Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXV

[mas0764]

If I may ask, what is your solution to who plays 2C? Whether it be Strome, Miller, or another UFA, someone will have to be paid to fill in the gap.

Strome and Miller are too much alike. Miller is a little better all-around, but Strome has demonstrated value here working with Panarin and looking like he's gonna work with Kakko. Even with retention on Miller (and Vancouver isn't gonna go for that, and, god help us, I'm not interested in PAYING MORE ASSETS to get someone else to eat salary), there is basically no way to make Strome and Miller work here next year even if Strome is only at like $5.5m. Concluding that I cannot have both long term, I can see that my options are either re-signing Strome for nothing but cap space, or, paying out the ass for Miller, getting one more year at $5.5m for him, and THEN ALSO having to give him a new contract... the same contract that I probably could give Strome this offseason without giving up assets.

Paying Nils/Krav/1st for one playoff run of having both players is nonsense.

If my choice is just those two, then I choose Strome. I don't have to give any assets and I know he works to a degree here. I try like hell to get the NMC protection to something I can get out from easily as well.

But since I'm not parting with Nils/Krav/Chytil/1st/Robertson to buy myself one playoff run of having an extra center around, I'm still shopping.

Frankly, not that this is something that would ever happen, but what I would PERSONALLY do, I'd sell Strome at the deadline regardless. But I'm not an impatient James Dolan and I'm still committed to the PROPER rebuild that was started but never finished. I'm still searching for young centers - probably two of them - and another winger to grow alongSIDE Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil, and maybe Kravtsov. I'm not chasing some run right now just because we have Panarin at his peak. I'm not worried about not winning during Kreider's peak because 20 goal scorers kinda grow on trees. I can get one lots of places including many trade deadlines for a first round pick as the main outgoing asset. What Kreider brings is replicable.

But since the owner is demanding we make an effort to "win now," I'm at least of the opinion that we need to actively be attempting to still grow the young core. I'm not parting with the assets that can get me more bites at the apple for a young center or two. Therefore Strome is the easy, easy choice.

And I'm still shopping for Petterssons.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Wonder what the cost of Garland and Miller would be from the Nucks? Krav, Nils, 1st?

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

There is no way we are going to offer more than what we did for younger Eichel with more term on his contract. No way. Drury would not budge with Eichel. He is going to budge on Miller for 1.25 years of contract term? At 29 years old?

Vancouver fans/media are more delusional than Buffalo. Didn’t think it was possible.

This is a good point

we can all sit here all day and give our own valuations of players, but this is actual evidence that we would never give up that kind of package for a good, but not great player

 

[RangerBoy]

I do not want JT Miller but you bring up Karlsson and honestly, he has fallen off a cliff this season. Not sure why that is but he is not the same as he was. I have serious doubts he will ever be the same while having to have him signed for another 5 years at nearly 6m per till he is 35. Im just not to interested in.

Jeff Marek mentioned Wild Bill yesterday on his podcast. Why wouldn't Vegas look to move a center when Eichel returns? Elliotte Friedman didn't believe Vegas would move him. He didn't say the quiet part. Which team is taking on that contract in this economy?

 

[mas0764]

I seriously doubt we see a Miller sequel. Smoke and mirrors. There are other names that are more interesting and more likely. R. Smith is one. Pavelski another. I heard Drury is very active, doing due diligence everywhere and that he wants to make a big splash, if the right deal is there. Whatever that means…

Call up your contacts and tell them we want a long term young forward, preferably at center. We are willing to pay top dollar.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Miller should automatically be on the "don't ever trade for"- list, for the simple fact we traded him away!

In a bad deal too. So we would rip ourselves off twice in that case ... I hate these kind of streaks the RBT goes on.

 

[mas0764]

I mean, are we going to even be able to sign Strome or Miller, plus Kakko, plus a back up goalie, and 2 or 3 other forwards in the off-season anyway? I think it's 3, other than Kakko.

We have $10.6m to sign 5 forwards and a goalie. This is including Strome and Kakko needing contracts.

It's ridiculously tight.

 

[SA16]

I don't see the comparison for Eichel. At all. Part of the reason they wouldn't want to give stuff up for him is because he was injured, needed a new surgery, and it would have meant they couldn't keep Zibanejad. I could certainly see them offering more for someone else which would not come with those issues. Not saying I agree with it but it's pretty clear what the logic is.

 

[mas0764]

In the interviews after firing Gorton, Dolan himself said he expected the Rangers to be aggressive when star players become available.

Hopefully Dolan isn't too dumb to realize that to chase a star player it would really help to have Nils, Kravtsov, and Chytil to offer.

 

[RangerBoy]

Elliotte Friedman. Jeff Marek podcast. Some western conference teams don't think Dvorak is as bad as he has played this season. Marek said Dvorak would be a good fit in Calgary. Tkachuk and Dvorak played together in the OHL. Montreal gave up a 1st for him. Elliotte said teams believe the Flames will acquire Toffoli. Darryl Sutter Los Angeles connection.

 

[rangers1314]

Friedman today mentions that teams are calling MTL on Dvorak, says a few western teams in particular have called.

Says the flames are very in on Toffoli.

 

[Bondra slapshot]

I saw a Vancouver poster saying he wanted 1st, Schneider, Othmann and Kravtsov for Miller and ALSO a conditional 1st if we reach the Stanley cup finals. That extra conditional, hahaha. I'm surprised he didn't ask for a second conditional pick just for picking up the phone and talking about a trade!

What's with all these funny conditions nowadays?

 

[mas0764]

Lundkvist, Chytil and Kravtsov. What can the Rangers get for those players? Throw in the 2022 first round pick. Too bad Chychrun isn't a center. His contract at $4.6M at three more seasons would fit the Rangers cap.

Lundkvist, Chytil, Kravtsov, and a first brings back an Eichel-level player, even one who DOESN'T want out. Holy hell, Eichel just went to Vegas for Krebs, Tuch, and a first. You are upping the ante by placing a FOURTH prime asset on the table.

If that's our ammo and the return is 18 months of JT Miller it's a horrendous trade for us. Even if we only expend 3 assets.

Just include the fourth asset and then get a star.

This isn't hard. There is precedent for it over, and over, and over.

JT Miller isn't a needle mover. Jack Eichel is.

Wait for the next Eichel.

Our window isn't closing this year. We don't have to spend all our best assets. Buy low, get Reilly Smith, fine.

Save Nils/Krav/Chytil to spend on a true elite player.

 

[effen]

Wouldn't touch Petterson with a 10 foot pole.

 

[mas0764]

Could you imagine if they actually traded Kakko for JT Miller.

Literally hitting CTRL-Z on what Gorton did post-letter. Sends a real shudder down your spine. There's my happy thought of the day.

Consider where they are if they deal Nils, Kravtsov, Chytil, and a first at this deadline and their main return is 18 months of JT Miller. Yes, I have seen some of our own posters suggest these four assets going out the door with nothing long term coming back.

Let me sum it up for you - we are an aging group of forwards that we've seen miss the playoffs or lose in the playoffs time and time again, except plus Laf and Kakko.

That's no where near enough for long term success as Kreider, Zibanejad, and even Panarin begin to decline. And the posters who think this forward group is a Cup winning group are delusional.

 

[mas0764]

Man if we trade Kakko for Miller… lmfao

It would at least end the debate on how big of a moron Drury is.

 

[Crease]

12 months ago I had Kravtsov and Lundkvist firmly contributing this year and beyond. Funny how things can shake out.

 

[mas0764]

There is no way we are going to offer more than what we did for younger Eichel with more term on his contract. No way. Drury would not budge with Eichel. He is going to budge on Miller for 1.25 years of contract term? At 29 years old?

Vancouver fans/media are more delusional than Buffalo. Didn’t think it was possible.

If the offer to Buffalo for Eichel included Nils, Krav, and a first, plus maybe more, and all available information seems to indicate that it very likely was a package of that or similar, then we should absolutely not be putting that same package together for a far inferior player with no term.

 

[mas0764]

I don't see the comparison for Eichel. At all. Part of the reason they wouldn't want to give stuff up for him is because he was injured, needed a new surgery, and it would have meant they couldn't keep Zibanejad. I could certainly see them offering more for someone else which would not come with those issues. Not saying I agree with it but it's pretty clear what the logic is.

It's pretty clear the Rangers would have looked to move someone like Kreider had they acquired Zibanejad. They definitely were chasing the 1-2 punch down the middle long term.

Which was smart of them.

 

[Fitzy]

Comparing Eichel to Miller is a little more complicated than what @mas0764 has presented though.

Eichel had a major injury. Has a lot of term on his contract. Miller has the year and a half but most teams looking to trade for him will likely be doing so with the intention of re-signing him.

For that reason, I'd be surprised if NYR have the highest big for JT Miller, unless they had some sort of elaborate plan to trade Trouba in one year's time to make room for an extension.

The Eichel trade was more comparable to our 2nd trade for Eric Lindros... potentially damaged goods return

 

[mas0764]

Comparing Eichel to Miller is a little more complicated than what @mas0764 has presented though.

Eichel had a major injury. Has a lot of term on his contract. Miller has the year and a half but most teams looking to trade for him will likely be doing so with the intention of re-signing him.

For that reason, I'd be surprised if NYR have the highest big for JT Miller, unless they had some sort of elaborate plan to trade Trouba in one year's time to make room for an extension.

The Eichel trade was more comparable to our 2nd trade for Eric Lindros... potentially damaged goods return

I'm all for moving Trouba to accomodate a young, star center.

But JT Miller isn't that player. He's not young, and he's not really that good. He's ok. He's comparable to Strome.

 

[nyrage]

People always go crazy over ridiculous rumors and the hit rate is probably less than even 1/10th of a percent.

Don't give up any prime assets for anyone that isn't a good young center. Miller isn't it. Maybe add a rental or two with secondary assets.

 

[Zynbanejad]

We're not trading either of them period.

Hope you’re right. You win championships with cost controlled contracts like theirs

 

[CLW]

I saw a Vancouver poster saying he wanted 1st, Schneider, Othmann and Kravtsov for Miller and ALSO a conditional 1st if we reach the Stanley cup finals. That extra conditional, hahaha. I'm surprised he didn't ask for a second conditional pick just for picking up the phone and talking about a trade!

What's with all these funny conditions nowadays?

There must be copious amounts of strong pungent fumes in the Vancouver area afflicting the minds of the locals.

 

[Fitzy]

I'm all for moving Trouba to accomodate a young, star center.

But JT Miller isn't that player. He's not young, and he's not really that good. He's ok. He's comparable to Strome.

I tend to agree.

NYR should be looking to move not only for a better center, but a younger one.

Pettersson is a guy I'd pay a megapackage to get here. That's one trade I'd have K'Andre Miller available in.