really? torts and av are the only coaches that actually got you out of the first round, what's gallant done that you would rather be knocked out of the first round every year?
Roster Building Thread V (2022-23): Cheese and WINE
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I don't think contenders want Panarin, but a bubble team that really wants to make the playoffs might. He's still talented and could push a team up the standings in the regular season.
Exactly this. This is the very reason I wanted the play the Devils in the first round. If people don't see the glaring issues now I guess they never will.
gravey9
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- Dec 29, 2008
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This makes a lot of sense just based on how this season has gone.
As I've stated before, there is no way that the trade deadline brought in players that fit Gallant's preferred playing style. Getting both Kane and Tarasenko, let alone one, was really poor team building. I said it then, I'll say it now, over-indexing on aging skill is not a way to win in the playoffs. But the trade deadline was so upsetting because it was the team going in the complete opposite direction. After the Tom Wilson incident, the team brought in grit, physicality and sandpaper. We had a team that maybe didn't quite have enough skill to get over the hump, but we had enough other qualities to get to 3rd round. We felt like we were on the right track. Then, this year, to keep Kravy, we slowly depleted the roster of grit. But it seemed okay, because it felt like we were going add back the missing depth and aggression at the deadline. But we didn't do that. Mikkola was strong, Motte was decent, but Tarasenko and Kane made our top 6 benign 5v5. The play style vs the Devils was diametrically opposed to the style we employed last playoff season. Gallant must have been furious BTS.
The deadline was sign that a) Gallant and Drury were at odds. b) Drury was okay with completely reversing the direction of the team post Tom Wilson. And he gave up quite a few assets to do it. Gave up Hunt, Reaves, Kravtsov, Blais. Traded away a 1st, a 2nd, 2x 4ths. And most of those assets were moved to bring in 2 guys who did not fit what the team needed to play Gallant style hockey.
It's insanely poor asset management. And incredibly dysfunctional. Bring in a coach, let him implement his system and then give him the ingredients to successfully implement said system. Don't go lone wolf and bring in players that may look great on paper but actually make it harder for the coach to be successful.
Beyond that, it's deeply hypocritical and schizophrenic. The deadline was not even 2 full seasons removed from the Tom Wilson incident. How quickly did Drury abandon his plan? Why? You got rid of Nils and Kravy in part because they weren't physical enough to play Gallant's style but then you waste those assets on players who don't fit. WHY????
The organization hasn't felt this rudderless in decades.
As for Gallant, people are right to criticize his inability to make tactical adjustments. He sucks at it. The fact that the org did not bring in an asst who could compliment Gallant is again poor management. But, in Gallant's defense, this "stacked roster" had very little flexibility. Watching game 7, by mid-way through I wanted the team to bench Kane, Tarasenko and Panarin. Just roll lines that can go north south and establish a forecheck. Get some momentum. But that's insane, benching 3 star players in a game 7. That's Mike Keenan level stuff. Point is, Gallant was pretty well handcuffed with the personnel given to him. The lineup was not capable of adjusting its style to fit the opponent. If he had stones, he would have scratched Kane and maybe Panarin and brought up Blidh, Cuylle or Brodzinski. We just needed more speed and grit and to play downhill to make headway 5v5. Bad bad lineup that made me feel like I was watching Scott Gomez or Val Kamensky again.
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So, where the heck does that leave the team now? Gallant's going to be sacrificed for sure. But for who? Quenneville? Sutter? There's no perfect fit.
More importantly -- do we trust Drury anymore? Do we? I don't trust that he has a plan. Not after this season. Not after he burned a bunch of assets for nothing this year. It was Glen Sather level GMery. Just really really bad. And do you really think the lack of a plan didn't trickle down to the rest of the team? For a guy who played many years in the NHL, he really doesn't seem to have the temperature of the locker room. This team's issues all year were about effort and sacrificing for the team. And his solution is bringing more of the same. I don't trust his judgment. At best, he was bringing in these players in an attempt to put heat on Gallant and maybe Panarin. But he burned a lot of assets and maybe relationships with other players on the team to do it.
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As for individual player performances. I mean, the truth is, outside of Igor, no one looked better than expectations. Maybe Kreider. Teams need to be better than the sum of their parts. Players need to look better than they would otherwise on a different roster. That's when you know you have built something special. So, I will defer from making individual player analysis. The team makeup was seriously off. Most players looked far worse than they'd be on a more balanced, playoff ready roster. So, I am not interested in rating anyone.
This failure needs to be on management.
You can blame the coach, you can blame the players. And you should. But ultimately the mix was off. The locker room, team comradarie was off all year. And maybe longer. I will save most of my thoughts on that for later, but the fact that the vets never made a single one of the kids look better than they are -- that not one of them lifted a kid to another level is an indictment on the vets. The cliques, the lack of identity, the fact that the vets are never held accountable outside of rare moments is unacceptable. The double standard must end. The culture absolutely must change. How many coaches have to get fired before the players start taking responsibility? And if the players won't change, than it's incumbent on management to figure it out.
The organization hasn't felt this rudderless in decades.
Ah, as a Ranger fan for over six decades, this is far from the truth
Ah, as a Ranger fan for over six decades, this is far from the truth
Captain Monglobster
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Just fyi newish rangers fans THIS is what its like to be a Rangers fan.
gravey9
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The last time it was this bad was Pre-Lundquist. Was it dark during other periods? Yup. I've got 40 years on this bs train too.
did last season not happen?
McRanger92
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Lafreniere Chytil & Kakko need to be getting top 6 and power play time under a new coach next season. If that means demotions for Panarin & Kreider, so be it. This is the price of playoff failure.
I dont really see any rebuilding teams looking to add Panarin but who knows. Maybe he'd like to go play in that college arena 
Carolina needs star power, Pacioretty was supposed to help in that regard buts he's finito. They'll have ~25 million in cap space this summer.
Pittsburgh re-signed Malkin and Letang until they're 40, Crosby still has a couple years left on his deal. They locked up Rust and Rakell long term, they're looking to win another cup with those old heads. They'll have ~20 million in cap space this summer
The Predators will have ~18 million in cap space. They have an old core there. They did sell off spare parts at the deadline but I dont think that they're looking to rebuild.
Seattle also has ~18 million in cap space this summer. They need the high end talent. Dunn will get a raise, but plenty of room there.
That's a few organizations there that are competitive who can afford Panarin without moving any salary at all. Aside from Dunn with Seattle all of the above teams don't have anyone significant to retain money-wise.
The Panthers are interesting. They'll be just short of 10 million in space this summer. Like the above teams they also do not have anyone substantial to re-sign. Little bit of money would have to be moved. Barkov and Tkachuk are off the table. Bennett or Lundell would be awesome targets but I don't think they'd like to move them. Wingers like Verhaeghe or Reinhart are interesting. Verhaeghe is incredibly cheap and phenomenal 5v5. Reinhart is talented and plays on the PK as well. He'd likely be the one available with only a year left on his deal
Winnipeg will have ~13 million this off-season and it sounds like PLD wants to play in Montreal. So he's off the table. Money will have to come back if AP goes there.. though I'd be surprised if he'd waive to go to Winnipeg.
When it comes to the actual feasibility of a Panarin trade, money-wise its plenty realistic. There's plenty of teams there, it obviously comes back to whether he'd actually waive and where that might be if so
Carolina needs star power, Pacioretty was supposed to help in that regard buts he's finito. They'll have ~25 million in cap space this summer.
Pittsburgh re-signed Malkin and Letang until they're 40, Crosby still has a couple years left on his deal. They locked up Rust and Rakell long term, they're looking to win another cup with those old heads. They'll have ~20 million in cap space this summer
The Predators will have ~18 million in cap space. They have an old core there. They did sell off spare parts at the deadline but I dont think that they're looking to rebuild.
Seattle also has ~18 million in cap space this summer. They need the high end talent. Dunn will get a raise, but plenty of room there.
That's a few organizations there that are competitive who can afford Panarin without moving any salary at all. Aside from Dunn with Seattle all of the above teams don't have anyone significant to retain money-wise.
The Panthers are interesting. They'll be just short of 10 million in space this summer. Like the above teams they also do not have anyone substantial to re-sign. Little bit of money would have to be moved. Barkov and Tkachuk are off the table. Bennett or Lundell would be awesome targets but I don't think they'd like to move them. Wingers like Verhaeghe or Reinhart are interesting. Verhaeghe is incredibly cheap and phenomenal 5v5. Reinhart is talented and plays on the PK as well. He'd likely be the one available with only a year left on his deal
Winnipeg will have ~13 million this off-season and it sounds like PLD wants to play in Montreal. So he's off the table. Money will have to come back if AP goes there.. though I'd be surprised if he'd waive to go to Winnipeg.
When it comes to the actual feasibility of a Panarin trade, money-wise its plenty realistic. There's plenty of teams there, it obviously comes back to whether he'd actually waive and where that might be if so
egelband
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I feel like even if it’s just for effect they have to trade one of the ‘core’ vets. Ideally Panarin but even Kreider or Mika. I think the FO love Trouba so it won’t be him. And to be fair, while his contract isn’t great Goodrow is 100% not the problem and it would be obtuse to ‘scapegoat’ him.
- Jan 18, 2012
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Oh please. They have to earn it. The only one of the 3 that shows some balance in Kakko. He is a hard worker. As for Chytil the guy gets away with murder on this Board. So tired of his disappearing and poor on ice positioning. The guy could not even handle a freakin pass this series. You can't win with a guy that disappears consistently like he does. I know he is still young, Yeah after 5 years expect a hell of a lot more. Maybe by the time he is 30 we will see something that warrants a top 6 promotion.
Shesterkybomb
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I agree...you need to get those guys going its the most important job next year. We've put the cart before the horse here, we needed the kids to be ready before adding free agents for big money.
McRanger92
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We tried the “earn it” method and deferred to the vets for years, at the expense of highly drafted prospects. Where’d it get us? I just think I’ve seen enough from all 3 to justify that they are definitely NHL players and they are young and experienced and it’s not too late to salvage them and shakeup the core of the team. Is there a better option?
Shesterkybomb
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A lot of those teams you mentioned imo aren't destinations he would agree to. He picked NY, he took less money to come to this team, i can't see him waivingI dont really see any rebuilding teams looking to add Panarin but who knows. Maybe he'd like to go play in that college arena
Carolina needs star power, Pacioretty was supposed to help in that regard buts he's finito. They'll have ~25 million in cap space this summer.
Pittsburgh re-signed Malkin and Letang until they're 40, Crosby still has a couple years left on his deal. They locked up Rust and Rakell long term, they're looking to win another cup with those old heads. They'll have ~20 million in cap space this summer
The Predators will have ~18 million in cap space. They have an old core there. They did sell off spare parts at the deadline but I dont think that they're looking to rebuild.
Seattle also has ~18 million in cap space this summer. They need the high end talent. Dunn will get a raise, but plenty of room there.
That's a few organizations there that are competitive who can afford Panarin without moving any salary at all. Aside from Dunn with Seattle all of the above teams don't have anyone significant to retain money-wise.
The Panthers are interesting. They'll be just short of 10 million in space this summer. Like the above teams they also do not have anyone substantial to re-sign. Little bit of money would have to be moved. Barkov and Tkachuk are off the table. Bennett or Lundell would be awesome targets but I don't think they'd like to move them. Wingers like Verhaeghe or Reinhart are interesting. Verhaeghe is incredibly cheap and phenomenal 5v5. Reinhart is talented and plays on the PK as well. He'd likely be the one available with only a year left on his deal
Winnipeg will have ~13 million this off-season and it sounds like PLD wants to play in Montreal. So he's off the table. Money will have to come back if AP goes there.. though I'd be surprised if he'd waive to go to Winnipeg.
When it comes to the actual feasibility of a Panarin trade, money-wise its plenty realistic. There's plenty of teams there, it obviously comes back to whether he'd actually waive and where that might be if so
I would trade Mika and Panarin over Goodrow and Kreider, more value especially Mika. Kreider and Goodrow at least willing to bring fight to the battle. Goodrow is expensive but he is not an issue and at least always tries. One of the few that plays tough hockey. Get rid of these soft style of players on this team. Need more battle and compete level. Vets didnt do much. Pathetic effort. Mika is either hurt or thinking of music and not focused on hockey. Effort matters over skill in the playoffs although you need both to survive. Imagine if they put in effort.
Rangerboy030
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- Apr 21, 2012
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If we hire that piece of shit sexual abuse enabler, I'll not be watching a single game in his entire tenure.
NYR Viper
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Nashville is the play for Panarin. I’m telling you. New GM. Duchene fits in NY and has a contract at the same term. It helps Nashville contend for the playoffs while not spending any additional real cash. The Rangers re-allocate the cap space to RW with Duchene and save about $3.5m which could be used elsewhere
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
you are saying they are bad coaches and gallant that cant get this team out of the first round with all that talent, he's the better coach?
egelband
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I wouldn’t go so far as to say any of the guys don’t put in effort. I just think it’s more than effort. They don’t have that desire or that shark-like tenacity.
And I put Kreider in that lot too. He can be an absolute bowling ball but he doesn’t do it. He takes abuse in front of the net on the PP, and I appreciate he’s very responsible defensively. He does good things. But he, like Mika and Panarin don’t tilt the ice. Again, not saying they’re bad players. Just that we need a true boss out there.
I said none of that. I made a joke about not bringing Torts back, which I am serious about. Torts is a bad coach.
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