Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVII

[NernieBichols]

That's nasty

It is humid at night. Camping outside is miserable unless you have multiple fans on you (at least that’s me)

 

[Ola]

So he's threatening to do the NCAA UFA thing. He was a Calgary pick and Calgary was worried he wouldn't sign with them, so they dealt him to Carolina and now he's come out and said he doesn't want to sign with Carolina. So he can go back to Harvard for his Senior year, but his camp has actually asked Carolina to explore trading him.

That's where the Rangers come in. Not just because we tend to land college free agents, but because Fox is a huge Rangers fan. He's from the area and there's always been speculation about him wanting to play for the Rangers. Even during his draft year there were rumblings that some teams were worried about him going the NCAA route for that very reason. So the speculation right now is that he wants to be a Ranger and he's trying to force Carolina's hand to get here.

As far as what kind of player he is, he's very much like Kevin Shattenkirk. He's a right-handed, puck moving defensemen who is a little undersized and not that great in his own end. He has very good edge work, but lacks blazing speed. However, you put the puck on his stick and he can make tape-to-tape passes out of his own end like it's nothing. Put him on the power play and that's where you see the magic start to happen. He can pick apart a PK about as well as any D prospect I've seen in the last 10 years. He just zips passes between bodies, over sticks, and hits a guy you didn't even think could be hit with a pass. It's very special to watch. That being said, he's just an okay shooter. He's not really even much of a threat to shoot at all on the PP.

So while he'd be a great addition as a UFA, or if we could nab him with a late 2nd or early 3rd round pick, he's not a future top-pairing guy who is going to define the Rangers blue line for the next 15 years. He's more of a bottom pairing guy who maybe slots in as a #4 if he hits his ceiling, but makes his money on the man-advantage.

Great description!

I agree with everything, but would be a little bit more hopeful regarding his upside. But you never ‘quite’ know until you see the kid making the transition to the NHL. But for a D so much is about being consistent and execute under pressure night in and night out.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

If signing Panarin to a contract is a huge mistake then resigning Kreider is one as well. All the same arguements being made to not sign Panarin are the same, and possibly more fitting, for Kreider.

• Panarin will be 27 when his contract starts VS Kreider at 29.
• True playoff contender status is in 4 years likely. Kreider would be 33 VS Panarin 31.
• Kreider is a power forward. Power forwards, in general, break down earlier in their careers.
• Kreider has not scored more than 28 goals or 53 points. Do we want to pay 7 or 8 years at $7MM+ for that? He does bring other intangibles to the table but those will start to depreciate as he ages. Panarin averages 80pts and 29 goals. Panarin has less wear and tear on his body.

Not saying they have to sign Panarin but should be thinking of the same rationale not to resign Kreider.

 

[Kovalev27]

I agree if you are keeping kreider then sign Panarin if you are trading kreider then there’s no reason to sign Panarin. Go all in on continuing the rebuild or go all in on getting back to the playoffs. Just don’t do things half way.

 

[NYR Viper]

Disgusting

I’d agree with the original poster. I’d be fine with Brassard for 1 year and Boyle for a couple. Callahan back to make the TB pick their 1st is totally fine with me as well.

Of course these would be predicated on Vesey, Kreider and possibly one of Namestnikov or Fast being traded.

 

[Fitzy]

Dreampt that Panarin resigned for 7x11.1 and it totally threw me this morning.

Guess he's still on the market .

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Dreampt that Panarin resigned for 7x11.1 and it totally threw me this morning.

Guess he's still on the market .

It's not easy to separate dreams from reality this week

 

[Ola]

I agree if you are keeping kreider then sign Panarin if you are trading kreider then there’s no reason to sign Panarin. Go all in on continuing the rebuild or go all in on getting back to the playoffs. Just don’t do things half way.

I still think you want to give the kids someone to play with. But that can be a vet cap dump like Hoffman instead of Panarin/Kreider, but don’t think going all kids should be an option.

 

[Kovalev27]

No see I don’t want cap dumps. Build a team here. I think with Kakko Kravtsov and Fox coming in you add now if you can. Id keep CK I’d sign panarin and I’d sign Tyler Myers.

I find a home for Shattenkirk and I believe Thrill Chytil is your number 2 next year. If he’s not able to hold it Strome can do it. But I’m trying to make the playoffs and compete next year.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Would you trade Kreider for Panarin + 8-15th pick?
If yes I don’t see why we don’t trade Kreider & sign Panarin

 

[Leetch3]

The thing that keeps getting in the way for me is Panarin on the PP is at his best in Mika’s spot. If you take Mika out of that half wall spot his goals and points are going to drop for sure. Kakko and Kravtsov both are great on that other side so I don’t even want to move Panarin over there. Power plays are such a big part of the game these days and where star players get their money.

Is Panarin really that great a fit? I keep going back and forth on that.

all other things being equal i'd be willing to live with having 2 lethal pp units

 

[SA16]

all other things being equal i'd be willing to live with having 2 lethal pp units

I also can not see anything negative about having great insurance for an injury.

 

[Kovalev27]

all other things being equal i'd be willing to live with having 2 lethal pp units

That doesn’t ever work though. The top pairing gets a minute and a half a lot of times. You’re going to have Panarin or Zibanejad on PP2? Probably not

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I get the term Power Forward with CK, but he is more of a hybrid PF imo. I would like to see him moved at the draft, but for some reason the term PF always didn't feel right with CK to me.

 

[Leetch3]

That doesn’t ever work though. The top pairing gets a minute and a half a lot of times. You’re going to have Panarin or Zibanejad on PP2? Probably not

i'm leaning toward being against signing him cause of the contract and we'd waste the first 2-3 years before we are ready to contend...but we'd have too much talent to play everyone isn't a reason to not sign him lol

 

[Kovalev27]

i'm leaning toward being against signing him cause of the contract and we'd waste the first 2-3 years before we are ready to contend...but we'd have too much talent to play everyone isn't a reason to not sign him lol

We’re too good bro lol

 

[Matt4776]

If signing Panarin to a contract is a huge mistake then resigning Kreider is one as well. All the same arguements being made to not sign Panarin are the same, and possibly more fitting, for Kreider.

• Panarin will be 27 when his contract starts VS Kreider at 29.
• True playoff contender status is in 4 years likely. Kreider would be 33 VS Panarin 31.
• Kreider is a power forward. Power forwards, in general, break down earlier in their careers.
• Kreider has not scored more than 28 goals or 53 points. Do we want to pay 7 or 8 years at $7MM+ for that? He does bring other intangibles to the table but those will start to depreciate as he ages. Panarin averages 80pts and 29 goals. Panarin has less wear and tear on his body.

Not saying they have to sign Panarin but should be thinking of the same rationale not to resign Kreider.

Agree. Which is why I think we should not sign Panarin, and trade Kreider.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

I don't understand, how and why signing Kreider has to be so expensive.

It's like a given on this board that Kreider can and will comand a salary of around 7 million/year ...

HOW ?!?! Is he going to argue that to the FO? WHY ?!?! would he even think of asking such a high price.

Hasn't cracked 60 pts once, cracked 50 twice. Great athletics, great defensively, the occasional massive brain fart.

I don't see any possibility of Kreider signing a deal above 6mil/year. Unless he has like a 70 pts giganto season next year. (Ain't happening)


edit: it's like you have to have at least one albatross contract.

 

[LORDE]

I wish I live in Florida too, cute crocs, no income tax and hot sandy beaches, and women barely use clothes there!
At least a paradise when there are no tropical storms.

I live in Orlando.

Can confirm crocs not cute, no beaches but the women and clothes is fairly accurate

 

[Kovalev27]

If the price to get zegras is kreider and Pionk I’d probably do it. Zegras is now being listed at 6’0 almost 170 lbs. he’ll put on weight. That’s got to be adding to his rise.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't understand, how and why signing Kreider has to be so expensive.

It's like a given on this board that Kreider can and will comand a salary of around 7 million/year ...

HOW ?!?! Is he going to argue that to the FO? WHY ?!?! would he even think of asking such a high price.

Hasn't cracked 60 pts once, cracked 50 twice. Great athletics, great defensively, the occasional massive brain fart.

I don't see any possibility of Kreider signing a deal above 6mil/year. Unless he has like a 70 pts giganto season next year. (Ain't happening)

$7m is second line money for UFAs at this point. You're talking like it's a lot.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

$7m is second line money for UFAs at this point. You're talking like it's a lot.

Just because there is a somewhat perceived norm as to paying out players just for the heck of it, I don't buy it. "oh, that's what a second liner is worth now", no.

Also the economy of the league will be f***ed soon. There is only that much cap space overall, yet GM are dishing out massive contract left and right.

It is a lot, for Kreider. If we overpay every player by half a million or a million, we circumcise ourselves 1-2 players ...

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

That's nasty

Living inside Gary Dell’Abate’s mouth

 

[Mikos87]

I don't understand, how and why signing Kreider has to be so expensive.

It's like a given on this board that Kreider can and will comand a salary of around 7 million/year ...

HOW ?!?! Is he going to argue that to the FO? WHY ?!?! would he even think of asking such a high price.

Hasn't cracked 60 pts once, cracked 50 twice. Great athletics, great defensively, the occasional massive brain fart.

edit: it's like you have to have at least one albatross contract.

It's just fan bias because a bunch of guys here are big fans of Kreider. IMO Kreider's market value is maxed out at the Saad deal, and that's an over payment.

For a guy whose "good defensively", he doesn't kill penalties. Never has, and he's got a ton of speed.

So take it for what it's worth. He's a very good net front presence, and a very good top 6 winger. But a complimentary one at that.

For a guy whose been with the big club for parts of 8 seasons.... a ~130 goals shouldn't net you 7x$7M deal. It's highly unlikely that goal total hits 300 within that span, and you're paying $49M for an incremental 140 over that span taking injuries and consistency issues into account.

What he will provide is 25 goals and 45 points while being a very effective 5v5 player for the next 3-4 years. Which is what a team like ARI needs to put them into a playoff level team provided their other guys stay healthy

You've got arguments here on the topic like single voter issue debates. Let's look at things objectively and holistically.

Kreider getting re-signed <<<<<< a 1st round pick + cap space to sign Panarin

 

[Matt4776]

It's just fan bias because a bunch of guys here are big fans of Kreider. IMO Kreider's market value is maxed out at the Saad deal, and that's an over payment.

For a guy whose "good defensively", he doesn't kill penalties. Never has, and he's got a ton of speed.

So take it for what it's worth. He's a very good net front presence, and a very good top 6 winger. But a complimentary one at that.

For a guy whose been with the big club for parts of 8 seasons.... a ~130 goals shouldn't net you 7x$7M deal. It's highly unlikely that goal total hits 300 within that span, and you're paying $49M for an incremental 140 over that span taking injuries and consistency issues into account.

What he will provide is 25 goals and 45 points while being a very effective 5v5 player for the next 3-4 years. Which is what a team like ARI needs to put them into a playoff level team provided their other guys stay healthy

You've got arguments here on the topic like single voter issue debates. Let's look at things objectively and holistically.

Kreider getting re-signed <<<<<< a 1st round pick + cap space to sign Panarin

Not disagreeing with the bulk of the post, but...

A 1st round pick + cap space to sign Panarin<<<<<<<a 1st round pick + cap space to sign a Panarin-esque player when the Rangers are actually ready to compete.