Speculation: Roster Building Thread: (still) No Quinn In NY Edition

[RangerBoy]

 

[Trxjw]

Whole lot of those "never available to acquire" guys on the market as of late. Funny how that works.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Nils Lindkvist will not be content spending the next couple of seasons in the AHL.

The Rangers can't trade 3 or 4 players from their lineup to pay Tkachuk. Are the Rangers playing with an 18 player roster this season?

Trouba's NMC expires in two seasons. The Rangers better hope the salary cap increases in the summer of 24-25. Moving Trouba's $8M in a flat cap environment will not be easy. His limited no trade clause in 24-25 is a 15 no trade list. It's not a fait accompli the Rangers will be able to move Kreider or Trouba in two seasons. The trade market has been terrible this summer.

we're still talking about Tkachuck?

 

[Bruner4329]

The real problem is Hartford. No offense to anyone who lives there, but it might as well be Siberia to someone from Europe. Other NHL franchises with AHL teams in nicer cities don't tend to have this problem. Move the team somewhere nicer, and closer to the city.

Obviously you haven't been to all the hot spots in the Eastern division such as Wilkes-Barre, Utica, Bridgeport, Hershey, Lehigh Valley and Springfield not to mention balmy Rochester and Syracuse where winter lasts for 5 months. Hartford is a lot better than most of those locations and is basically an hour outside of Boston.

 

[NYR94]

Nazem Kadri: Tell me about it!

 

[I Eat Crow]

Whole lot of those "never available to acquire" guys on the market as of late. Funny how that works.

There are more players now that want to pick their destination and force trades after their RFA deals are up rather than waiting until UFA.

The problem with this is that it is hard for GM's to get fair value when there is a hard, flat, cap, and those teams that have the cap space hold those teams with the malcontent player over a barrel.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Nils Lindkvist will not be content spending the next couple of seasons in the AHL.

The Rangers can't trade 3 or 4 players from their lineup to pay Tkachuk. Are the Rangers playing with an 18 player roster this season?

Trouba's NMC expires in two seasons. The Rangers better hope the salary cap increases in the summer of 24-25. Moving Trouba's $8M in a flat cap environment will not be easy. His limited no trade clause in 24-25 is a 15 no trade list. It's not a fait accompli the Rangers will be able to move Kreider or Trouba in two seasons. The trade market has been terrible this summer.

the problem is he won't get a look unless one our RHD god forbid gets hurt

So are believers of the Rangers - Tkachuck rumors this AM?

The only thing that sticks in my mind is the report Drury was very unhappy with Panarin’s post season.

NHL Rumors: 2 More Teams Linked to a Matthew Tkachuk Trade

The Calgary Flames are going to look vastly different next season as they've lost two of their best players. While Johnny Gaudreau was busy ...

www.nhltraderumors.me

No way in hell. Panarin is going nowhere.

 

[Trxjw]

There are more players now that want to pick their destination and force trades after their RFA deals are up rather than waiting until UFA.

The problem with this is that it is hard for GM's to get fair value when there is a hard, flat, cap, and those teams that have the cap space hold those teams with the malcontent player over a barrel.

I realize that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek assessment of the Rangers never putting themselves in the right position to capitalize. A couple of 24 year old power forwards hit the trade market, both damn near ideal fits for us, and yet our hands are tied because we couldn't resist Panarin when the time came.

The hard balling from RFAs started with Nylander. The Rangers should have seen it coming.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

JOHNNY GAUDREAULW, COLUMBUS BLUE JACKETS

Johnny Gaudreau was close to signing with the New Jersey Devils.​

“I think I was trying to get a deal done with the Devils and then Columbus called, and I was like, ‘I want to go here,’” Gaudreau said on the “Spittin’ Chiclets” podcast. Gaudreau recounted that he hadn't heard from the Blue Jackets until 4pm on the first day of the free agent period. It sounds like had Columbus not acted when they did, Gaudreau would have ended up with the Devils. Obviously that's not what happened though.



Move that franchise to Quebec City

 

[mas0764]

I agree with the direction the team is taking. Sue me.

Agree with whatever you want, I still see a contradiction in your position. If you want to fall back on "Well that's what the team thinks," then fine, but that's not really an independent line of reasoning upon which to have a legitimate discussion, it's merely a deferral, and a deferral to an organization that won't (doesn't have to) explain itself publicly.

I would agree Lafreniere has shown more in goal scoring ability than Kakko, but not by leaps and bounds. Kakko played essentially half a season this year due to injury and scored 7 goals. If he had played a full season, 14 is probably an accurate projection. Compared to Lafreniere's 19 goals and it's not that far off pace.

I also think Kakko has shown other things better than Lafreniere has.

I guess the point is, other than saying "Well I can tell the team feels this way and I'm with them," there isn't really a rational reason to expect Lafreniere to become Matthew Tkachuk but Kakko to be someone we should trade before he loses all value. If your position is that we simply can't afford or fit into the lineup a guy like Kakko, that's also a different argument, but if you feel like you can project Lafreniere to become a 90 point player then there really is no reason not to expect Kakko to become a 70 point player with excellent defense as well, and trading that for a rental or a less-than-elite young term talent is foolishness.

 

[JimmyG89]

If Nils Lundkvist can't be in the AHL as a player that will have just turned 22, there are bigger issues. I understand players wanting to get into the NHL, and I'm sure he'll be coming into camp motivated to win that 3rd RD spot, but this team was just in the ECF, and the entire right side of their defense is coming back.

He didn't light up the AHL either when he was down there. He was okay. If he was killing that league and was sent back, I could understand.

At this point, he is their #1 trade chip for the deadline. If this team needs something to get over the hump, he's the asset to move.

 

[mas0764]

Unless you're trading Fox, you need to hope a player waives his NMC for salary purposes.

Zibanejad: NMC until 2029
Panarin: NMC until 2026

I doubt they waive. They have all the leverage. No expiration that limits their leverage any time soon.

Then there's Kreider who just became the 4th in franchise history to score 50 goals in a season with a NMC expiring in 2024 but would they really trade him now? They should, but they won't.

That leaves Trouba who also has a NMC that expires in 2024, but they already need that cap to re-sign Laf, Miller and Chytil long-term so I expect him to waive for cap relief, not to fit Tkachuk under the cap.

I'm with you. They SHOULD explore what Kreider would bring back, cause it could be a haul. If it's still of the "Jason Robertson and a first" level I would do it. If it's not enough, then keep him. But they won't.

Given defensive depth, Trouba is almost certainly gone sooner rather than later for the money to re-sign Laf, Miller, Kakko, Chytil, and maybe Kravtsov.

I think they give it one more run and then move Trouba in the next offseason, honestly. His playoff performance did nothing to indicate he's irreplaceable and his metrics are only that of a second pair defender.

You can't keep everyone and we aren't losing K'Andre Miller and Lafreniere for him. Where are we getting the money to give these raises? You will have to hope they each take 2.5m-$3m bridge deals but if they excel, you are going to want to lock them up long term, which you can't do. If either one of them explodes this year, let alone both, you are sunk.

Someone will have to move. And of the logical candidates my money is on Trouba.

 

[RangerBoy]

Tkachuk was moved from left wing to right wing last season. He had the best season of his career playing with Gaudreau and Lindholm. The Rangers will probably move Lafreniere to the right side. The players in Calgary set up Tkachuk. The Rangers players will set up Lafreniere. The Rangers don't need Kane or some other big name.

The Rangers need an experienced D.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I realize that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek assessment of the Rangers never putting themselves in the right position to capitalize. A couple of 24 year old power forwards hit the trade market, both damn near ideal fits for us, and yet our hands are tied because we couldn't resist Panarin when the time came.

The hard balling from RFAs started with Nylander. The Rangers should have seen it coming.

A good buddy of mine in the business said something a while back to me that resonates with this. He said that one would be shocked to hear about how little into the future GM's consider cap flexibility down the road. Said most don't even consider beyond the following year from the present time. There are just too many variables and wrenches thrown in when it comes to roster building.

A lot can happen in two years. Who thought this team would be ready to contend this year? This core is a year or two ahead of schedule from when many thought they would be ready to contend.

Panarin has been a Ranger for three years. Jeff Gorton wasn't considering the possibility of Matthew Tkachuk potentially being available three years from then. A GM's job, unless given the go ahead from team ownership, is to improve the team for that year and the next with little consideration for beyond just because of what can change.

We as fans are eyeing Matthews for two years from now when he's a UFA with the cap projected to go up. I would wager this isn't even on Drury's radar.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

The real problem is Hartford. No offense to anyone who lives there, but it might as well be Siberia to someone from Europe. Other NHL franchises with AHL teams in nicer cities don't tend to have this problem. Move the team somewhere nicer, and closer to the city.

Hartford is an absolute shithole. I imagine most players live in West Hartford which is really nice and like, 10-15 min from XL Arena.

 

[mas0764]

Why? Honestly, I’ve been on the “trade Nils for a young C” bandwagon, but with the addition of Trocheck and Chytil still here, I think Nils is going to be important to have around when we inevitably have to move Trouba, probably next off-season.

If we trade Nils now, we’ll be handing that job to a prospect like skinner or emberson, or paying another older veteran. Nils-Schneider with Jones jumping in here and there, is fine.

Why does everyone hate Nils? I thought he did a fine job while up here, first taste of NA hockey.

I've long been on the "trade one of the young defenders for a young center," bandwagon and still would support that, but I can definitely see it playing out this way now that we have Trochek for 7 goddamn years.

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Schneider
Robertson/Jones/Nils

Eh, we still have one to trade. Of course it's also possible Lindgren isn't re-signed either and then you have

Miller - Fox
Jones - Schneider
Robertson - Nils

You are also correct that Nils wasn't bad, in fact he was basically just about the same as Schneider. The team just preferred Schneider's size.

To Anaheim: Artemi Panarin, Kappo Kakko, 2024 1st round pick
To Calgary: Mason McTavish, Nils Lundkvist, Brett Berard, Olen Zellweger, NYR 2023 1st round pick, ANA 2024 2nd round pick
To NYR: Matthew Tkachuk, Troy Terry, Kevin Rooney(just to really f*** with us)

Artemi waives his NTC to go play with his boyfriend and we finally get the player that we so desparately need for next season - oh and we also get Matt Tkachuk and Troy Terry

Terrible.

 

[bhamill]

The real problem is Hartford. No offense to anyone who lives there, but it might as well be Siberia to someone from Europe. Other NHL franchises with AHL teams in nicer cities don't tend to have this problem. Move the team somewhere nicer, and closer to the city.

Really couldn't hurt. Might get more people out to the games too.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

JOHNNY GAUDREAULW, COLUMBUS BLUE JACKETS

Johnny Gaudreau was close to signing with the New Jersey Devils.​

“I think I was trying to get a deal done with the Devils and then Columbus called, and I was like, ‘I want to go here,’” Gaudreau said on the “Spittin’ Chiclets” podcast. Gaudreau recounted that he hadn't heard from the Blue Jackets until 4pm on the first day of the free agent period. It sounds like had Columbus not acted when they did, Gaudreau would have ended up with the Devils. Obviously that's not what happened though.



Move that franchise to Quebec City

Dont blame him. Columbus is like Miami beach compared to Newark. That was such a horrible decision to build an arena in that city. NJ is a beautiful state in a lot of areas and they literally picked the worst spot. Johnny would know.

 

[mas0764]

I realize that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek assessment of the Rangers never putting themselves in the right position to capitalize. A couple of 24 year old power forwards hit the trade market, both damn near ideal fits for us, and yet our hands are tied because we couldn't resist Panarin when the time came.

The hard balling from RFAs started with Nylander. The Rangers should have seen it coming.

I mean, you can blame the Panarin contract, but the dude is an elite player.

The way bigger problem is that we were offered Jason Robertson and a first for Kreider, who we even could have re-signed in the offseason, and we turned that down.

That and the Trouba deals are the hamstringing contracts for us right this minute.

 

[rangers1314]

Niederreiter to Nashville. 2/4AAV.

Nice get for Nashville.

 

[mas0764]

I realize that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek assessment of the Rangers never putting themselves in the right position to capitalize. A couple of 24 year old power forwards hit the trade market, both damn near ideal fits for us, and yet our hands are tied because we couldn't resist Panarin when the time came.

The hard balling from RFAs started with Nylander. The Rangers should have seen it coming.

I mean, you can blame the Panarin contract, but the dude is an elite player.

The way bigger problem is that we were offered Jason Robertson and a first for Kreider, who we even could have re-signed in the offseason, and we turned that down.

That and the Trouba deals are the hamstringing contracts for us right this minute.

Tkachuk was moved from left wing to right wing last season. He had the best season of his career playing with Gaudreau and Lindholm. The Rangers will probably move Lafreniere to the right side. The players in Calgary set up Tkachuk. The Rangers players will set up Lafreniere. The Rangers don't need Kane or some other big name.

The Rangers need an experienced D.

No rentals.

Just roll with what we have. This team is good enough to come out of the East now that Tampa should be taking a step back. It's them, Carolina, Florida or Toronto, and Toronto can't win a playoff series.

 

[will1066]

I realize that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek assessment of the Rangers never putting themselves in the right position to capitalize. A couple of 24 year old power forwards hit the trade market, both damn near ideal fits for us, and yet our hands are tied because we couldn't resist Panarin when the time came.

The hard balling from RFAs started with Nylander. The Rangers should have seen it coming.

I think if Drury was in the chair and not Gorton at the time, Panarin now is wearing a different uniform. I bet there is a bunch of players on the team that do not fit Drury's player ideals, and he would love to jettison them if he had ways.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Niederreiter to Nashville. 2/4AAV.

Nice get for Nashville.

Wow thats a great deal for them.

 

[duhmetreE]

I realize that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek assessment of the Rangers never putting themselves in the right position to capitalize. A couple of 24 year old power forwards hit the trade market, both damn near ideal fits for us, and yet our hands are tied because we couldn't resist Panarin when the time came.

The hard balling from RFAs started with Nylander. The Rangers should have seen it coming.

the irony is that he needs a Panarin to produce at last seasons level.

 

[Trxjw]

A good buddy of mine in the business said something a while back to me that resonates with this. He said that one would be shocked to hear about how little into the future GM's consider cap flexibility down the road. Said most don't even consider beyond the following year from the present time. There are just too many variables and wrenches thrown in when it comes to roster building.

A lot can happen in two years. Who thought this team would be ready to contend this year? This core is a year or two ahead of schedule from when many thought they would be ready to contend.

Panarin has been a Ranger for three years. Jeff Gorton wasn't considering the possibility of Matthew Tkachuk potentially being available three years from then. A GM's job, unless given the go ahead from team ownership, is to improve the team for that year and the next with little consideration for beyond just because of what can change.

We as fans are eyeing Matthews for two years from now when he's a UFA with the cap projected to go up. I would wager this isn't even on Drury's radar.

You're right about GM's not obsessing over the cap. At least not to the extent that fans do. My point is more to the fact that the team was in the middle of a total tear down and saw fit to give the 2nd highest contract in the league by AAV to a guy who would be in his early 30's once things turned around. I was very vocal about it being a bad idea at the time. Not because Panarin isn't an elite player, but because you don't know what the team will look like coming out of the rebuild. So you're likely better served saving your ammunition for the finishing touches.

Nobody can predict the future, but I think it was a bit of a misstep on the Rangers' part. I'd also argue that given the nature of the letter and the state of the rebuild at the time, Gorton was under no mandate to immediately improve the team. He had time on his side.

Now, on the flip side, Gorton laid the groundwork for Boston in a similar manner and actually allocated more of the cap to Chara than he did to Panarin. So it obviously has merit and has shown it can work. I just happen to think we'd be in a better position with more cap flexibility as these RFAs start to force their way to new markets. Which had become apparent in the year or so leading up to our Panarin signing.