Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXV

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yes so I assume it'd be more then a 5th

The whole "0 leverage" thing I see thrown around elsewhere makes no sense to me.

Remember when they had zero leverage in 2016 because Eric Staal only wanted to be traded to the Rangers? Or how Tampa had 0 leverage in 2015 with Martin St Louis for the same reason? I doubt this ever actually drives the price down. If we acquire Fox this year, it would probably be a 1st at least. Which to me, isn't worth it if he wants to sign with us anyway

 

[Drew4u]

The whole "0 leverage" thing I see thrown around elsewhere makes no sense to me.

Remember when they had zero leverage in 2016 because Eric Staal only wanted to be traded to the Rangers? Or how Tampa had 0 leverage in 2015 with Martin St Louis for the same reason? I doubt this ever actually drives the price down. If we acquire Fox this year, it would probably be a 1st at least. Which to me, isn't worth it if he wants to sign with us anyway

Wouldn't even pay a 2nd. Just Wait until 2020 offseason.

 

[bobbop]

So the next three seasons Panarin puts up 90 points, but the Rangers are a sub .500 team who never make the playoffs. After that he begins to decline and he's among the highest salaried players in the league. His signing now hurts future flexibility making it more difficult to win a Championship.

That was a wise signing? I get that you don't want to criticize the player, but how is that a prudent long term strategy?

The way you deal with this is an NMC to eliminate the expansion/Hartford issue and then a 4-5 year NTC followed by a 2-3 LTC. Leave yourself a back door in case the player needs to be moved.

 

[effen]

Getting Fox now if you can is a no brainer. Not reciprocating interest if he really is gung-ho to come here is greedy for no reason. He's the one with the power.

He'd be a 1st rounder if he were draftable so trying to haggle the deal down to a 5th from a 4th or a 3rd is, uh, bad. You wouldn't trade a 3rd for a 1st bc the price is too high? f*** outta here lol.

 

[Mac n Gs]

They are similar players, but I think they're very different people. ADA to me is more instinctive, emotional and a guy who plays best with a heavy chip on his shoulder. Fox is a lot more cerebral, a thinking man's player whose more deceptive and uses his guile. ADA has better hand skills.

I think they'd mesh well on a blueline, but will battle for their ice time.

Fox makes both Pionk and Shatts expendable if he can step in right away.

I’d be fine if he were chosen to replace Pionk, but I don’t trust this team to make that call. Fox is more often than not a brilliant player and can be highly efficient with how he moves the puck. I do think he’ll end up being a good powerplay qb, but we have two clear options in ADA and Shattenkirk who should get the lion’s share of those minutes.

My biggest concern with Fox remains to be if he can overcompensate for his skating with how fast he plays the game. I think he can be a huge liability if there isn’t proper puck support in place for him.

 

[NYR Viper]

I’d be fine if he were chosen to replace Pionk, but I don’t trust this team to make that call. Fox is more often than not a brilliant player and can be highly efficient with how he moves the puck. I do think he’ll end up being a good powerplay qb, but we have two clear options in ADA and Shattenkirk who should get the lion’s share of those minutes.

My biggest concern with Fox remains to be if he can overcompensate for his skating with how fast he plays the game. I think he can be a huge liability if there isn’t proper puck support in place for him.

The easy solution to this is trade Shattenkirk though which would be a smart move anyways. I’d look to deal Pionk as well. Find a big, defensive defenseman for a single year.

I brought up the idea of Bogosian from Buffalo + Picks for Shattenkirk. The Sabres get a large upgrade and Bogo fills a hole for a year on the right side. Salaries are close for next year.

DeAngelo is this teams top-pairing RD. Fox can come in and develop with some limited minutes and if he’s not 100% ready have Hajek play on the right side for the time being opening up a spot for someone like Lindgren or Rykov.

 

[RGY]

No reason to trade a 1st or a 2nd round pick for a kid that can hit free agency after is senior year. He is a completely unproven commodity. You dont trade 1st rounders for something like that.

 

[Trxjw]

I like Fox as a prospect. Plays far more similar in style to Shattenkirk than DeAngelo and makes his living on the PP the same way. RHD are at a premium so having additional guys in the pipeline isn't a bad thing.

That being said, I don't think acquiring him would mean someone is heading out the door immediately. Spending half a season in the AHL wouldn't be a bad thing for him. Additionally, I'd be a little perturbed if the Rangers surrendered a 2nd or higher for him. I think his tires are being pumped a little too much. Not a great skater, has trouble tracking the puck in his own end, and definitely leans heavily on the PP for his production. Far from a blue chip D prospect, IMO.

 

[Barnaby]

Wouldn't even pay a 2nd. Just Wait until 2020 offseason.

You do realize other teams could deal for him right? Do we know it's Rangers or bust? What if the choice is wait a year to sign with the Rangers or a team like Boston will trade for you tomorrow and you'll start next season with them?

 

[Barnaby]

The way you deal with this is an NMC to eliminate the expansion/Hartford issue and then a 4-5 year NTC followed by a 2-3 LTC. Leave yourself a back door in case the player needs to be moved.

That's a possibility... if he would accept it. Who knows. It seems like a lot of clauses are the reverse like Zib or Stepan - clause kicks in after a couple seasons.

I really don't get the point of locking someone up long term at this point. The entire roster is transitioning and they are not even remotely contending in the near future. In three years 2/3 of this roster will probably be gone.

 

[bobbop]

I love Fox but I have a problem simply paying up whatever the price. Think he’s signing with Montreal or Buffalo? In my mind, he’s a late first, early second player. (Most of my exposure to the player was in the WJC, where he was excellent) Nothing wrong with that but I am not giving up that kind of draft capital. I’m guessing Gorton has set his offer, it’s probably a 3rd or a 4th and a player and it’s his best offer. Take it or leave it.

 

[Kovalev27]

I like Fox as a prospect. Plays far more similar in style to Shattenkirk than DeAngelo and makes his living on the PP the same way. RHD are at a premium so having additional guys in the pipeline isn't a bad thing.

That being said, I don't think acquiring him would mean someone is heading out the door immediately. Spending half a season in the AHL wouldn't be a bad thing for him. Additionally, I'd be a little perturbed if the Rangers surrendered a 2nd or higher for him. I think his tires are being pumped a little too much. Not a great skater, has trouble tracking the puck in his own end, and definitely leans heavily on the PP for his production. Far from a blue chip D prospect, IMO.

Agree completely

 

[Barnaby]

No reason to trade a 1st or a 2nd round pick for a kid that can hit free agency after is senior year. He is a completely unproven commodity. You dont trade 1st rounders for something like that.

So you wouldn't trade an unknown commodity for an unknown commodity?

 

[Overcast]

The whole "0 leverage" thing I see thrown around elsewhere makes no sense to me.

Remember when they had zero leverage in 2016 because Eric Staal only wanted to be traded to the Rangers? Or how Tampa had 0 leverage in 2015 with Martin St Louis for the same reason? I doubt this ever actually drives the price down. If we acquire Fox this year, it would probably be a 1st at least. Which to me, isn't worth it if he wants to sign with us anyway

Both Staal and MSL had proven track records (offensive numbers/overall play, both captains, longevity in the league) and Cups to their names. They were known commodities in the league. I'd imagine that's where their value in those trades came from. Carolina doesn't have much to stand on with Fox here.

Regardless, if Fox intends to sign here then there's no point in giving Carolina anything.

 

[RGY]

So you wouldn't trade an unknown commodity for an unknown commodity?

Not when Fox can hit free agency. I value the 1st round pick which will be an 18 year old over the 22 year old who projects to be a top 4 RHD. The same kid that can simple go back for his senior year and then become a free agent.

Bob Mckenzie already said it may take a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Not a 1st. Price may drop if it really comes down to Fox wanting to be a Ranger. If he doesnt agree to sign anywhere else then they run the risk of him walking for nothing

 

[Good Intentions]

The Fox fixation is insane. Not only will he not be a Ranger, but we'll loopback on it in disbelief at the time spent on a marginal NHL player.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

The Fox fixation is insane. Not only will he not be a Ranger, but we'll loopback on it in disbelief at the time spent on a marginal NHL player.

And is Buch still heading back to the KHL as well?

 

[bobbop]

That's a possibility... if he would accept it. Who knows. It seems like a lot of clauses are the reverse like Zib or Stepan - clause kicks in after a couple seasons.

I really don't get the point of locking someone up long term at this point. The entire roster is transitioning and they are not even remotely contending in the near future. In three years 2/3 of this roster will probably be gone.

The difference is that Stepan and Mika both signed contracts when they were 25 and could not get protection until they were 27..

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Fox is a top 5 defense prospect in hockey. No way Carolina will get a first or second. A third or fourth at most.

Secret is out, he wants to play for us. No other team is going to trade for his rights when he’s going to Vesey them.

If what Larry said is true, get the trade done at the draft, sign him and see where he stands at camp. Worst comes to worse he plays in Hartford for a bit

 

[Tob]

It might have taken 4 years but we finally have a way to get even with Carolina for Aleksi Saarela.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Would trade a 3rd in a heartbeat. Fox likely to be better than any player we would take in that round anyway.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The easy solution to this is trade Shattenkirk though which would be a smart move anyways. I’d look to deal Pionk as well. Find a big, defensive defenseman for a single year.

I brought up the idea of Bogosian from Buffalo + Picks for Shattenkirk. The Sabres get a large upgrade and Bogo fills a hole for a year on the right side. Salaries are close for next year.

DeAngelo is this teams top-pairing RD. Fox can come in and develop with some limited minutes and if he’s not 100% ready have Hajek play on the right side for the time being opening up a spot for someone like Lindgren or Rykov.

I don't really see how that fills a need for them when they give the majority of their powerplay minutes to Ristolainen and Dahlin; they also traded for Montour, who gets their second unit minutes. I don't really see the fit there, especially when it results in them taking on salary.

 

[Thirty One]

To NYR:
Adam Fox
2020 7th round pick

To Carolina:
2019 3rd round pick

 

[bobbop]

To NYR:
Adam Fox
2020 7th round pick

To Carolina:
2019 3rd round pick

Own the 2020 7th round!

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

To NYR:
Adam Fox
2020 7th round pick

To Carolina:
2019 3rd round pick

Yes

Very nice

Hope this happens

 

[Good Intentions]

And is Buch still heading back to the KHL as well?

I smell that sarcasm, my friend!

Zherdev banged (3) 23+ goal seasons before he was 25.

I’m selling on Buchnevich this summer with every chip in my stack.