Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII

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Why does Montreal need cap space and why would we want Drouin as our 2C, even for 1 year?

Montreal is entering a rebuild. They aren't going to trade a 1st to dump 1 year of Drouin.

Kent Hughes believes whoever they take with the first pick will be expected to be in the line-up at the start of the season.
 
Just spit-balling here. Montreal Canadians trade LW/C Jonathan Drouin along with 26OA pick in the 2022 draft to the NY Rangers for future consideration or if Kent Hughes wants he can have either
Julien Gauthier or Libor Hajek instead of FC.
Drouin has a M-NTC and a year left at 5.5 million.
Montreal needs the cap space and we can play Jonathan at Center.
Feedback?

He's not good, he's not a center, and Montreal would never do this.
 
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You’re not wrong at all, but this repetition about Trouba’s wife is one of the more bizarre anchors I’ve ever heard. The world does not revolve around his wife.
If I remember correctly, the main issue was that she was in Med School on Florida. It's an enormous undertaking to get from Winnipeg to Florida and vice versa. If Trouba had stayed up there, they would have gone extended stretched apart. Being in NY, it was far more convenient for them to see one another. Furthermore, there are more opportunities for young doctors, (internships, residencies, etc) here in the tri state area. Trouba stated that he would not feel right asking her to make sacrifices for her career, (such as living in Winnipeg), on his behalf. They wanted something that would work for both of them.

The big issue was Winnepeg's location.

The world may not revolve around Trouba's wife, but their relationship seems to revolve equally around both of them.
 
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The issue is that thinking like that leads to bleeding picks at the deadline.

And I don't think we are going to see much "Just play kids" attitude after a ECF appearance. Spots will have to be earned.

Add an old time coach to the mix. With that I mean Gallant is not exactly a modernizer who is looking to use the substantial base of young talent at his disposal to create anything new or innovative. The "development" idea will take a back seat for "win now". That's why I expect kids + picks to be moved out for pieces that fit the current and immediate picture. A lot of posters here are fine with this idea, others not so much.

Drury arrived to a set table when the got the GM/President job. Everyone knew the basic approach he had to take. 1. Find a new coach. 2. Beef up the lineup. 3. Make the playoffs. And, he had ready ammo to make those moves. This would have been the same mission had Gorton+JD remained. Basically, Drury's real job starts this off season. From now on the decisions will be entirely his own.
 
If I remember correctly, the main issue was that she was in Med School on Florida. It's an enormous undertaking to get from Winnipeg to Florida and vice versa. If Trouba had stayed up there, they would have gone extended stretched apart. Being in NY, it was far more convenient for them to see one another. Furthermore, there are more opportunities for young doctors, (internships, residencies, etc) here in the tri state area. Trouba stated that he would not feel right asking her to make sacrifices for her career, (such as living in Winnipeg), on his behalf. They wanted something that would work for both of them.

The big issue was Winnepeg's location.

The world may not revolve around Trouba's wife, but their relationship seems to revolve equally around both of them.
Isn’t it also that his father can’t cross the border?
 

Kent Hughes believes whoever they take with the first pick will be expected to be in the line-up at the start of the season.

And that all means what?

Whoever they take with the 1st overall pick will have a cap hit of 950k. That's the maximum allowable ELC salary for a player drafted in 2022 as defined in the MOU. He'll get max bonuses of 2.85 mil, but teams are allowed to exceed the cap via performance bonuses by 7.5%. 7.5% of 82.5 mil is 6.1875 mil.

3 other players on Montreal have performance bonuses in 2022-23:

Caufield: 850k
Jordan Harris: $507,500
Justin Barron: $212,500

Added to the 2.85 mil for their 1st overall, that's a total of 4.42 mil. That's well below the bonus cushion, so they won't have to account for any of it under the 82.5 mil cap. None of their other prospects have significant performance bonuses, so even if other prospects make the team, it won't be enough to go over the bonus cushion.

So they can fit Wright, or whoever, very easily under the cap.

Montreal is going to be actively trying to move other players, players who actually have value. They aren't going to give up a 1st round pick to get rid of Drouin. If Drouin actually had the value to be our 2C this year, Montreal wouldn't need to give up a 1st round pick to move him, so your entire premise is flawed.
 
It depends on who and what position.
The team doesn't have a ton of flexibility considering the amount of kids who need new contracts the next 2 years.
Giving term to a guy like nemeth is what made everyone upset. His cap hit last year was fine, but the 3 years and the nmc kept the hit down.

Giving term to a kid is absolutely fine.
Giving term to a guy like motte, might force us to lose a kid.

Giving copp an 8 year deal would be terrible.

I agree it’s dependent on the player and role but what I mean is a guy like Larsson or Motte. Say they want 3 years at $2.5m per season. Offer 5 years at $2m. By the time years 4 and 5 come around the cap will be much higher and those contracts will be tradeable or they can be buried for a small penalty that wont be much. That’s worst case scenario.

Looking at the teams depth, I don’t see many lower line forwards developing right now and rise further is generally take 3-5 years to develop. Maybe Edstrom but that’s pretty much it.
 
I agree it’s dependent on the player and role but what I mean is a guy like Larsson or Motte. Say they want 3 years at $2.5m per season. Offer 5 years at $2m. By the time years 4 and 5 come around the cap will be much higher and those contracts will be tradeable or they can be buried for a small penalty that wont be much. That’s worst case scenario.

Looking at the teams depth, I don’t see many lower line forwards developing right now and rise further is generally take 3-5 years to develop. Maybe Edstrom but that’s pretty much it.

Cuylle and Berard?
 
I agree it’s dependent on the player and role but what I mean is a guy like Larsson or Motte. Say they want 3 years at $2.5m per season. Offer 5 years at $2m. By the time years 4 and 5 come around the cap will be much higher and those contracts will be tradeable or they can be buried for a small penalty that wont be much. That’s worst case scenario.

Looking at the teams depth, I don’t see many lower line forwards developing right now and rise further is generally take 3-5 years to develop. Maybe Edstrom but that’s pretty much it.
I mean if Cuylle turns into a Deslauriers and Berard becomes a Motte, that’s a win for the Rangers.
 
I think the distinct hope for both is higher than a 4th liner
Sure but this is a deep team and they need to start somewhere. Would have no problem with them “replacing” the minutes of some of the rentals. Would much rather play them then give dumb contracts out to Motte and Vatrano. Wouldn’t be re-signing Copp or Strome either. The Rangers openings this off-season are going to be in the bottom six. Both Cuylle and Berard are left wings. They are going to have Panarin, Kreider, Lafreniere and probably Othmann in front of them for top six too.
 
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I think the distinct hope for both is higher than a 4th liner

Sure, and it was for Dominic Moore too but that didn't stop him from being an amazing 4th line player.

Which in some cases is better than a Wojtek Wolski type player who is either in your top 6 or is a bust.
 
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I mean if Cuylle turns into a Deslauriers and Berard becomes a Motte, that’s a win for the Rangers.

I think this is accurate. Sure, they’ve shown some promise at lower levels that makes you hope they can slot up higher eventually but there’s nothing wrong with them cutting their teeth on the lower lines and seeing where they grow from there, since unlike other prospects, their games are actually suited to that style of hockey. I like Motte enough to sign him for a couple of years so not to rush Berard, but anything more than 2 years, we should hope we can fill those roles with high energy ELC kids eventually. Look how Colton has developed in Tampa, starting out as a 4th line guy. Marchand started as a 4th line guy I believe. If they break in as 4th liners and develop into 2/3 line guys one day, it will likely coincide with guys like Kreider aging out of the top six.
 
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I think this is accurate. Sure, they’ve shown some promise at lower levels that makes you hope they can slot up higher eventually but there’s nothing wrong with them cutting their teeth on the lower lines and seeing where they grow from there, since unlike other prospects, their games are actually suited to that style of hockey. I like Motte enough to sign him for a couple of years so not to rush Berard, but anything more than 2 years, we should hope we can fill those roles with high energy ELC kids eventually. Look how Colton has developed in Tampa, starting out as a 4th line guy. Marchand started as a 4th line guy I believe. If they break in as 4th liners and develop into 2/3 line guys one day, it will likely coincide with guys like Kreider aging out of the top six.
Yeah I mean what people don’t realize is you develop these guys so you don’t have to overpay for guys like Goodrow, Motte, etc in free agency.

Especially when you are cap strapped you cannot allocate external resources here. You use your ELC guys, develop them; and if it doesn’t work you trade for them at the deadline.

Also the stigma with being a fourth liner needs to stop. These guys are role players. You get guys to fill roles. You don’t overpay for depth in free agency. That’s (usually) how you get in trouble.
 
And that all means what?

Whoever they take with the 1st overall pick will have a cap hit of 950k. That's the maximum allowable ELC salary for a player drafted in 2022 as defined in the MOU. He'll get max bonuses of 2.85 mil, but teams are allowed to exceed the cap via performance bonuses by 7.5%. 7.5% of 82.5 mil is 6.1875 mil.

3 other players on Montreal have performance bonuses in 2022-23:

Caufield: 850k
Jordan Harris: $507,500
Justin Barron: $212,500

Added to the 2.85 mil for their 1st overall, that's a total of 4.42 mil. That's well below the bonus cushion, so they won't have to account for any of it under the 82.5 mil cap. None of their other prospects have significant performance bonuses, so even if other prospects make the team, it won't be enough to go over the bonus cushion.

So they can fit Wright, or whoever, very easily under the cap.

Montreal is going to be actively trying to move other players, players who actually have value. They aren't going to give up a 1st round pick to get rid of Drouin. If Drouin actually had the value to be our 2C this year, Montreal wouldn't need to give up a 1st round pick to move him, so your entire premise is flawed.
Maybe I read it wrong but they only have 19 Roster players signed.
Only 2 million of space available.
Rangers paid Yzerman a 2nd round pick to take Marc Staal’s $5,700,000.
 
Sure but this is a deep team and they need to start somewhere. Would have no problem with them “replacing” the minutes of some of the rentals. Would much rather play them then give dumb contracts out to Motte and Vatrano. Wouldn’t be re-signing Copp or Strome either. The Rangers openings this off-season are going to be in the bottom six. Both Cuylle and Berard are left wings. They are going to have Panarin, Kreider, Lafreniere and probably Othmann in front of them for top six too.

The contracts I’m discussing aren’t dumb. A longer term allows the Rangers to also flex their financial muscle.

5 years
$2m AAV
Max up front dollars and signing bonus for $1m in years 4 and 5

That’s not a dumb deal for Motte
 
Maybe I read it wrong but they only have 19 Roster players signed.
Don’t bonuses count against the cap? I would guess any contract that Shane Wright (?) signs will have performance bonuses?
All that with only 2 million of space available.
Rangers paid Yzerman a 2nd round pick to take Marc Staal’s $5,700,000.
That's what I was trying to explain. The bonus cushion allows teams to exceed the cap by 7.5%, but only for performance bonuses. If the total potential bonuses exceed the bonus cushion, the remainder has to be accounted for under the cap. We ran into that problem last year. Montreal won't exceed the bonus cushion, even with Wright getting the full 2.85 mil. In terms of the 82.5 mil cap, he will only account for 950k.

When the season ends, they will determine which performance bonuses were earned and any unused (non-LTIR) cap space will be used to pay off those bonuses. If there isn't enough cap space to pay it off, the remainder rolls over into the next year. That's what happened to them last year. They had Weber on LTIR and they were using LTIR cap space. That meant they had no unused cap space left at the end of the year to pay off bonuses, so the bonuses rolled over to this year.

Montreal has other players they could trade. Players that actually have value to other teams. They could trade Jake Allen or Paul Byron. Both have 1 year remaining on their deals. They haven't used any of their salary retention slots, so they could retain on up to 3 players. They have options other than paying another team to take Drouin, if they end up needing cap space.
 
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That's what I was trying to explain. The bonus cushion allows teams to exceed the cap by 7.5%, but only for performance bonuses. If the total potential bonuses exceed the bonus cushion, the remainder has to be accounted for under the cap. We ran into that problem last year. Montreal won't exceed the bonus cushion, even with Wright getting the full 2.85 mil. In terms of the 82.5 mil cap, he will only account for 950k.

When the season ends, they will determine which performance bonuses were earned and any unused (non-LTIR) cap space will be used to pay off those bonuses. If there isn't enough cap space to pay it off, the remainder rolls over into the next year. That's what happened to them last year. They had Weber on LTIR and they were using LTIR cap space. That meant they had no unused cap space left at the end of the year to pay off bonuses, so the bonuses rolled over to this year.

Montreal has other players they could trade. Players that actually have value to other teams. They could trade Jake Allen or Paul Byron. Both have 1 year remaining on their deals. They haven't used any of their salary retention slots, so they could retain on up to 3 players. They have options other than paying another team to take Drouin, if they end up needing cap space.
Yeah, I don’t know how but I missed your points on bonuses, then went back to edit my response but obviously not fast enough.
Oh well, like I said, just spitballing.
 
The contracts I’m discussing aren’t dumb. A longer term allows the Rangers to also flex their financial muscle.

5 years
$2m AAV
Max up front dollars and signing bonus for $1m in years 4 and 5

That’s not a dumb deal for Motte

Well you're proposing a deal that has been given out to a UFA twice since 2005. One ended up as a buy out (Trent Hunter) and the other was just bad (Max Talbot) and ended up being traded twice, once with retention. We don't need to be the Islanders signing out entire 4th line to 5 year deals. Motte is also not a reliable player to stay in the lineup. Look at his games per year.

76 games in 16-17 split between AHL/NHL
48 games in 17-18 split between leagues
17 games in 17-18
74 games in 18-19
34 games in 19-20
24 games in 20-21
58 games in 21-22

Does that seem like a guy you want to give a long term deal to?
 
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The contracts I’m discussing aren’t dumb. A longer term allows the Rangers to also flex their financial muscle.

5 years
$2m AAV
Max up front dollars and signing bonus for $1m in years 4 and 5

That’s not a dumb deal for Motte
I think any multi year deal, especially a five year deal, for a player who is going to be playing on the fourth line is dumb. Just because I like Motte, he is not excluded from this. It’s much better to just trade another 4th rounder at the deadline for a guy in that role. Which is, you know, how they got Motte.

11 times out of 10, I am trading a mid round pick for a fourth liner rather than giving one a five year deal. Especially with Rangers cap situation.
 
I think any multi year deal, especially a five year deal, for a player who is going to be playing on the fourth line is dumb. Just because I like Motte, he is not excluded from this. It’s much better to just trade another 4th rounder at the deadline for a guy in that role. Which is, you know, how they got Motte.

11 times out of 10, I am trading a mid round pick for a fourth liner rather than giving one a five year deal. Especially with Rangers cap situation.

So with the Rangers ability to spend money in general, they should be able to create an environment where they should be the ones trading depth forwards for mid-round picks. Not the other way around.

Also, and I keep saying this, but any contract signed now will look much better when the cap jumps 2 years from now. A $2m contract is reasonable now but will look like a steal then.
 

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