Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVI

[effen]

We’ll have Kakko, Kravtsov & Buch on RW. Does one of them move to the left? I think Buch is much more than a 3rd like winger

This isn't any sort of problem until the year after next at the very, very earliest.

 

[smoneil]

I think Kreider goes to Arizona for a Lawson Crouse or Christian Dvorak + a pick thats not their 1st this year.

It's odd--the second I saw that we got a top 2 pick, I immediately thought that the odds of re-signing Kreider just went up. This team is still all kinds of weak at LW. If they sign Panarin, they can ice pretty competitive top 6:

Panarin Zib Kakko
Kreider Chytil Kravtsov
Strome Howden Buch
Lemieux Lias Fast

Could use Names and Vesey as chips to move a later pick up a bit (while also freeing up some salary for Panarin). The D would still be a bit of an adventure, but there's more skill in that top 6 than the Rangers have had in recent memory.

 

[Ola]

OK here it goes. My take on this.

1. We got the best player in the draft, AINEC. 1/3/5 years from now it might change. But today he is the best guy.

Kaapo Kakko, the king of wrap arounds, may not be a great skater, but he is a winner. He is strong. He is smart. He can shoot the puck really well. And he really really competes hard. That is why you take him 2nd overall.

And when it comes to his skating, think Jack Eichel, it will be discussed a lot. Sometime it may cause us concern. But it’s not bad, it won’t prevent him from doing — great — things in the NHL. His top speed is top notch, his movement in thighs quarters is great. The kid is young and will grow into his body a bit more.

Kakko is the most NHL ready player in this year’s draft, more so than Svechnikov was last year IMHO.

2. Who is Kaapo Kakko, where does he play? How does he play?

First of all, I think he is a RW, not a center. For us. I think a more mature team with a need for a top center down the road could have slated him in at C and let him mature there over a few years. Kind of like we did with Hayes. But we will want more and we will want it sooner. I think he would be too exposed at center at age 18-19 in the NHL.

In terms of role on a team, Kakko plays more or less exactly the same role, fills the same position on his line, on a PP unit, as Pavel Buchnevich.

3. Mika Zibanejad Kaapo Kakko = True.

They think the game the same way. They are so focused. They are so smart at keeping the puck within the team. They are strong. They might of course not start on the same line, I think its easy to forget how much endurance you must have to play up towards 20 minutes at the speed a NHL game is. If you play in juniors or at lower levels, you can play at that 70-80% muscle capacity level later in shifts or in games. But that won't work in the NHL, you can't take that extra breath or wait those extra seconds before taking the next stride. Look at a kid like Brendan Lemieux, he is in great shape in many ways. Beat guys like Ehlers and the likes in fastest skater competitions in Winnipeg. He wasn't ready to play 15 minutes of 5 on 5 hockey this season. Quinn needed to hold him back.

But sooner rather than later Ziba and KK should line up next to each other.

4. Guess who got a new pair of lucky underwear? That's right, @Amazing Kreiderman. Look Alex, lets set a few things straight. You are not using these pairs on dates, salary negotiations, or whatever. This fan base needs them, they are our relic.

5. If the Ziba-KK link is true, who should play LW with them?

I think this means that we are keeping Chris Kreider. He will provide a lot of stability to those two. But -- again, sooner rather than later -- I think Vitaly Kravtsov would be optimal next to Ziba-KK. I also think it would be huge for Kravy's development to play in a high caliber offensive environment like that.

6. Who knows, but I do not think that this will mean that we will go out and gun for Artem Panarin. With Florida getting Q, it seems impossible to get him without coming out on top of a tough bidding war.

You could make the counter argument, Kakko is a big guy. Ziba is a big guy. Kravy is a big guy. Chytil is a big guy. Buch is a big guy. Kreider is a big guy. How about some speed and skill and dash and flash in Panarin? And sure, I buy it. But I just don't think our cap situation is optimal for taking on someone like Panarin. If we keep Kreider and resign our kids to good long-term deals, we could barely squeeze in Panarin. I think its wiser to spend that on the blueline.

I think our top 6 will be:
Kravy-Ziba-KK
Kreider-Chytil-Buch

Howden, Fast, Lias, Lemieux, Boo and Strome rounds out -- my? -- top 6. And I am far from convinced that we actually will move Vesey and Namestnikov. But if two kids make our line-up it does create a bit of a log-jam up front.
Lemieux-Lias-Strome
Howden-Boo-Fast

7. If Buch and Kakko plays the same type of role, does that impact Buch's contract? Nah, I don't see that.

8. Look, in a league were speed is premiered and smaller players regulary are doing a lot better than their bigger counter parts up front, we are building a really big team. I posted a top 6 above in which every player is 6'2 or bigger.

Tampa Bay Lightnings just set point records during the regular season. TBL does not have a single forward bigger than 6'1. Not one.

But I don't think it has to be a problem. These guys are 6'2 not 6'4. They can skate etc. However, I do think having a defensemen like Tony Deangelo will be a lot more important if we put forward 6 top 6 forwards 6'2 or bigger.

He is so great at getting the puck up ice. Setting things up. I do hope that Gorton realize that.

 

[effen]

It's odd--the second I saw that we got a top 2 pick, I immediately thought that the odds of re-signing Kreider just went up. This team is still all kinds of weak at LW. If they sign Panarin, they can ice pretty competitive top 6:

I don't see the wisdom in having $18M tied up in your top 2 LWs while having $17M tied up in Shattenkirk, Smith, and Staal, three 5th-7th defensemen and a 37 year old $8.5M goalie while having a total kiddie corps of centermen and right wingers and zero top pairing defensemen on the roster.

 

[smoneil]

I don't see the wisdom in having $18M tied up in your top 2 LWs while having $17M tied up in Shattenkirk, Smith, and Staal, three 5th-7th defensemen and a 37 year old $8.5M goalie while having a total kiddie corps of centermen and right wingers and zero top pairing defensemen on the roster.

1- I don’t see Kreider and Panarin adding up to $18m.
2- Now is actually the perfect time to invest on that left wing. The money is there right now, and when they need to free up money to sign some of these kids to their 2nd contracts, guys like Smith, Staal, Shattenkirk, and Lundqvist will be coming off the books. Frankly, if the money makes sense, I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing back Hayes for that 2nd line.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

1- I don’t see Kreider and Panarin adding up to $18m.

You don’t? Panarin at 11M and Kreider at 7M.

you could nitpick but 18M is right in the ball park.

 

[QJL]

This could be a monster offseason

Kakko
Panarin
Shestyorkin
Kravtsov
Rykov
Reunanan
Barron

Chance at special contracts for Buch and DeAngelo

Additional 1st(s)

Wow.

 

[Ola]

We’ll have Kakko, Kravtsov & Buch on RW. Does one of them move to the left? I think Buch is much more than a 3rd like winger

Kravtsov can definitely play LW, in fact I think it will be valuable for him early in his NHL career. At RW he can turn into the ice, but early in his career those situations won’t be that common anyway. His game at LW would be more straight forward and easier to adopt to.

 

[Vitto79]

Trade Vesey or Namestnikov for Fox
Trade Shattenkirk for 2nd rounder
Trade Namestnikov for a 3rd rounder + 7th rounder

Expect 1 more non playoff year . All the kids are developing . You play Vesey , Names ,Fast then move at the deadline

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Expect 1 more non playoff year . All the kids are developing . You play Vesey , Names ,Fast then move at the deadline

Why wait for deadline when we need to make roster space for prospects? Expect somebody to be traded between now and start of the season.

 

[BBKers]

Kreider-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-Chytil-Buch
Names (future Kravtsov)-Howden-Strome
Lemieux-Andersson-Fast
Bogosian (for Vesey)

Hajek - Trouba
Staal (future Miller) - ADA
Shattenkirk (future Rykov/Lindgren) - Fox (rights for Pionk)
Claesson

Interesting Goalie Situation

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I dont think you resign Kreider and sign Panarin. Its either:

• Resign Kreider and dont sign Panarin.
• Trade Kreider for say the #14 and sign Panarin.

This shouldn't linger. Rangers need to make a decision on Kreider before the draft.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Panarin-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Chytil-Hayes-Kakko
Lemieux-Andersson-Kravtsov
Namestnikov-Howden-Fast
Nieves

Skjei-DeAngelo
Hajek-Shattenkirk
Smith-Fox
Claesson

Lundqvist
Georgiev

LTIR: Staal

Traded for picks/prospects: Kreider, Strome, Vesey, Pionk

UFA signings: Panarin ($11.5M, 7 years), Hayes ($7M, 7 years, may be able to be signed for less - went pessimistic)

RFA signings: Buchnevich ($5M, 8 years), DeAngelo (QO $874k), Lemieux (QO $874k), Claesson (QO $735k).

$8M cap space

 

[Vitto79]

Why wait for deadline when we need to make roster space for prospects? Expect somebody to be traded between now and start of the season.

Cause the kids may need more time in the minors and it’s not like those 3 UFAs are getting much now vs waiting

 

[egelband]

LTIR: Staal

What happened to Staal?

 

[Dijock94]

What happened to Staal?

He developed allergies to his equipment. And DeAngelo took a rookie deal.

 

[Ola]

I dont think you resign Kreider and sign Panarin. Its either:

• Resign Kreider and dont sign Panarin.
• Trade Kreider for say the #14 and sign Panarin.

This shouldn't linger. Rangers need to make a decision on Kreider before the draft.

Yeah, and Chris Kreider must also make a decision. It’s important to remember that it’s two parties in this affair.

Will Kreider look to really break the bank? Does he think he can score 30-35 goals next season? Well, then it’s going to cost a lot over the coming 7 years to keep him.

Is he prepared to take a shorter deal? A moderate AAV?

Resigning him might not even be an option. Wouldn’t be the first time someone looked to max his earnings. Or a very reasonable deal can be worked out. Who knows?

 

[RangerBoy]

Nothing changes with Kaapo Kakko. The Rangers got the right ping pong ball combination.

If Kakko and Kravtsov pan out and become the big time, high end forwards everyone expects them to be, they will each cost $10M or more per in their 2nd contracts. The Rangers are paying $30M plus on three wingers? The trend is paying the top young players big money out of entry level.

This isn't the NFL where teams try to win with their QB making rookie money. Those NFL contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. Those team can walk away from the player after two years of a four year contract. The Jets and Le'Veon Bell. The 4 year contract worth $52.5M. $35M guaranteed. $60.15M max with all of incentives being reached. The Jets can walk away after the 2nd season. It's essentially a two year contract.

The Jets are trying to win it while Sam Darnold is making rookie money. The Eagles won it with Carson Wentz making rookie money but he got hurt. Nick Foles lead them to the Super Bowl. The Bears are trying to win it with Mitch Trubisky before his rookie deal expires. Same thing with the Rams and Jared Goff.

In the NHL, these contracts are all guaranteed. There is no easy way out. The Rangers will still have Panarin under contract for 4 more years and they will need every penny possible to pay their own guys. The NFL teams can dump the players they acquired to pay the QB and everyone else. The Rangers won't be able to do that with Panarin.

There is a beautiful spot waiting for Artemi in Miami. Southbeach. Joel Queeneville. Nice weather. No state taxes. Sasha Barkov.

Let's not become the Leafs who will have $40M tied up in Tavares, Matthews, Marner and Nylander. There isn't much money left over to fill out the team with quality players.

 

[Blue Blooded]

He developed allergies to his equipment. And DeAngelo took a rookie deal.

I just want to avoid the 2-year bridge which would bite us in the ass. I think DeAngelo wants to put another season on his resumé before being willing to sign a long term deal. There is cap space for him to sign a 7-8 year contract (which should be the minimum length if we go long) even if we can't LTIR Staal if we can dump off Names' deal.

 

[RangerBoy]

I am going to spitball that there’s probably no deal or combination of picks that will inspire the Rangers to move down from 2.

Now, had they landed the third pick? I think that would’ve been a possibility.

The Rangers will keep half of an eye trained on Hughes in case the Devils go way back in their history and pull a Neil Brady or an Adrian Foster. They will also continue to closely monitor winger Vasili Podkolzin and centers Trevor Zegras, Alex Turcotte, Dylan Cozens and Kirby Dach in case Gorton is able to double-dip in the top seven or eight by way of a trade.

https://nypost.com/2019/04/09/kaapo-kakko-time-rangers-future-just-got-a-lot-brighter/

Which player gets Gorton another top 7/8 pick? The same player who the GM said had a career year.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

If Kakko AND Kravtsov are due to make $10m+ after their ELCs then that's a good thing and means we've been contenders for atleast a couple years… Can't use that as a reason to not sign Panarin this summer, that's deeply flawed reasoning.

 

[Dijock94]

I just want to avoid the 2-year bridge which would bite us in the ass. I think DeAngelo wants to put another season on his resumé before being willing to sign a long term deal. There is cap space for him to sign a 7-8 year contract (which should be the minimum length if we go long) even if we can't LTIR Staal if we can dump off Names' deal.

Maybe he would take a one year deal. Probably going to cost a little more than his QO.

Nothing changes with Kaapo Kakko. The Rangers got the right ping pong ball combination.

If Kakko and Kravtsov pan out and become the big time, high end forwards everyone expects them to be, they will each cost $10M or more per in their 2nd contracts. The Rangers are paying $30M plus on three wingers? The trend is paying the top young players big money out of entry level.

This isn't the NFL where teams try to win with their QB making rookie money. Those NFL contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. Those team can walk away from the player after two years of a four year contract. The Jets and Le'Veon Bell. The 4 year contract worth $52.5M. $35M guaranteed. $60.15M max with all of incentives being reached. The Jets can walk away after the 2nd season. It's essentially a two year contract.

The Jets are trying to win it while Sam Darnold is making rookie money. The Eagles won it with Carson Wentz making rookie money but he got hurt. Nick Foles lead them to the Super Bowl. The Bears are trying to win it with Mitch Trubisky before his rookie deal expires. Same thing with the Rams and Jared Goff.

In the NHL, these contracts are all guaranteed. There is no easy way out. The Rangers will still have Panarin under contract for 4 more years and they will need every penny possible to pay their own guys. The NFL teams can dump the players they acquired to pay the QB and everyone else. The Rangers won't be able to do that with Panarin.

There is a beautiful spot waiting for Artemi in Miami. Southbeach. Joel Queeneville. Nice weather. No state taxes. Sasha Barkov.

Let's not become the Leafs who will have $40M tied up in Tavares, Matthews, Marner and Nylander. There isn't much money left over to fill out the team with quality players.

I agree with you x10000. We’re need to be very cautious about the money we throw around in the next couple years. It could easily force us into a situation where we can’t keep all the guys we drafted if we aren’t careful. Like WPG and CHI.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

If Panarin wants to sign and it's a reasonable contract (for an elite player) then we gotta do it. I'm fine trading Kreider if it's for the right type of deal, not fine trading him for pure futures, getting Kakko Changes the timetable.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I would prefer to trade Kreider and sign Panarin.

However, I am more convinced now than before that we should move Kreider and not sign Panarin.

I don't see how last night changes that at all. If anything, adding a Kakko/Hughes should push us further away from tying up big dollars in aging wingers.

We are not going to compete next year. Very like, we are not going to compete the year after. 3-5 years is the beginning of the new window. We need our cash available for when that time comes, both to ensure we can keep the guys we need to and to sign someone who might become available and is the perfect supplement to an already successful squad.

Above all, I can't wait until Panarin signs with Florida so this convo can die.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

If Panarin wants to sign and it's a reasonable contract (for an elite player) then we gotta do it. I'm fine trading Kreider if it's for the right type of deal, not fine trading him for pure futures, getting Kakko Changes the timetable.

What is a reasonable contract? We are still looking at 9/7 and that would be a pretty big discount.

Panarin is getting double digits.