glass breakout for years and everyone thoughts our d was incapable of making a breakout pass or moving the puck, then AV came in here and changed the breakouts and transition and suddenly we were a functional team in that manner (with a horrific defensive scheme) and able to get the puck up the ice well. The main players hardly changed at all during AVs first year here but suddenly the transition worked, and I say this as someone that hated AV and his hands off BS coaching, but when it came to transitioning the puck out of the zone he was good at that.

I don't for a second believe that Adam Fox is the only d man we have capable of effectively transitioning the puck, I do believe that the team adjusts when he has the puck differently then they do when other pairings are out there.

Turk has flat out said at times that there are different requirements on this team for certain players.

 

[Fitzy]

This. Copp in his D+10 and Kakko in his D+4 had very similar scoring, and Kakko is already better at everything else.
People really downgrade how good some of these guys are simply due to disappointment over draft position expectations.

Kakko is an absolute untouchable on this roster given our weakness at RW, along with all the other things he brings.

 

[NYR Viper]

Yeah, I dunno. I mean, you can't really take Kreider/Zibanejad off the PK because of the SH threat. Maybe 2nd line PK before acquiring Motte w/Goodrow but Vesey is a pretty good PK'er too.

If anything, I'd like to slot him in LaF's spot on PP2 *right now*.

Depending on the way the game was going, Kaako should have been getting that PK time over Kreider honestly. That's not to say Kreider shouldn't PK, but there should have been numerous circumstances where they should flip flop. If the game has a lot of PP's, Kaako should be PKing. If Kreider or any one of Kreider, Vesey, Zibanejad or Goodrow were in the penalty box he should have been PKing.

Looking at the stats:

Kreider had 130 minutes of PK time

As a comparison Trochek had 65 minutes

Kaako had 36 minutes.

I would have hoped, and I realize this may be splitting hairs, to see Kaako somewhere in between Trochek and Kreider in terms of TOI on the PK.

Hell, even if they rolled 3 pairings and it was:

Kreider-Zibanejad
Vesey-Goodrow
Kaako-Trochek

It's about keeping guys engaged and feeling the puck

 

[bhamill]

Kakko is an absolute untouchable on this roster given our weakness at RW, along with all the other things he brings.

I wouldn't use the word untouchable, but unless you get an good overpayment for where he is right now, I wouldn't do it.

 

[bleedblue94]

That's Vince Trocheck.

He's been bad in this series but in his defense, Gallant keeps trying him and Panarin which I've never been crazy about.

Kreider-Trocheck-Kane were a line for like 20 seconds in this series and they scored.

There is an argument to be made that they would have been better suited to sign copp instead of vinny. they never made him an offer. all we hear is vinny is better than strome (duh) but I dont think the vinny vs copp thing is really looked at much for some reason.

copp is a year younger, signed for the same cap hit for two less seasons, with a limited no trade for the duration vs vinny getting full nmc for three years and then a m-ntc after that.

did drury make the right decision to not offer copp a contract? before people reference stats this year i would hope they take into account the team/skill each played with this year, the roles they had (pp1vs ?), and what copp did here when he played with panarin and our skilled players: 18pts in 16 reg season games, 14pts in 20 playoff games while injured

 

[bleedblue94]

Kakko is an absolute untouchable on this roster given our weakness at RW, along with all the other things he brings.

the term untouchable gets tossed around way too much. the only really untouchable player on this roster is fox. mika and igor are prob the next two (1c, 1d, 1g). there are plenty that make little to no sense to trade, but fox is really the only untouchable asset this org has

 

[The Gloaming]

There is an argument to be made that they would have been better suited to sign copp instead of vinny. they never made him an offer. all we hear is vinny is better than strome (duh) but I dont think the vinny vs copp thing is really looked at much for some reason.

copp is a year younger, signed for the same cap hit for two less seasons, with a limited no trade for the duration vs vinny getting full nmc for three years and then a m-ntc after that.

did drury make the right decision to not offer copp a contract? before people reference stats this year i would hope they take into account the team/skill each played with this year, the roles they had (pp1vs ?), and what copp did here when he played with panarin and our skilled players: 18pts in 16 reg season games, 14pts in 20 playoff games while injured

People are really underrating Copp here. Great hockey sense that I'm not sure Kakko has. Being able to make the smart play quickly is a huge component of hockey.

 

[Machinehead]

There is an argument to be made that they would have been better suited to sign copp instead of vinny. they never made him an offer. all we hear is vinny is better than strome (duh) but I dont think the vinny vs copp thing is really looked at much for some reason.

copp is a year younger, signed for the same cap hit for two less seasons, with a limited no trade for the duration vs vinny getting full nmc for three years and then a m-ntc after that.

did drury make the right decision to not offer copp a contract? before people reference stats this year i would hope they take into account the team/skill each played with this year, the roles they had (pp1vs ?), and what copp did here when he played with panarin and our skilled players: 18pts in 16 reg season games, 14pts in 20 playoff games while injured

I don't think Copp is the offensive player Trocheck is. Yes, Copp finished with great totals as a Ranger, but he shot 25%.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'd take Trochek who is a natural center, over Copp who is a natural winger.

 

[bobbop]

They are all truths. Panarin is trash in the playoffs, a turnover machine who is rubbing off on every other player in the locker room with his idc attitude. Get him the f*** off the team and get players who can play.. 2 2nd line players and a 1st. make the salary work and fill the team with hard nosed players that can play

Yeah right

 

[Machinehead]

The last seven Cup winners -Colorado, Tampa, Tampa again, St. Louis, Washington, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh again- all had their cores fail time and time again in the playoffs before they won, some of them in way more abysmal fashion than anything we've done.

If you really think we should move on from Panarin, especially cap reasons, I respect that opinion, but I'm not sure if the "can't get it done" label holds any water. All the teams and players winning all the Cups couldn't get it done until they did.

 

[bleedblue94]

I don't think Copp is the offensive player Trocheck is. Yes, Copp finished with great totals as a Ranger, but he shot 25%.

I dont think either is a terribly good offensive player, but regarding the fit here I think copp fit better. i firmly believe the trocheck move was based on specifically wanting a N/S player to compensate for panarin's E/W game and provide some slot drive/presence. The problem is that those kind of players typically just dont work with panarin. It isn't a coincidence that the player he best gelled with here was another E/W player. strome and he fit each other. strome has been bad basically anywhere else in his NHL career, but sometimes players just gel. I think copp fit here

 

[Chytilmania]

i don't understand the hate our defense gets here for not being able to move the puck. i see it a lot but it often feels like a lot of posters here don't understand that if the forwards are not in good positions with good routes to be able to accept passes then the defense literally cant effectively move the puck to the. Do people think miller wants the wingers standing flat footed just past the redline for a hard pass chip play? Do people think that is his preference or that possibly that is what they are being instructed to do or is the only option based on the poor movement and structure of the forwards in the NZ?

I remember when torts was here and we played the lob off the glass breakout for years and everyone thoughts our d was incapable of making a breakout pass or moving the puck, then AV came in here and changed the breakouts and transition and suddenly we were a functional team in that manner (with a horrific defensive scheme) and able to get the puck up the ice well. The main players hardly changed at all during AVs first year here but suddenly the transition worked, and I say this as someone that hated AV and his hands off BS coaching, but when it came to transitioning the puck out of the zone he was good at that.

I don't for a second believe that Adam Fox is the only d man we have capable of effectively transitioning the puck, I do believe that the team adjusts when he has the puck differently then they do when other pairings are out there.

Turk has flat out said at times that there are different requirements on this team for certain players.

And the team plays differently with Igor in net. They fly up the ice waiting for a pass as opposed to when we had Hank and Georgie that one season.