Roster Building Thread V (2022-23): Cheese and WINE

[PuckLuck3043]

I mean, there's 4 moving parts here.

1) Lad and Kakko have developed slower than expected and their ceilings have dropped from an estimated 90 and 70 points to, more realistically, 70 and 55.

2) Kakko and Laf were the obvious draft choices in their respective slots. I wish we had traded down for Stutzle obviously but thats hindsight. Like 90% of GMS would have picked the same guys where they were.

3) Kakko and Laf would be scoring a bit more if they were in a situation more resembling the rosters of teams that typically win the lottery. (Remember how slow Adam Larsson's start to his career was, or the Sedin twins)

4) Impatience aside, many high draft picks are at least close to their ceilings at 22-23. Gretz's best seasons were 22, 23,24.

And then to do a General Turdgeson and just prattle on

5) The 3rd line roles for Kakko Laf and Chytil may have suppressed their offense, but does allow us to keep their RFA AAVs down at a time when we are facing severe austerity.

6) We will know for sure what the kids are by the time we have to make decisions on Trouba, Panarin, Kreider, ect. So the 'we don't know how good they will be' argument to me should be settles by summers of 2024 and 2025.


In any event, this team we have today is built to win a f***ing Stanley Cup, so to quote Keynes, in the long run we're all dead

Yup. Most top draft picks go to bottom feeder teams who generally feed the kids minutes and PP time so initially they get more of an opportunity to develop. I have no problem with the kids being the 3rd line since they get about 15 minutes a game and now some PP time. I think all 3 will be between 60 and 70 point players in a year or 2, which is absolutely fine, and I agree with your timeline of when we will really know.

 

[McRanger92]

Why are we complaining right now

No one is complaining, quite the opposite. It's the roster building thread so were just spitballing how to keep the best parts of the team together next year.

Mika March except March has been low-key going on for like 30 months.

182 points in his last 171 games.

Mika Messier

 

[duhmetreE]

I only hope that any major forward prospect we draft has the career Chris Kreider has had.

He's gonna score 400 goals. Like a hundred or so guys have done that in hockey history.

He needs to re-up like a Bergeron/Krejci after this contract is over. He'll be the leading Rangers Goal Scorer with ease. 500 not out of the question,

 

[IDvsEGO]

Who is saying Lafreniere is looking like a future 100 point player lol? 30-30 guy who plays with an edge maybe, but I'd be shocked if he ever cracked 90-100 outside of a freak outlier. Chytil has the deadly scoring touch Mika does but he has miles and miles to go to ever come close to Mika's(or Trocheck's for that matter) all around game. And how is Kakko going to score 30 goals without shooting? Try to keep your expectations in check at least, because now youre making me loook like I dont like the Kids haha

I dont think its out of the realm to say that kakko could hit 30 goals more than twice in his career with more than 15 minutes of ice time per game. Ck at 24 went from 15ish to 17ish and his production jumped.
Kakko is sitting in the 15 minutes per game range. Give him an extra 2 minutes per game and i'd imagine his production climbs as well.

 

[mrhockey193195]

He needs to re-up like a Bergeron/Krejci after this contract is over. He'll be the leading Rangers Goal Scorer with ease. 500 not out of the question,

Not out of the question, but extremely unlikely. He'd need to average 30 goals for the next 8 seasons.

 

[Machinehead]

Mika Messier

You know what?

You say that joking, but like...the body, the heart, the goal-scoring, the power, the 200-foot commitment, the clutch gene, can score from anywhere with his shot.

Messier had 10/10 edge and Zibanejad is like 1/10, but it's not a terrible comparison if you remove that one aspect.

Massive power-center who does everything and scores big goals.

Messier is decidedly better at pretty much of all of these things, don't get me wrong, and Zibanejad has none of the meanness (different times we live in), but the last centers to play this kind of style just in a hockey/skills respect are probably Messier and Lindros. He's that unique.

 

[duhmetreE]

Not out of the question, but extremely unlikely. He'd need to average 30 goals for the next 8 seasons.

If Pavelski is doing it, can't see why Kreider can't.

 

[mrhockey193195]

If Pavelski is doing it, can't see why Kreider can't.

Fair enough! I love Kreids, I think I'd easily bet on him hitting 400 but still not sure about 500. Health is the other element that's so hard to predict.

 

[Kovalev27]

Kreider prob score 40 again this year. And frankly that’s with him being completely snake bit for huge stretch this year. Could see him hit 50 again in the future

 

[Machinehead]

He needs to re-up like a Bergeron/Krejci after this contract is over. He'll be the leading Rangers Goal Scorer with ease. 500 not out of the question,

If he stays healthy and hits around 30 for the rest of this contract, 500 is within the realm of possibility.

I worry about his body because he's been hurt and big guys break down, but he's extremely adaptable and getting a bit slower hasn't phased him at all despite speed being one of his defining traits when he was younger.

For all the criticisms of Kreider, I found "low IQ" to be the most off-base. He has instincts you can't teach and knows exactly how to get the most out of what he can offer at any given time.

Even this year, he's adapted. He's playing his best defense in years and he's scored a number of goals this year where he actually jumped in late and was a second option. This is a guy who was the first guy in his entire career. And of course he can still do that and still stand in front when he needs to, but he's added an element of actually slowing himself down when the play calls for it.

Not the most skilled guy but an extremely high IQ on a great body and he's gotten the most out of it.

 

[haohmaru]

I only hope that any major forward prospect we draft has the career Chris Kreider has had.

He's gonna score 400 goals. Like a hundred or so guys have done that in hockey history.

“3rd line LW”

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not out of the question, but extremely unlikely. He'd need to average 30 goals for the next 8 seasons.

I'm not even sure he gets to 400.

He has only notched 30 plus the last 2 (I know hes come close a few other times and would have eclipsed the mark prior to last year if he had the GP to do so) but its asking a lot of him and assuming that there isn't a steep decline at some point over the next few years which is likely.

350+ and 1000 games out of him is still a massive boom with where he was selected. Back when he and Stepan were prospects, who would have guessed that it was him who would have the longer and more productive career?

 

[McRanger92]

You know what?

You say that joking, but like...the body, the heart, the goal-scoring, the power, the 200-foot commitment, the clutch gene, can score from anywhere with his shot.

Messier had 10/10 edge and Zibanejad is like 1/10, but it's not a terrible comparison if you remove that one aspect.

Massive power-center who does everything and scores big goals.

Messier is decidedly better at pretty much of all of these things, don't get me wrong, and Zibanejad has none of the meanness (different times we live in), but the last centers to play this kind of style just in a hockey/skills respect are probably Messier and Lindros. He's that unique.

I was dead serious. If Mika elbowed more guys in the head when they werent looking, they'd be the exact same player

 

[Kovalev27]

Goodrow and Lindgren would be gone for me.

You’d think couples with the space they will have you could make chytil Miller laf motte mikkola work on that alone.

That’s gotta be enough there to keep tarasenko too you’d hope. He’s not like a 7 mil player at this point. He’s gotta be looking at like a Trocheck cap hit for 5 years is my guess. The last few of which might be ugly.

The next question is would Kane stay on the cheap with an extension in place come January? Does it cost u kakko? It might. Do we have replacements for kakko? Yes

I’d much rather do that than lose chytil

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not even sure he gets to 400.

He has only notched 30 plus the last 2 (I know hes come close a few other times and would have eclipsed the mark prior to last year if he had the GP to do so) but its asking a lot of him and assuming that there isn't a steep decline at some point over the next few years which is likely.

350+ and 1000 games out of him is still a massive boom with where he was selected. Back when he and Stepan were prospects, who would have guessed that it was him who would have the longer and more productive career?

He's been averaging 35 goals per 82 games going back to 2017(!!!)

He has to play 82 games, I think that's the valid takeaway, but it's very overstated how much he's been putting up outlier numbers.

He's on pace for 37 this year and his shooting percentage is down 3 points from where it was the two years prior.

A 35-40 goal scorer is what he is.

 

[Machinehead]

I was dead serious. If Mika elbowed more guys in the head when they werent looking, they'd be the exact same player

I wouldn't be against it if I wanted to take that up but I love him just the same.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

No to trading Lindgren and I don't care what anybody says. He's a warrior, only 25, and Fox plays markedly better when his buddy is in the lineup.

 

[haohmaru]

If he stays healthy and hits around 30 for the rest of this contract, 500 is within the realm of possibility.

I worry about his body because he's been hurt and big guys break down, but he's extremely adaptable and getting a bit slower hasn't phased him at all despite speed being one of his defining traits when he was younger.

For all the criticisms of Kreider, I found "low IQ" to be the most off-base. He has instincts you can't teach and knows exactly how to get the most out of what he can offer at any given time.

Even this year, he's adapted. He's playing his best defense in years and he's scored a number of goals this year where he actually jumped in late and was a second option. This is a guy who was the first guy in his entire career. And of course he can still do that and still stand in front when he needs to, but he's added an element of actually slowing himself down when the play calls for it.

Not the most skilled guy but an extremely high IQ on a great body and he's gotten the most out of it.

Who ends up scoring more goals as a Ranger, Mika (29) or Kreider (31)?

I’m thinking Mika.

 

[Machinehead]

Who ends up scoring more goals as a Ranger, Mika (29) or Kreider (31)?

I’m thinking Mika.

This is a debate I'm hoping rages on for many years.

 

[Machinehead]

I will say this, Kreider is more of pure goal scorer imo.

I could see Zibanejad adapting more towards distributing as he ages. He's already doing that a bit 5v5.

 

[Kovalev27]

No to trading Lindgren and I don't care what anybody says. He's a warrior, only 25, and Fox plays markedly better when his buddy is in the lineup.

25 going on 35. Guy has taken an absolute beating in just a few years

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He's been averaging 35 goals per 82 games going back to 2017(!!!)

He has to play 82 games, I think that's the valid takeaway, but it's very overstated how much he's been putting up outlier numbers.

He's on pace for 37 this year and his shooting percentage is down 3 points from where it was the two years prior.

A 35-40 goal scorer is what he is.

That and he has to be able to sustain it for the latter years of his career.

I don't think he's going to fall off a cliff in the next year or 2, but I also wouldn't expect him to be this guy for the duration of his contract (which of all the bigger ones handed out, is actually the one that looks like it was probably a bargain.)

 

[PuckLuck3043]

25 going on 35. Guy has taken an absolute beating in just a few years

If he was 30 I could see your point. He still has quite a few good years left in him and Fox's game has slipped without him. He's a very important part of this team. The left side of this defense doesn't give me a lot of confidence either. No to trading him.

 

[McRanger92]

If he was 30 I could see your point. He still has quite a few good years left in him and Fox's game has slipped without him. He's a very important part of this team. The left side of this defense doesn't give me a lot of confidence either. No to trading him.

Don't let his style of play and heart cloud your judgement. We'd be looking to move Lindgren anyway a year or 2 after he signed any extension. He's not a core piece and not irreplaceable.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If he was 30 I could see your point. He still has quite a few good years left in him and Fox's game has slipped without him. He's a very important part of this team. The left side of this defense doesn't give me a lot of confidence either. No to trading him.

Fox's game has slipped because he's making dumb decisions, not because he doesn't have Lindgren next to him.

I like Lindgren. He's a good player and the team is clearly better when he is playing but the only real takeaway that we can make with him being out is that he is better suited for that top LD slot than Mikkola.

Miller-Fox would be a better pair (and has been, when they've played together) than Lindgren-Fox. What they need right now is a 3-6 LD who can move a puck, which they won't commit to unless the guy is 6'2"+. I hate drafting for need but if that guy is available when the Rangers pick this year I hope they take him.