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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVII

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Trading Kreider plus small add for 7th-9th overall

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Fitzy said:
Rebuilds can take a variety of time. Chicago was in the conference finals only 2 years after drafting Kane 1st overall and 3 years after Toews. Without a significant player over 29, I might add. They added Campbell as a big free agent splash who was a big help for them for a few years.

Edmonton, on the other hand, has been rebuilding since 2009.
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They were in the conference finals and signed Campbell after drafting players 1st overall and 3rd overall and having a solid and established core that included Seabrook and Keith as well as others. We don't have that yet.
 
Berserk said:
No, because Edmonton and Buffalo are poorly managed and added high priced free agents to their rosters. Not sure why that needs to keep being repeated.
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Buffalo added Okposo and Edmonton added Lucic and Sekera. Which are perfect examples of who not to sign as a UFA. Those are the contracts to avoid, not the elite talent.
 
Berserk said:
They were in the conference finals and signed Campbell after drafting players 1st overall and 3rd overall and having a solid and established core that included Seabrook and Keith as well as others. We don't have that yet.
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I think the larger point the pro-Panarin crowd is trying to make is that there's no certainty that a player of Panarin's level is available at the exact summer that we'd ideally go out and make big signings. Better to have him and not need him than need him and not have him, so to speak.
 
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Berserk said:
Or we want to rebuild a team the right way. An "accelerated rebuild" is a myth.
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There is an accelerated rebuild, it was accelerated when

ADA, Georgiev, Buch, Lemieux took a big step this year.

Will be accelerated even more should/once Chytil, Howden, Hajek, Lias, Lindgren, Shestyorkin, Rykov follow

Then even quicker once/if Kravtsov, Miller, Lundkvist do the same

The #2 pick this draft, whoever else they get in 1st this draft.

Apparently it's more difficult than I thought to attempt to look 4 year down the line, yet anything and everything that makes it out of just that list, which does not include stuff that has not played in the NHL, KHL, or was not a 1st round pick, is going to get more an more expensive whether bridged or signed long term off their entry levels, where almost all those entry levels start ending, this year, next, 2021 and almost all would end by 2023 or 2024.
 
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Berserk said:
When you pay one player a large chunk of your cap space, you are absolutely building around him. An 11 million dollar player is not a "complimentary" player. He will be expected to be best player on the team. He will be expected to play in all situations. That is building around a player. Again, to number of players who are productive into their 30's is incredibly slim, and there's been nothing to suggest that he will be one of the players that bucks that trend since the names on that list are guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, etc, and he is not on that level.

That is completely besides the fact that again, they turns this team from a bad team to a mediocre team. That doesn't advance the rebuild - it stalls it.
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It does not stall the rebuild. I equate adding Panarin to the Blackhawks adding Hossa. Young team in need of a veteran leader. NYR does not need t0 tank anymore; they got Kakko, they won the tank game. and with the prospects they have, it is hard to see them being mediocre. This team has more potential already than the ones that made those deep runs.
Also Edmonton and Buffalo didn't add any high priced free agents of note. Everyone but Chia knew Lucic was a mistake but whatever you can continue to want to lose every year. I'm sure you're in the 'trade everyone over the age of 19' group.
 
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Berserk said:
Still doesn't undermine the true reason why those rebuilds didn't work - THEY HAVE BAD MANAGEMENT.
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They have bad management, agreed. Part of that is handing out big contracts to players in UFA who are good but not elite. I would hope Rangers management is not as bad as that. Signing Panarin is not similar to that.
 
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Berserk said:
No, because Edmonton and Buffalo are poorly managed and added high priced free agents to their rosters when they shouldn't have. Not sure why that needs to keep being repeated.
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So, getting lottery picks is not the only thing?

I don't think anyone is advocating signing a Lucic or Moulson/Okposo to long-term deals.
 
Fitzy said:
I think the larger point the pro-Panarin crowd is trying to make is that there's no certainty that a player of Panarin's level is available at the exact summer that we'd ideally go out and make big signings. Better to have him and not need him than need him and not have him, so to speak.
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This is often said and then all of the sudden a player requests a trade or actually does make it to free agency. That also shouldn't be a reason to deviate from the plan, which at the end of the day will hurt us just as much as it will help us.
 
Bluto said:
It does not stall the rebuild. I equate adding Panarin to the Blackhawks adding Hossa. Young team in need of a veteran leader. NYR does not need t0 tank anymore; they got Kakko, they won the tank game. and with the prospects they have, it is hard to see them being mediocre. This team has more potential already than the ones that made those deep runs.
Also Edmonton and Buffalo didn't add any high priced free agents of note. Everyone but Chia knew Lucic was a mistake but whatever you can continue to want to lose every year. I'm sure you're in the 'trade everyone over the age of 19' group.
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The Blackhawks added Hossa the year after they made the Western Conference Finals, not the year after they drafted Toews
 
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DanielBrassard said:
They have bad management, agreed. Part of that is handing out big contracts to players in UFA who are good but not elite. I would hope Rangers management is not as bad as that. Signing Panarin is not similar to that.
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You're right, it's more similar to the Wild signing Parise and Suter. We've seen how well that has worked for them. They are the picture of mediocrity and are not anywhere near being a relevant team.
 
Berserk said:
This is often said and then all of the sudden a player requests a trade or actually does make it to free agency. That also shouldn't be a reason to deviate from the plan, which at the end of the day will hurt us just as much as it will help us.
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What is the plan? Because most of the people who cover the sport seem to think the plan is to be aggressive in UFA and in trades to make this team better soon.
 
Why are people so insistent that the Rangers wont go after Panarin and won't look to add players when everything they have said and that has been reported has been to the contrary? It's fine to not want them to do that but you just sound foolish when you say things like "they won't be going after Panarin" when you have highly established reporters for different organizations and team personnel saying otherwise.
 
DanielBrassard said:
What is the plan? Because most of the people who cover the sport seem to think the plan is to be aggressive in UFA and in trades to make this team better soon.
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Who? Larry Brooks who has an agenda and is fully against the rebuild? Who cares what these people think, I care about what Jeff Gorton thinks, and every move he has made indicates that he is going to stay the course.
 
We sign Panarin and now were the Minnesota Wild.

Got it. Because Minnesota had a Top 2 pick AND the amount of 1st round picks we have accumulated.

Definitely the same situation.
 
I think the plan has been what we are seeing, they are rebuilding through the draft and development process while still adding in some young, on the cups of the NHL players where they can, while they wait on the older not so good contracts to either become moveable or to just end.
 
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RGY said:
We sign Panarin and now were the Minnesota Wild.

Got it. Because Minnesota had a Top 2 pick AND the amount of 1st round picks we have accumulated.

Definitely the same situation.
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You seem to think having a top 2 pick means the rebuild is over. It's not. It's far from over.

Those picks and prospects we have? They are nothing more than picks and prospects until they actually ESTABLISH THEMSELVES and form a core of players that can be relied upon. We don't have that yet.
 
Berserk said:
You're right, it's more similar to the Wild signing Parise and Suter. We've seen how well that has worked for them. They are the picture of mediocrity and are not anywhere near being a relevant team.
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It's funny because Minnesota went from being bad to a really good team that consistently made the playoffs and was unfortunately in the same division as Chicago. Right now they are mediocre but that probably has more to do with the idiotic moves like trading Neiderreiter for nothing. But I'm sure they would have been much better off passing on a #1 defenseman and 1st line LW. And they made a big mistake by trading Burns for a washed up Setoguchi and Charlie Coyle, which was a bigger issue than either signing. They also never had the chance to draft 2nd overall like the Rangers will so that right there is quite a different circumstance.
 
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DanielBrassard said:
It's funny because Minnesota went from being bad to a really good team that consistently made the playoffs and was unfortunately in the same division as Chicago. Right now they are mediocre but that probably has more to do with the idiotic moves like trading Neiderreiter for nothing. But I'm sure they would have been much better off passing on a #1 defenseman and 1st line LW. And they made a big mistake by trading Burns for a washed up Setoguchi and Charlie Coyle, which was a bigger issue than either signing. They also never had the chance to draft 2nd overall like the Rangers will so that right there is quite a different circumstance.
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Really good? They've made it passed the 1st round twice in the Parise/Suter era. They are the textbook definition of mediocre. That has nothing to do with Chicago being in their division.
 
Berserk said:
You're right, it's more similar to the Wild signing Parise and Suter. We've seen how well that has worked for them. They are the picture of mediocrity and are not anywhere near being a relevant team.
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No, its not. It's not even close.

Panarin is better than both players and wont be signed until he's 40. Minnesota gave out terrible contracts to good players.
 
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Berserk said:
You seem to think having a top 2 pick means the rebuild is over. It's not. It's far from over.

Those picks and prospects we have? They are nothing more than picks and prospects until they actually ESTABLISH THEMSELVES and form a core of players that can be relied upon. We don't have that yet.
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Haha no one said the rebuild is over. No one. You just like to make shit up to spin this however you want for the Rangers to not sign Panarin. You dont want him because he makes the team better and pushes them away from back to back lottery picks.

They should keep their draft picks. Keep drafting. Had someone advocated moving draft picks for a player then that would be the idiotic signal the rebuild is over
 
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