Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVI

[E-Train]

Our post-draft potential reminds me of that 1990/1991 timeframe.

You had guys like Amonte, Weight, Kovalev, Zubov, etc. in the system, but you also players like Leetch and Turcotte, who were 22/23 at the time. Not prospects, but still young players.

Even Richter was in the same ballpark as Georgiev/Shesterkin.

Add that Lemieux is the same age Graves was in ‘91-‘92. I don’t expect 26 goals but similar energy and enforcement.

 

[darko]

I do not believe they need to move Kreider. They can move other assets, such as packaging picks to move up IF they want to. They may want to stock more players.

Fox will not cost them Kreider or Skjei.

Where does Shattenkirk go? He wont be able to move. He has a NMC with a team list. He isnt cheap. His game has regressed.

You have Fox at LD but he is a RD.

Do not see Trouba has a huge upgrade from Skjei. They have very similar NHL time and statistics, the big difference being is Skjei has been on a dumpster fire of a team the last two seasons. I give just as much **** as anyone because i dont think he is all that smart, but he has been asked to play top pairing minutes when he is not suited for it. And last year in a non existent defensive system. Everyone loves Trouba, but he makes his mistakes too on the ice.

Cant assume Hajek will make it. Certainly cant assume Rykov will.

I think it is more likely they sign a stop gap veteran defenseman like Stralman, while they let their young defenseman continue to develop. Lindgren, Rykov, Miller, Keane, Lundkvist, Reunanen, Gross. And whomever they draft this year.

Kreider can walk next season.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Who said anything about walking away from players? They havent made any decisions yet. Nothing has happened.

So then what? You dont sign your two young stars because you dont want to spend the money? The cap has been going up each year. And even with giving Matthews his contract, before that they added Marleau and then Tavares. They have saved money at the goaltending position. They re-signed Nylander. Their defense is lacking beyond Reilly, but who was out there to sign? I mean they added Muzzin. They have some young guys they were banking on.

After the season they will figure Marner out. Even if it means dealing Nylander, but they likely had to explore that anyway to add a defender. They are deep at forward because they accumulated a lot of assets. They can move Nylander and something else to add someone like Trouba. Who knows. Or a younger cheaper defender.

You sign Panarin. You re-sign Kreider. You cant worry about what Kakko and Kravtsov will get in 3 years in their next contract. You have no idea what they will be worth. And at that time, the cap will likely have gone up coupled with $26 million coming off the books from Smith-Staal-Shatty-Hank. Move out Vesey and Namestnikov and you have Kreider’s money.

Of course you sign your 2 stars. The leafs have to figure out how to be better next year while losing an important defender for nothing after losing two important forwards last year for nothing. They definitely trade away one of, if not two of, Nylander, Kapanen and Johnsson this year to get under the cap. The cap has been going up every year for the Leafs too, their screw it attitude will cost them young talent and their consolation prize is a pair of quick exits.

We don't even have a Reilly to man our defense. Talk about lacking, we are worse. Who was out there to sign anyway? That's your question? That absolves them for adding $18m at forward on a forward rich team? They don't have the cap to sign anyone even if free agency was loaded with defense.

The leafs forced their timeline. Pushed their chips in to win while carrying ELCs. Like us, they have a better offense than defense. Like us, they were carrying dead cap. Like them, we are considering adding a forward to our offense.

They can be a model for our build, but you still have to recognize the mistakes. You can't deny that they have concerns. Their defense cost them playoff runs. The free agent forwards prevented any chance of fixing the d.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If the coach Q hire and the lure of the beach isn't enough for Panarin and JG wants to get dumb (less dumb now that we know where we're picking), The Rangers can literally put together an entire line of guys who scored the game winner in the world junior gold medal game.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Imagine complaining about the second contracts for players who haven't even signed their ELCs yet.

Amazing.

That is not what he said. He was saying to landscape means we will probably pay a premium on the 2nd contract. Free agents will hurt our ability to sign our own guys.

It wasn't cryptic. It's already a long offseason, can we not invent ways to attack RB?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

If we don't lock Kreider up this off-season, he should be moved at the draft. There is no sense in saving him until the deadline.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Just gonna throw his name out there, but with all the Panarin talk about the place.

How about Jeff Skinner ? This kid just kills the Rangers

Pass

 

[haohmaru]

That is not what he said. He was saying to landscape means we will probably pay a premium on the 2nd contract. Free agents will hurt our ability to sign our own guys.

It wasn't cryptic. It's already a long offseason, can we not invent ways to attack RB?

The problem with that is he doesn't want to sign "our own guys" either.

 

[Leetch3]

What’s the age cutoff on contracts sliding again? Let’s say we sign Kravtsov with a khl out and let him go back to Russia for a year. Does that burn the 1st year of the elc even if he doesn’t play 10 games?

 

[cheech70]

Trade assets
Krieder
Skjei
Picks in first 2 rounds not 2oa
Georgiev


Team needs
right defense
center

If we sign Breadman our wing weakness throughout the organization disappears.

Acquire Fox and Maybe Trouba

What about Duchene as 2c?

 

[Ola]

Yeah you have people like Boomer Esaison declaring the rebuild over already lol.

Rebuilding is a multi-process endeavor.

The tanking process ended the second we got the ping pong ball we wanted. Why? The assets on your team are hurt by tanking, but you gain assets by getting higher draft picks. With the way the lottery is designed, there is no way it’s worth gunning to be 28-29 instead of where ever we end up, unless we really are trying to lose. After the deadline it might change a bit if you are out of it. Remember, this certainly does not mean that we won’t finish low or get a high pick again. So many of the worst teams in this league didn’t try to suck. Sure we are positive now, but we aren’t immune to that.

Many think so, but those expectations are way out of the ball park. There has never been a quick successful rebuild in this league without a team getting a mega generational talent. Sure we can be the first and start to make the POs in a couple of years and be a contender and 3-4, it’s not impossible, but Gorts and Quinn certainly got their work cut out for them. Is Boston an example of a fast smooth rebuild? But did they really rebuild?

HOWEVER, the only making asset positive moves is certainly not over. Manage cap space. Do not sign players to bad deals to short term gain. Trade players rather than sign contracts that won’t help us more than they cost us. I wonder if that phase ever should be over. Trading 1st for rentals etc.

Building a team the right way, that shouldn’t be over.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Trade assets
Krieder
Skjei
Picks in first 2 rounds not 2oa
Georgiev


Team needs
right defense
center

If we sign Breadman our wing weakness throughout the organization disappears.

Acquire Fox and Maybe Trouba

What about Duchene as 2c?

NO

 

[Ghost of jas]

That is not what he said. He was saying to landscape means we will probably pay a premium on the 2nd contract. Free agents will hurt our ability to sign our own guys.

It wasn't cryptic. It's already a long offseason, can we not invent ways to attack RB?

RB gets it right until he suggests trading Zibanejad again. Mika just got his running mate. Give it two years and Zibanejad/Kakko are both on the verge of being 80+ point players.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

RB gets it right until he suggests trading Zibanejad again. Mika just got his running mate. Give it two years and Zibanejad/Kakko are both on the verge of being 80+ point players.

Mika already is.

 

[darko]

Trade assets
Krieder
Skjei
Picks in first 2 rounds not 2oa
Georgiev


Team needs
right defense
center

If we sign Breadman our wing weakness throughout the organization disappears.

Acquire Fox and Maybe Trouba

What about Duchene as 2c?

What sort of contract do you give to Duchene? He probably gets 7/56. He's 28 and that contract takes him to 35. That contract becomes an albatross by 2021. Haven't we learnt our lesson?

Good luck trading for Trouba. He won't come cheap. Trouba is RFA and wants to get paid. Are you prepared to shell out 8 mill per season on Trouba.

You are setting the team back for years.

 

[darko]

RB gets it right until he suggests trading Zibanejad again. Mika just got his running mate. Give it two years and Zibanejad/Kakko are both on the verge of being 80+ point players.

This. I agree with most of the things RB says. Trading Ziba isn't one.

 

[Ghost of jas]

What sort of contract do you give to Duchene? He probably gets 7/56. He's 28 and that contract takes him to 35. That contract becomes an albatross by 2021. Haven't we learnt our lesson?

Good luck trading for Trouba. He won't come cheap. Trouba is RFA and wants to get paid. Are you prepared to shell out 8 mill per season on Trouba.

You are setting the team back for years.

Thank goodness Ranger management has yet to express any indication that they’re going down the road the more impetuous posters here have suggested.

 

[DutchShamrock]

The problem with that is he doesn't want to sign "our own guys" either.

RB gets it right until he suggests trading Zibanejad again. Mika just got his running mate. Give it two years and Zibanejad/Kakko are both on the verge of being 80+ point players.

Legit criticisms and fair representations of his statements. Saying he is complaining about the 2nd contracts of Kakko and Kratsov is patently false.

I don't want to be an advocate for anyone, and he certainly lacks a finesse with discussions, but the summer is contentious enough. We don't need to manufacture arguments and then spend pages clarifying some pretty clear posts.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

What sort of contract do you give to Duchene? He probably gets 7/56. He's 28 and that contract takes him to 35. That contract becomes an albatross by 2021. Haven't we learnt our lesson?

Good luck trading for Trouba. He won't come cheap. Trouba is RFA and wants to get paid. Are you prepared to shell out 8 mill per season on Trouba.

You are setting the team back for years.

I don't think thats a horrible deal for him. Durability is an issue, but Trouba is a good player.

We need to give the trio of rookies from this year an opportunity to grown into that 2C role behind Zibanejad. No need for Duchene or any other center unless it's a guy who you just can't say no to.

Our focus really needs to be on the defense. It's going to be hard to get much done with the 3s' still here.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I do not believe they need to move Kreider. They can move other assets, such as packaging picks to move up IF they want to. They may want to stock more players.

Fox will not cost them Kreider or Skjei.

Where does Shattenkirk go? He wont be able to move. He has a NMC with a team list. He isnt cheap. His game has regressed.

You have Fox at LD but he is a RD.

Do not see Trouba has a huge upgrade from Skjei. They have very similar NHL time and statistics, the big difference being is Skjei has been on a dumpster fire of a team the last two seasons. I give just as much **** as anyone because i dont think he is all that smart, but he has been asked to play top pairing minutes when he is not suited for it. And last year in a non existent defensive system. Everyone loves Trouba, but he makes his mistakes too on the ice.

Cant assume Hajek will make it. Certainly cant assume Rykov will.

I think it is more likely they sign a stop gap veteran defenseman like Stralman, while they let their young defenseman continue to develop. Lindgren, Rykov, Miller, Keane, Lundkvist, Reunanen, Gross. And whomever they draft this year.

jake trouba would be a huge upgrade to this defense.

dont kid yourself.

 

[darko]

I don't think thats a horrible deal for him. Durability is an issue, but Trouba is a good player.

We need to give the trio of rookies from this year an opportunity to grown into that 2C role behind Zibanejad. No need for Duchene or any other center unless it's a guy who you just can't say no to.

Our focus really needs to be on the defense. It's going to be hard to get much done with the 3s' still here.

Something like 8/64 for Trouba isn't really an issue. It's trading for him. I don't think Kreider alone gets us Trouba.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I don't think thats a horrible deal for him. Durability is an issue, but Trouba is a good player.

We need to give the trio of rookies from this year an opportunity to grown into that 2C role behind Zibanejad. No need for Duchene or any other center unless it's a guy who you just can't say no to.

Our focus really needs to be on the defense. It's going to be hard to get much done with the 3s' still here.

I think they’re getting the next top six center in either this draft or next. Both Andersson and Chytil will end up on the wing. Howden will be the 3C.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I’m going to throw out an alternate option, despite me wanting Panarin. Say he does indeed go play for Q in Florida, why not target Gusev or Kaprizov? I know Vegas was closer to bringing their kid over compared to Minnesota, but both are absolute studs in the KHL and would be instantly cheaper than Panarin.

Idk what the cost would be, but I’d hope Gorton is at least looking into a savvy move like that.

 

[RGY]

Kreider can walk next season.

And I am saying to re-sign him.

Also, if we dont sign Panarin, then I have no interest in other high priced free agents. Not big on EK because i dont think his body holds up. Duchene contract has disaster written all over it.

Panarin or bust.

And by bust, I mean we go sign a cheap vet for the 3rd line 2nd line tweener role.

 

[darko]

And I am saying to re-sign him.

Also, if we dont sign Panarin, then I have no interest in other high priced free agents. Not big on EK because i dont think his body holds up. Duchene contract has disaster written all over it.

Panarin or bust.

And by bust, I mean we go sign a cheap vet for the 3rd line 2nd line tweener role.

Kreider's next contract scares me.