Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXV

[haohmaru]

McKenzie:

Sorry, interesting technicality to clarify ability/inability for Fox to burn a year on ELC. If traded, say, to NYR or any team, he’s not eligible to play. BUT, and this is the longest of long shots, CAR could sign and trade him. Fox signing in CAR would burn 1st year of ELC.

 

[RGY]

Historically the back 9 of these extraordinarily long/lucrative free agent deals become anchors. If this team is not built to contend during his prime then why put yourself in a position to suffer through the last half of the deal. Wouldnt it be more prudent to build a young core, then supplement with a guy in his prime? We also don't know what this future roster will look like. Perhaps there will be a glaring hole at C or D where the money would be better allocated.

In the short term Panarin makes the team more exciting to watch. Long term, it probably hinders you more than it helps you assuming that your goal is a Stanley Cup.

To be fair, the assumption is this team’s young talent wont develop for several years thus not being built to compete during Panarin’s prime years. But that is only an assumption. Of course its a risk, but my view is banking on Chytil and Howden being affective players in year 2 of Panarin’s contract. That would be their 3rd full season. That could be Lias and Kravtsov 2nd full season. Could be the rookie year of the kid we take this year, maybe the 2nd year if we get lucky and its Hughes/Kakko. And that isnt even considering Zibanejad and Buchnevich’s continued progression. Maybe Kreider is still here. It also isnt considering the continued development of ADA along with Hajek establishing himself, one or two of Lindgren, Rykov, Reunanen, Day, Keane making a push. Lundkvist and Miller not far behind.

I am optimistic about the collection of young talent we have accumulated, more than others here. And i see the value in adding Panarin to that collection. A collection that does not include this year’s draft class yet.

 

[RGY]

McKenzie:

Sorry, interesting technicality to clarify ability/inability for Fox to burn a year on ELC. If traded, say, to NYR or any team, he’s not eligible to play. BUT, and this is the longest of long shots, CAR could sign and trade him. Fox signing in CAR would burn 1st year of ELC.

So why would a team want to make that trade? In essence you are signing him to screw the acquiring team. So then shouldnt the price drop to a later round pick?

Some of these rules are ridiculous

 

[Barnaby]

That's the problem with some of these discussions, it's totally subjective. I personally wouldn't consider that to be a failure of a signing. I'd prefer to look solely at the contribution of the player.

So the next three seasons Panarin puts up 90 points, but the Rangers are a sub .500 team who never make the playoffs. After that he begins to decline and he's among the highest salaried players in the league. His signing now hurts future flexibility making it more difficult to win a Championship.

That was a wise signing? I get that you don't want to criticize the player, but how is that a prudent long term strategy?

 

[duhmetreE]

There is that whole line about those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

What elite players have we signed?

 

[Barnaby]

To be fair, the assumption is this team’s young talent wont develop for several years thus not being built to compete during Panarin’s prime years. But that is only an assumption. Of course its a risk, but my view is banking on Chytil and Howden being affective players in year 2 of Panarin’s contract. That would be their 3rd full season. That could be Lias and Kravtsov 2nd full season. Could be the rookie year of the kid we take this year, maybe the 2nd year if we get lucky and its Hughes/Kakko. And that isnt even considering Zibanejad and Buchnevich’s continued progression. Maybe Kreider is still here. It also isnt considering the continued development of ADA along with Hajek establishing himself, one or two of Lindgren, Rykov, Reunanen, Day, Keane making a push. Lundkvist and Miller not far behind.

I am optimistic about the collection of young talent we have accumulated, more than others here. And i see the value in adding Panarin to that collection. A collection that does not include this year’s draft class yet.

I am optimistic about this group of talent, but my time frame isn't on par with yours. I think you are assuming a lot of thinks go right, and many of these young guys are contributors sooner rather than later. Certainly not an impossibility, but I'd have to say it's a lot less likely in my opinion. 2019 draft hasn't happened yet, and I think they are aiming high in the 2020 draft as well.

 

[RGY]

What elite players have we signed?

Really not sure who was elite that we signed in the past 20 years. We may have signed mediocre players and overpaid for them in the process but really no one that was elite. Theo Fleury was once elite but we signed him at 31 and to be fair he was not far off from producing at a ppg rate. But who was elite like Panarin is and/or at his age? Holik was 33. Kamensky 32. Robitaille was 29 and was decent in his 1st year, 2nd year mediocre. Lindros was a trade. Drury and Gomez were not elite players either. Richards was 31 when we signed him, we were in desperate need of a Center and help on the PP. We went to two ECFs and the SCF with him.

Gaborik. Signed at 27. He had two 40 goal seasons. Was just under a ppg in production during his first three years. His 4th year, the lockout shortened season, we added Nash and things just didnt workout that season. Fired Torts after the season. Gaborik traded at the deadline.

What elite player have we signed that was a past mistake we need to learn from?

 

[Tob]

Always preferred Falco. Much more nimble.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Always preferred Falco. Much more nimble.

Overrated artist in my opinion.

 

[haohmaru]

So why would a team want to make that trade? In essence you are signing him to screw the acquiring team. So then shouldnt the price drop to a later round pick?

Some of these rules are ridiculous

Here it would be used/done solely to benefit the player and, presumably, entice him to sign and trade.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Overrated artist in my opinion.

It was a Nintendo joke. Shame on you.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Overrated artist in my opinion.

smash bros you nerd

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Fox wouldn’t burn ELC if he was traded to us before Saturday per Larry

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Fox wouldn’t burn ELC if he was traded to us before per Larry

That last sentence is wrong as well. He can still sign without reaching UFA after playing out his senior year.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

That last sentence is wrong as well. He can still sign without reaching UFA after playing out his senior year.

Think hes just saying hell be a ufa next summer if the canes didnt trade him but he worded it poorly

 

[Leetch3]

just wait and sign him next year. nice asset to get for free but why give up something if he wants to sign here anyway

 

[Irishguy42]

That last sentence is wrong as well. He can still sign without reaching UFA after playing out his senior year.

There is nothing in that sentence that is saying he can't be signed without reaching UFA if he plays his senior year. Larry is not wrong here.

Worded kinda weirdly, sure.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

There is nothing in that sentence that is saying he can't be signed without reaching UFA if he plays his senior year. Larry is not wrong here.

Worded kinda weirdly, sure.

Misread what he meant then. He needs to work on his wording. He writes like a 12-year old

 

[Vitto79]

So give up what for Fox? Like a 5th? Carolina can’t have any leverage

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

So give up what for Fox? Like a 5th? Carolina can’t have any leverage

I’d give up a third or Tampa’s second if it actually ends up being a second at most

 

[FireGerardGallant]

So give up what for Fox? Like a 5th? Carolina can’t have any leverage

Nashville traded Vesey's rights for a 3rd. Id assume it'd be similar

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Nashville traded Vesey's rights for a 3rd. Id assume it'd be similar

That was months before he would hit UFA status, not a full year

 

[wafflepadsave]

There was a commercial where an old lady is wondering where the beef is. There is no beef. That's what signing Panarin would be, because he's a slight build. He's not beefy. Lacks beef. He wouldn't be able to live up to his contract and we'd be left wondering where in fact the beef is.

Smart lady, that "Where's the Beef Lady" is.

That’s a Extremely old commercial. Not many here have seen it.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

That was months before he would hit UFA status, not a full year

Yes so I assume it'd be more then a 5th

 

[Mikos87]

I’m still iffy on the impact Fox will have at the next level. He plays well with Fox when they suit up for the US, but I don’t think they’ll be able to translate that success to a faster level. I thought Lindgren looked pretty bad all season, and he was clearly overmatched in his short stint with us.

My only issue would be if they prioritize Fox over ADA when ADA is clearly the superior player.

They are similar players, but I think they're very different people. ADA to me is more instinctive, emotional and a guy who plays best with a heavy chip on his shoulder. Fox is a lot more cerebral, a thinking man's player whose more deceptive and uses his guile. ADA has better hand skills.

I think they'd mesh well on a blueline, but will battle for their ice time.

Fox makes both Pionk and Shatts expendable if he can step in right away.