Roster Building Thread V (2022-23): Cheese and WINE

[mas0764]

He can't choose his spot. If he gets moved, there are teams that have the need/assets to move that we don't as you said.

Like Carolina would make all the sense in the world in that regard.

If we're talking about UFA, thats a different story but thats still a bit away and they'd need to clear a ton of salary to do that. Not sure its even worth it at that point.

The hypo was freeing up the salary by moving out some combination of Trouba, Kreider, and Chytil (but not all three).

The answer is yes to that. All 31 other teams make that exchange or it's equivalent. Not a single GM turns down that scenario. It's Auston Matthews. He's like Draisaitl and MacKinnon tier right below the best player in hockey, McDavid.

This is like the ridiculous anti-Panarin stance that people had back in the day. You do whatever it takes to get him. The people who say "but we will be weak on D if we lose Trouba," aren't seeing the forest for the trees. You get the irreplaceable superstar and then figure out the rest.

But yes, it's unlikely because Matthews probably isn't going to narrow his list down to NY based teams only and then give us a discount to come here like Panarin did.

The problem with having a ton of high priced players who sign UFA deals, is that you then lack cap flexibility and depth.
The leafs are experiencing this very problem.
They have no goaltending.

Everyone is forgetting that shesty only has 2 more years on his deal. So yeah we could make room for matthews, if we let shesty walk. Because shesty is going to get far more on his deal than 5.6 for a completely UFA deal.

Or you suffer for a year and then deal 33 year old Panarin and have 27 year old Matthews instead.

You get the star and then figure it out.

Do we want Matthews if he's available? The answer is yes. Outside of MAYBE Adam Fox there is no player you don't move to accomodate him, really.

If it's Trouba, a player who is drastically overrated and overpaid, yeah, you ship his ass out in a heartbeat to accomodate Matthews. Then if you still need a defender you figure out the next step as you go.

 

[bhamill]

Is there a rule against that?

Assuming in 2024-2025 season the cap is around 88mm

Panarin (11.6) -Mika (8.5) -Chytil (4.4)
Laff (3) -Matthews (12.5)-Kakko (4)
Kreider (6.5)-trocheck (5.6) -othmann (elc)
Cuylle (elc)-bjugstad (1.5) -vesey (800)

Lindgren (4)-fox(9.5)
Kandre (4)-schneider(2.2)
Jones (850)-vet 6d (justin schultz) (1.25)

That would be under the cap. In fact you might not even have to trade chytil looking at it now, just trouba. And then move chytil to wing which I think hed be a natural RW which solves a big issue for you.

If you wouldnt sign up for that 2024-2025 lineup youre smoking crack

Honestly it looks great on paper. But I'd reserve my judgement until at least after the playoffs this year to see how he plays. Yes I know the Leaf"s failures are a TEAM thing but his individual play in the playoffs has not wowed me. He's got this year and next to change that. If he doesn't at least stand out in the playoffs I would personally go a different way. That's me. And I'd imagine the Leafs WILL extend him anyway.

 

[mas0764]

Honestly it looks great on paper. But I'd reserve my judgement until at least after the playoffs this year to see how he plays. Yes I know the Leaf"s failures are a TEAM thing but his individual play in the playoffs has not wowed me. He's got this year and next to change that. If he doesn't at least stand out in the playoffs I would personally go a different way. That's me. And I'd imagine the Leafs WILL extend him anyway.

The Leafs will do everything to extend him because he's one of the 5 best players in hockey. Marner, Tavares or Nylander will be moved first, if they have to move anyone. Matthews is going nowhere.

But in the hypothetical where he became available and we could move some combination of Trouba and/or Kreider to get him? Yes. Drury does it.

Every GM does it.

Just a few Rangers fans with emotional attachments to our current players or old-timey "he hasn't proven it in the playoffs yet, so I'll take the guy who scores 50% less" views would say no.

 

[NYR Viper]

The guy to go for isn't Matthews, it's Aho. For just a multitude of reasons Aho fits this team like a glove

 

[IDvsEGO]

The guy to go for isn't Matthews, it's Aho. For just a multitude of reasons Aho fits this team like a glove

Why are we trying to fill a position thats currently a strength on the team...
We're currently 3 deep on 93-16-72.
Thats a top 5 center depth in the league.

Our position of weakness right now is RW depth.
After Kakko, we don't have another top 6 RW.
Id like to keep tarasenko but not sure we can afford it via the cap.

 

[bhamill]

The Leafs will do everything to extend him because he's one of the 5 best players in hockey. Marner, Tavares or Nylander will be moved first, if they have to move anyone. Matthews is going nowhere.

But in the hypothetical where he became available and we could move some combination of Trouba and/or Kreider to get him? Yes. Drury does it.

Every GM does it.

Just a few Rangers fans with emotional attachments to our current players or old-timey "he hasn't proven it in the playoffs yet, so I'll take the guy who scores 50% less" views would say no.

Well that doesn't REALLY characterize my view. It's not about emotional attachment to players its about what I personally think would help us win the CUP, not the President's Trophy. You can disagree, but you have me mischaracterized. Unless AM wows me in the playoffs, I'd hold off and try to snare McDavid. I also think he's much more likely to be available.

 

[mas0764]

Why are we trying to fill a position thats currently a strength on the team...

You always take an elite player if you can get him.

If this was a discussion about whether or not to move guys out to try to sign Elias Lindholm or Pierre Luc Dubois then the discussion of need and fit enters the picture.

Well that doesn't REALLY characterize my view. It's not about emotional attachment to players its about what I personally think would help us win the CUP, not the President's Trophy. You can disagree, but you have me mischaracterized. Unless AM wows me in the playoffs, I'd hold off and try to snare McDavid. I also think he's much more likely to be available.

If there is rational basis for assuming that McDavid is equally or more likely attainable then I agree completely.

But claiming "it's about what helps us win the Cup," and then choosing a mid level second pair defender over Auston Matthews, that just belies emotional attachment and not reason and rationality. You may feel it's not emotion, but then you're not thinking about it straight.

No one takes Trouba and Chytil over Matthews. No one.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

If the Ducks land Bedard and find a way to trade for Matthews, they could jump into playoff contention right away. Could Anaheim be a potential spot for Matthew's?

I hope he goes out west and not into our division.

 

[mas0764]

If the Ducks land Bedard and find a way to trade for Matthews, they could jump into playoff contention right away. Could Anaheim be a potential spot for Matthew's?

I hope he goes out west and not into our division.

Way more likely given that he's from, what, Arizona? You could easily see him bolting to California given his personality too.

But if they get Bedard and Matthews I'm calling on Zegras for sure.

 

[bhamill]

You always take an elite player if you can get him.

If this was a discussion about whether or not to move guys out to try to sign Elias Lindholm or Pierre Luc Dubois then the discussion of need and fit enters the picture.



If there is rational basis for assuming that McDavid is equally or more likely attainable then I agree completely.

But claiming "it's about what helps us win the Cup," and then choosing a mid level second pair defender over Auston Matthews, that just belies emotional attachment and not reason and rationality. You may feel it's not emotion, but then you're not thinking about it straight.

No one takes Trouba and Chytil over Matthews. No one.

Sure, but that's not what I did. I would not take Trouba and Chytil over Matthews in a vacuum. We agree there. Plus its really Mathews plus the return for Chytil and the return for Trouba... I think there's a WAY better chance that McDavid walks away from EDM, though. (unless they win there)

 

[NYR Viper]

Why are we trying to fill a position thats currently a strength on the team...
We're currently 3 deep on 93-16-72.
Thats a top 5 center depth in the league.

Our position of weakness right now is RW depth.
After Kakko, we don't have another top 6 RW.
Id like to keep tarasenko but not sure we can afford it via the cap.

If the team has the cap space to sign someone, signing Aho is a no-brainer. Slide Trochek or Chytil to wing, RW solved and they now have 4 top-6 centers on the team.

Aho is a special talent.

 

[mas0764]

The original question was, if Matthews is sending signals that he's leaving Toronto, do we go after him?

The answer is yes. From all 31 other GMs.

We do it if we have to move out guys like Trouba, Kreider, and Chytil to accomodate. We will find a way. So will all the other teams if he shows willingness to sign on the dotted line. You chase first, and then figure out who you are moving afterwards.

There isn't another answer here.

The slight caveat being, if you know or highly suspect McDavid is also leaving and is equally or more easily attainable. Or any of the other what, 3-4 other players who are similar age and talent level, such as MacKinnon or Elias Pettersson or something. That's it.

If the team has the cap space to sign someone, signing Aho is a no-brainer. Slide Trochek or Chytil to wing, RW solved and they now have 4 top-6 centers on the team.

Aho is a special talent.

Listen, I like Aho, but he falls more into the tier where I start asking if it makes sense.

Of course, is it switch out Trouba for him? Still yes.

 

[NYR Viper]

The original question was, if Matthews is sending signals that he's leaving Toronto, do we go after him?

The answer is yes. From all 31 other GMs.

We do it if we have to move out guys like Trouba, Kreider, and Chytil to accomodate. We will find a way. So will all the other teams if he shows willingness to sign on the dotted line. You chase first, and then figure out who you are moving afterwards.

There isn't another answer here.

The slight caveat being, if you know or highly suspect McDavid is also leaving and is equally or more easily attainable. Or any of the other what, 3-4 other players who are similar age and talent level, such as MacKinnon or Elias Pettersson or something. That's it.



Listen, I like Aho, but he falls more into the tier where I start asking if it makes sense.

Of course, is it switch out Trouba for him? Still yes.

Based on what this team would need moving forward, I'd rather sign Aho @ 7 years for $8m than Matthews at 7 years and $12.5m.

I really don't like Matthews' game away from the puck.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Based on what this team would need moving forward, I'd rather sign Aho @ 7 years for $8m than Matthews at 7 years and $12.5m.

I really don't like Matthews' game away from the puck.

Aho isnt getting 8 million. Try 10.

 

[NYR Viper]

Aho isnt getting 8 million. Try 10.

If he gets $10m, Matthews is getting $15m. My point stands

 

[IDvsEGO]

If he gets $10m, Matthews is getting $15m. My point stands

And you're still screwing yourself by reducing depth.

Im not saying Matthews is bad. But when you constantly go for UFA contracts, you lose depth.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Why are we trying to fill a position thats currently a strength on the team...
We're currently 3 deep on 93-16-72.
Thats a top 5 center depth in the league.

Our position of weakness right now is RW depth.
After Kakko, we don't have another top 6 RW.
Id like to keep tarasenko but not sure we can afford it via the cap.

You can never have enough quality centers. Never ever.

A 26 year old superstar center? Come on, lets not be silly here

Well that doesn't REALLY characterize my view. It's not about emotional attachment to players its about what I personally think would help us win the CUP, not the President's Trophy. You can disagree, but you have me mischaracterized. Unless AM wows me in the playoffs, I'd hold off and try to snare McDavid. I also think he's much more likely to be available.

If AM wants to come here when he hits ufa, you dont pass up the guaranteed top 5 player in HOPES that the #1 guy in the league MIGHT want to come here a few years later

 

[NYR Viper]

And you're still screwing yourself by reducing depth.

Im not saying Matthews is bad. But when you constantly go for UFA contracts, you lose depth.

In general, I understand the point here you're making but there are too many variables to make a definitive statement.

In two years, when Aho is a UFA, what if the Rangers find a landing spot for Trouba in a trade and Chytil stops progressing? What if Schneider stalls and is a trade chip to be used and requires a back-fill?

In theory, signing UFA's could also help with depth if the team trades current pieces for cheap current or future assets (prospects/picks) while also filling a hole with a 'free' asset.

It's the same general thinking that occurred when the Rangers traded Gomez for McDonagh + Higgins and then turned around to sign Gaborik.

Net exchange of assets was:

Gabork + McDonagh + Higgins

for

Gomez + some additional cap space (I think Higgins was making like $2m at the time)

For a team like the Rangers, this is honestly how they should operate. Leverage the attraction of playing in NY for an Original 6 franchise and continually back-fill talent

 

[IDvsEGO]

You can never have enough quality centers. Never ever.

A 26 year old superstar center? Come on, lets not be silly here


If AM wants to come here when he hits ufa, you dont pass up the guaranteed top 5 player in HOPES that the #1 guy in the league MIGHT want to come here a few years later

You can have too many quality centers when you have bad goaltending and no defense.
Look at the problems toronto is having now? I dont wanna be that team.

 

[bhamill]

You can never have enough quality centers. Never ever.

A 26 year old superstar center? Come on, lets not be silly here


If AM wants to come here when he hits ufa, you dont pass up the guaranteed top 5 player in HOPES that the #1 guy in the league MIGHT want to come here a few years later

Well, in all fairness, YOU don't. I just might take that gamble. Hahaha.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

You can have too many quality centers when you have bad goaltending and no defense.
Look at the problems toronto is having now? I dont wanna be that team.

How would we be that team?

 

[mas0764]

And you're still screwing yourself by reducing depth.

Im not saying Matthews is bad. But when you constantly go for UFA contracts, you lose depth.

Then you move out age 33 Panarin or someone else.

All stars like Matthews, McDavid, MacKinnon, #1 centers, are the most invaluable thing in hockey. Getting a guy like that at age 26 is the ultimate move. You reformulate your team around that.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Well, in all fairness, YOU don't. I just might take that gamble. Hahaha.

Its not even a gamble haha. Wed be able to afford both mcdavid and matthews if we wanted

 

[IDvsEGO]

Its not even a gamble haha. Wed be able to afford both mcdavid and matthews if we wanted

And then you have no wings and no defense and no goaltending.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

And then you have no wings and no defense and no goaltending.

Wed have igor, fox, lindgren, kam, schneider, etc . I can lay it out for you capfriendly wise if youd like me to.