Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII
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BBKers
Registered User
Stupid comes naturally for some of the little urban achievers on these boards. Amen
It's not the kids that need vet supervision, it's the vets. The kids are fine. Gallant needs a brain, that's the main issue.
this team isnt far at all but some big decisions to be made this summer. my approach would be
resign motte - his speed in the bottom 6 was a huge add, can be done maybe 3 or 4 yr 2mm or less
resign copp - id put limits on cap hit and term here though, hed prob have to leave money on the table tho. much more value than strome, cqn slot in at 2c but can be effective anywhere in the lineup which is huge.
let strome walk no matter what
frank i think we wont be able to keep. someone will be willing to pay significantly more than id hope wed consider and he should take it. would love to keep him though if it can be done short on term and cap hit
kick the tires with malkin and bergeron, malkin would be more likely - could see a short term deal to finish his career on broadway being appealing along w playing w panarin and that leading to a huge bounce back season. brings winning pedigree.
if not, 2 c is gonna be interesting. obviously if copp is here he can handle it. i just cant see any way we dont do more than bring back copp at a minimum there and have the only other option be chytil taking it. he had a great playoffs but hes had streaks of good play before, would think hes more likely to be packaged for an upgrade than be the only other potential 2c with copp.
i wonder if kakko isnt moved and i hate it, but wing spots are way overcrowded, esp for offensive roles. who knows w/ kravtsov sounds like being back as is as likely asbeing part of a deal. but kakko is obviously far more valuable and interesting. even if the scratch was as simple as given the way gallant wanted the roster to look he was just the odd man out, its pretty clear where he falls in the kids pecking order. i really hope hes back because i can see him putting up 35/35 for someone next year but i think theres a decent chance hes gone. even outside a trade i wonder if this makes an offer sheet any more likely. wouldnt take much to put us in an awkward spot cap wise so wouldnt cost a team much in draft capital and he might be eager to receive one. not sure of the details on those but would assume our best deterrent is no one wanting to part with a 2023 first.
chytil is another interesting one. had another meh season with little progress and then a huge playoffs. personally i dont put enough in that to assume going forward he can produce and play at that level consistently. theres a chance he does, it didnt look flukey, but at the same time almost all of his damage was done in like a 5 game stretch. just not sold he has the competitiveness off the puck/defensively nor the iq to be a top 6 c. but his values never been higher so id definitely be floating his name. wouldnt necessarily be trying to move him, but think there might be options you have to take. especially if you can bring in a malkin and possibly return a high end prospect that projects a year or so out.
other than that its formalities or indifference on whos back / not for me. ideally would like to bring in another cheap speedy veteran like a cogliano for the bottom 6 but for the most part its all about decisions with copp/motte/vatrano as well as what the plan is for kakko/chytil/kravtsov...whats the best value of them taking into account where we see them on the roster here/as capital to bring in other pieces for it. our assets for the spots we have make dealing some of our young players inevitable...and if we werent the rangers id be excited about what that could mean. but we are and that means im terrified were gonna botch the who is moved and the who theyre moved for terribly..
resign motte - his speed in the bottom 6 was a huge add, can be done maybe 3 or 4 yr 2mm or less
resign copp - id put limits on cap hit and term here though, hed prob have to leave money on the table tho. much more value than strome, cqn slot in at 2c but can be effective anywhere in the lineup which is huge.
let strome walk no matter what
frank i think we wont be able to keep. someone will be willing to pay significantly more than id hope wed consider and he should take it. would love to keep him though if it can be done short on term and cap hit
kick the tires with malkin and bergeron, malkin would be more likely - could see a short term deal to finish his career on broadway being appealing along w playing w panarin and that leading to a huge bounce back season. brings winning pedigree.
if not, 2 c is gonna be interesting. obviously if copp is here he can handle it. i just cant see any way we dont do more than bring back copp at a minimum there and have the only other option be chytil taking it. he had a great playoffs but hes had streaks of good play before, would think hes more likely to be packaged for an upgrade than be the only other potential 2c with copp.
i wonder if kakko isnt moved and i hate it, but wing spots are way overcrowded, esp for offensive roles. who knows w/ kravtsov sounds like being back as is as likely asbeing part of a deal. but kakko is obviously far more valuable and interesting. even if the scratch was as simple as given the way gallant wanted the roster to look he was just the odd man out, its pretty clear where he falls in the kids pecking order. i really hope hes back because i can see him putting up 35/35 for someone next year but i think theres a decent chance hes gone. even outside a trade i wonder if this makes an offer sheet any more likely. wouldnt take much to put us in an awkward spot cap wise so wouldnt cost a team much in draft capital and he might be eager to receive one. not sure of the details on those but would assume our best deterrent is no one wanting to part with a 2023 first.
chytil is another interesting one. had another meh season with little progress and then a huge playoffs. personally i dont put enough in that to assume going forward he can produce and play at that level consistently. theres a chance he does, it didnt look flukey, but at the same time almost all of his damage was done in like a 5 game stretch. just not sold he has the competitiveness off the puck/defensively nor the iq to be a top 6 c. but his values never been higher so id definitely be floating his name. wouldnt necessarily be trying to move him, but think there might be options you have to take. especially if you can bring in a malkin and possibly return a high end prospect that projects a year or so out.
other than that its formalities or indifference on whos back / not for me. ideally would like to bring in another cheap speedy veteran like a cogliano for the bottom 6 but for the most part its all about decisions with copp/motte/vatrano as well as what the plan is for kakko/chytil/kravtsov...whats the best value of them taking into account where we see them on the roster here/as capital to bring in other pieces for it. our assets for the spots we have make dealing some of our young players inevitable...and if we werent the rangers id be excited about what that could mean. but we are and that means im terrified were gonna botch the who is moved and the who theyre moved for terribly..
Circus86
Registered User
- Sep 12, 2020
- 2,692
- 5,418
We should trade Panarin. Not sure he would waive though. We could get a great replacement for him and sign Miller, Laf long term. I don't think it's ever going to happen but it would be the right move imo.
There’s just no chance any of the NMCs waive after this run. 2024-2025 is the first season we have a chance to get Panarin, Trouba, or Kreider off the books. It’s not good.
They were like 2 goals from going to the finals in a year they weren’t supposed too ….what’s wrong with some of you lol
Oh, I’m plenty happy with our playoff run.
It’s just this team would be better off getting out from one of these contracts sooner.
Some of you? I don’t know of anybody else on these boards who disagrees with me.
Doesn’t matter much but I’d assume asset management says yes cause hed be cheap
May get waived or traded after though
Before the series, this is a bonus, I am just going to enjoy it, after it fire the coach and trade all players. 
Panarin specifically wanted to go to Rangers, so don't expect him to waive his clause. And I'll be honest, I'm sure a lot of Columbus Blue Jackets fans are popping open the champagne that he decided to leave. Because of this (and trading Jones with Dubois) we have Sillinger, Johnson, Laine who wants to stay in Columbus (and it's a completely different Laine, he was a true leader, and the talk about his bad character and dependence on teammates has been proven to be silly).
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,857
- 13,012
I said two firsts and a top 6 C prospect. Nothing unreasonable about that for a 100 point player with term.
JaeTM
Registered User
Has a line of Laf-Zib-Kakko ever been tried through out the season? I can't recall. I would really like to see this for a good chunk of games next year.
I'm 99% sure Kreider will open the season on the top line with Zib. Unless he was really injured he was so bad 5v5 these playoffs I would flip him and Laf permanently. Chytil is a good playmaker for Kreider imo. Kreider can continue getting his mins on PP1.
I'm 99% sure Kreider will open the season on the top line with Zib. Unless he was really injured he was so bad 5v5 these playoffs I would flip him and Laf permanently. Chytil is a good playmaker for Kreider imo. Kreider can continue getting his mins on PP1.
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,857
- 13,012
I wouldn’t deliberately undertalent a third line…. But I would just give him more kids.
You have one veteran line, Kreider Zib Panarin.
After that my roster is Kakko Chytil Lafreniere Kravtsov Othmann and two kid centers I trade for or draft. Where you gonna turn buddy!?? Develop the kids, that’s your job.
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,857
- 13,012
No money to resign those guys. Maybe 1 of them. Even letting go of Strome.
The cap isn’t tied to inflation, it’s due to league revenue, and after Covid hurt revenue they already have an increase schedule and we know what the cap will be this year.
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,857
- 13,012
Kakko is getting way more than $1.5m.
And now you are seeing our problem. No money.
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,857
- 13,012
I don’t think there is “no chance.” It’s just not a great chance. I would absolutely make the calls. If you aren’t exploring these options you aren’t trying.
My thoughts after season end, doubt anyone will like them but they are what they are.
1. Honestly, I am not sure what the drama about everything is about. I think that it’s quite obvious that we over-achieved to get to the stage we got to. At that stage, we just couldn’t cover for our flaws, mostly due to fatigue and players obviously being more or less injured.
2. No matter how badly we all want a winner — we are not winning a Cup next season.
Seriously, put a ton of real experts and professional gamblers — with a real stake in the game — in a room to evaluate the contenders next season. The cap is flat. We have three monster contracts kicking in, and nothing coming of the book. We must be careful because we have huge signings to make next, and again — nothing — coming of the books. Objectively, the guys in the mentioned room would scratch our name of the list early and sleep well.
3. With the above in mind, Drury owes it to the fans of this team to not make long term commitments this summer that isn’t aimed to make us better 2-5 years down the road.
4. We talk about how the cap will go up after 2 more years and if we bridge all kids — we will survive 3 years down the road.
But if there is anything we have learned with this league in a cap environment, it’s that things don’t go as planned. Teams have cycles, should we aim to merely survive? Being better than average but never great?
5. We talked ad nausea about acquiring big name vets up until this point, but also about getting guys that ‘can put the puck in the net.
That is not what we need.
If there is one lesson to learn from this POs, it’s to look at just how badly Carolina and Tampa could stifle us despite the fact that we have one of the best PPs and many guys who are tremendous at opening things up.
Which type of players make out those teams? It’s players that are really hard to play against because they cover a ton of ice and they work hard.
6. Tampa can be as consistent as they have been, because they have a super clear plan on how to build their team. Big Ds, small centers that can carry the puck and cover a ton of ice, a well balanced mix on the wings. Detroit Red Wings rebuilt a dynasty to more or less another on the fly — for the exact same reason. You remove so much friction along the way, one player comes out, a carbon copy of the same player comes in 12 years younger.
With Detroit, everyone said, you can’t copy them. It’s the same with Tampa, you can’t copy them. It’s easy to be great if you pick great players with late round picks regularly. And of course that is true.
But with that said — it is also about being true to your ideas. Basically all moves — all trades, draft picks, UFA signings — Tampa make fits their identity.
We have been super horny on drafting forwards with size. It’s law of physics, size comes at the expense of speed.
Was Strome a great trade? I don’t know, should you trade for players that just don’t fit the bill for what works in this league? I am not saying it’s black and white, but if you make the wrong move your will never make the right move in that area, even if there were a boat load of worse moves that could have been made. Which excuses are valid for a GM?
What I am getting at is just that (a) we have issues on the roster, mainly lack of speed at center ice and (b) we wont fix them unless we try. Trying to build a team the right way requires sacrifices. Sometimes that entails that you pass on an opportunity, sometimes that means that you take a step back to take two forwards.
7. We haven’t had much success developing prospects in NY, at least not have forward. Our forwards that haven’t taken huge steps have all been rushed to the NHL at 18 and not had a good role waiting for them.
No need to get into this whole discussion in length. But this issue is perhaps relevant with Kravtsov.
Should you — ever — bring a young forward onto the roster if you don’t have a spot open that is suitable for that kid? Honest question. If you don’t think statements like ‘oh won’t be able to fail in that role’ fits the bill?
Honestly, this may sound like an exaggeration — but I don’t think that it is. I think it’s the opposite. If we are at like a ‘let’s get this kid into camp and see what happens’ because we can’t trade him now because his value is so low — I think that you always without exception should think again and pull the trigger. History is so clear in this regard.
Wishful thinking don’t cut it.
1. Honestly, I am not sure what the drama about everything is about. I think that it’s quite obvious that we over-achieved to get to the stage we got to. At that stage, we just couldn’t cover for our flaws, mostly due to fatigue and players obviously being more or less injured.
2. No matter how badly we all want a winner — we are not winning a Cup next season.
Seriously, put a ton of real experts and professional gamblers — with a real stake in the game — in a room to evaluate the contenders next season. The cap is flat. We have three monster contracts kicking in, and nothing coming of the book. We must be careful because we have huge signings to make next, and again — nothing — coming of the books. Objectively, the guys in the mentioned room would scratch our name of the list early and sleep well.
3. With the above in mind, Drury owes it to the fans of this team to not make long term commitments this summer that isn’t aimed to make us better 2-5 years down the road.
4. We talk about how the cap will go up after 2 more years and if we bridge all kids — we will survive 3 years down the road.
But if there is anything we have learned with this league in a cap environment, it’s that things don’t go as planned. Teams have cycles, should we aim to merely survive? Being better than average but never great?
5. We talked ad nausea about acquiring big name vets up until this point, but also about getting guys that ‘can put the puck in the net.
That is not what we need.
If there is one lesson to learn from this POs, it’s to look at just how badly Carolina and Tampa could stifle us despite the fact that we have one of the best PPs and many guys who are tremendous at opening things up.
Which type of players make out those teams? It’s players that are really hard to play against because they cover a ton of ice and they work hard.
6. Tampa can be as consistent as they have been, because they have a super clear plan on how to build their team. Big Ds, small centers that can carry the puck and cover a ton of ice, a well balanced mix on the wings. Detroit Red Wings rebuilt a dynasty to more or less another on the fly — for the exact same reason. You remove so much friction along the way, one player comes out, a carbon copy of the same player comes in 12 years younger.
With Detroit, everyone said, you can’t copy them. It’s the same with Tampa, you can’t copy them. It’s easy to be great if you pick great players with late round picks regularly. And of course that is true.
But with that said — it is also about being true to your ideas. Basically all moves — all trades, draft picks, UFA signings — Tampa make fits their identity.
We have been super horny on drafting forwards with size. It’s law of physics, size comes at the expense of speed.
Was Strome a great trade? I don’t know, should you trade for players that just don’t fit the bill for what works in this league? I am not saying it’s black and white, but if you make the wrong move your will never make the right move in that area, even if there were a boat load of worse moves that could have been made. Which excuses are valid for a GM?
What I am getting at is just that (a) we have issues on the roster, mainly lack of speed at center ice and (b) we wont fix them unless we try. Trying to build a team the right way requires sacrifices. Sometimes that entails that you pass on an opportunity, sometimes that means that you take a step back to take two forwards.
7. We haven’t had much success developing prospects in NY, at least not have forward. Our forwards that haven’t taken huge steps have all been rushed to the NHL at 18 and not had a good role waiting for them.
No need to get into this whole discussion in length. But this issue is perhaps relevant with Kravtsov.
Should you — ever — bring a young forward onto the roster if you don’t have a spot open that is suitable for that kid? Honest question. If you don’t think statements like ‘oh won’t be able to fail in that role’ fits the bill?
Honestly, this may sound like an exaggeration — but I don’t think that it is. I think it’s the opposite. If we are at like a ‘let’s get this kid into camp and see what happens’ because we can’t trade him now because his value is so low — I think that you always without exception should think again and pull the trigger. History is so clear in this regard.
Wishful thinking don’t cut it.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,657
- 19,363
Honestly what needs to happen is for us to find a decent 2c, and for everyone else to grow a year, Kakko and Panarin go to skating school as neither has the speed to go past anyone and Kravtsov and Jones join the roster. The kids take another step. Sign Motte, see what Copp wants and thats the offseason. It sucks we dont have a first this year.
PalmCoastRanger
Registered User
- Jun 21, 2019
- 839
- 1,221
Not only that, but Miller and now Schneider, were allowed to grow into the position. They were allowed to make mistakes, Miller and Fox clearly benefitted from this amount of trust. Amazingly enough the young forwards are not being afforded the same allowances. Sure, the kids have been moved up from time to time, but it was made plenty clear to them that mistakes will have immediate consequences.
Really baffling if you consider the fact defense is arguably harder to learn.
This reeks of requiring ten year experience and a degree for entry level jobs. This approach is laughable in the corporate world and should not be applied in the sporting realm.
HANK30
Tom Brady 4-3 in SBs without Patriot cheating
Either we need more speed (particularly in our transition game) or the boys were tired vs TB. They looked like they were skating in mud this series.
Another defense defenseman as well as a center who can win faceoffs would help a lot.
Wouldn't mind trading Panarin for the right price...
All in all a great season. Looking forward to the next.
Another defense defenseman as well as a center who can win faceoffs would help a lot.
Wouldn't mind trading Panarin for the right price...
All in all a great season. Looking forward to the next.
Predictions for next year:
Copp signs with Seattle ($6.5m x 7 years)
Strome signs with Ottawa ($5.8m x 6 years)
Kakko signs with TPS and requests a trade which doesn’t happen during offseason.
Lafreniere and Miller sign extensions with Rangers on matching contracts at $4.7m x 6 years
Kravtsov signs for $1m x 1 year
Vatrano signs for $2.5m x 1 year
Motte signs with the Rangers at $2.3m x 4 years
Blais signs at 1.5m x 1 year
Koskinen signs with Rangers at $1.2m x 1 year
Nemeth is shipped out to Arizona by giving up a 3rd
Kreider - Zib - Laf
Panarin - Chytil - Kravtsov
Blais - Goodrow - Vatrano
Motte - Brodzinski - Hunt
Reaves
Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Jones - Schnedier
Lundkvist
Shesterkin
Koskinen
Rangers are a wild card team and lose in the first round next season.
Copp signs with Seattle ($6.5m x 7 years)
Strome signs with Ottawa ($5.8m x 6 years)
Kakko signs with TPS and requests a trade which doesn’t happen during offseason.
Lafreniere and Miller sign extensions with Rangers on matching contracts at $4.7m x 6 years
Kravtsov signs for $1m x 1 year
Vatrano signs for $2.5m x 1 year
Motte signs with the Rangers at $2.3m x 4 years
Blais signs at 1.5m x 1 year
Koskinen signs with Rangers at $1.2m x 1 year
Nemeth is shipped out to Arizona by giving up a 3rd
Kreider - Zib - Laf
Panarin - Chytil - Kravtsov
Blais - Goodrow - Vatrano
Motte - Brodzinski - Hunt
Reaves
Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Jones - Schnedier
Lundkvist
Shesterkin
Koskinen
Rangers are a wild card team and lose in the first round next season.
