Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXV

[Ola]

I'm confused, how can Fox be traded here after the deadline?

There is actually not a ban on trades right now, but we could of course not acquire him and play him in the NHL right now. It would be for next season.

But does a signing with Carolina really burn a year if he does not play for them??

 

[Ola]

Wait, so you can make a trade post the deadline and play someone you get during the regular season?

And does that add up with the roster thing? Are we sure Fox wouldn’t have to pass through waivers to play for us this year?

 

[Thirty One]

Wait, so you can make a trade post the deadline and play someone you get during the regular season??

I believe so, yes.

 

[Ola]

I believe so, yes.

Cool.

 

[17futurecap]

Wait, so you can make a trade post the deadline and play someone you get during the regular season?

And does that add up with the roster thing? Are we sure Fox wouldn’t have to pass through waivers to play for us this year?

 

[Thirty One]

Cool.

I guess McKenzie is saying you can't. It's always been my understanding that you can trade whenever, you just can't put the players you acquire after the deadline in the playoffs.

 

[haohmaru]

Wait, so you can make a trade post the deadline and play someone you get during the regular season?

And does that add up with the roster thing? Are we sure Fox wouldn’t have to pass through waivers to play for us this year?

I don’t think so. He’d have to sign with Carolina to burn a year. Us trading for him and he wouldn’t be eligible to burn a year or play for us.

 

[Ola]

I guess McKenzie is saying you can't. It's always been my understanding that you can trade whenever, you just can't put the players you acquire after the deadline in the playoffs.

We could still get him, which is all that matters. A game would be good, but not the end of the world.

 

[Thirty One]

I don't really want to trade any of the seconds either because they are either a top 40 pick or a conditional 1st.

It's like that Mentos commercial where...

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I guess McKenzie is saying you can't. It's always been my understanding that you can trade whenever, you just can't put the players you acquire after the deadline in the playoffs.

I had this thought in my head too

Weird

 

[Mac n Gs]

I’m still iffy on the impact Fox will have at the next level. He plays well with Fox when they suit up for the US, but I don’t think they’ll be able to translate that success to a faster level. I thought Lindgren looked pretty bad all season, and he was clearly overmatched in his short stint with us.

My only issue would be if they prioritize Fox over ADA when ADA is clearly the superior player.

 

[Ola]

I don't really want to trade any of the seconds either because they are either a top 40 pick or a conditional 1st.

It's like that Mentos commercial where...

We should have ammo to get it done, Lindgren? Rykov? Reunanen?

 

[Thirty One]

I had this thought in my head too

Weird

I can't remember when, but there was a situation where a team's goaltending just got depleted late in the season when they were on the brink of the playoffs, and there was some speculation that they would trade for a goalie just for one game. Maybe it was the start of Wade Dubielewicz's NHL career? That was a different CBA.

 

[eco's bones]

Unsigned college players don't have much value. Vesey is a legitimate 3rd line player in his mid-20s and Pionk is a 2nd pairing D, at worst a 3rd pairing D, in his mid-20s.

Fox has less value than Pionk.

If Fox wants to play for the Rangers (and I believe he grew up a Rangers fan) all he has to do is wait for Aug. 2020 to come around. It's the same way we got Hayes and Vesey and we didn't give up a thing for either. We're not going to be trading Pionk or Vesey for Fox. If Fox has made it clear to Carolina that he's not going to sign with them--they're between a rock and a hard place and if other teams have wind that he intends to sign with the Rangers what would be the point of trading for his rights?--which would put Carolina between an even harder rock and an even harder hard place. If Carolina wants to deal with us for a player we can just wait for I would not give them anything unless I could sign him right away for the 19-20 season and in that case I don't think I'd give them more than a 3rd. Just saying. This shit that we've got to turn this into some big deal trade doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Ola]

I can't remember when, but there was a situation where a team's goaltending just got depleted late in the season when they were on the brink of the playoffs, and there was some speculation that they would trade for a goalie just for one game. Maybe it was the start of Wade Dubielewicz's NHL career? That was a different CBA.

Yeah, after you guys pointed it out it sounds familiar.

 

[BringBackLibertys]

We should have ammo to get it done, Lindgren? Rykov? Reunanen?

what???? At most I give a 3rd in this draft, at most. We can wait until he is UFA if that doesn't work.

 

[Ola]

Just remembered that we have Joey Keane too.

A while ago we had no RHS that even remotely could play on the PP. TDA/Fox/Pionk in the NHL and Lundkvist/Keane in the system would be pretty sick.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If Fox wants to play for the Rangers (and I believe he grew up a Rangers fan) all he has to do is wait for Aug. 2020 to come around. It's the same way we got Hayes and Vesey and we didn't give up a thing for either. We're not going to be trading Pionk or Vesey for Fox. If Fox has made it clear to Carolina that he's not going to sign with them--they're between a rock and a hard place and if other teams have wind that he intends to sign with the Rangers what would be the point of trading for his rights?--which would put Carolina between an even harder rock and an even harder hard place. If Carolina wants to deal with us for a player we can just wait for I would not give them anything unless I could sign him right away for the 19-20 season and in that case I don't think I'd give them more than a 3rd. Just saying. This **** that we've got to turn this into some big deal trade doesn't make sense to me.

The Rangers might not want him to make it that far if they think he’ll sign now. If Carolina will trade him I see the Rangers making the effort to acquire him.

 

[Thirty One]

If Fox wants to play for the Rangers (and I believe he grew up a Rangers fan) all he has to do is wait for Aug. 2020 to come around.

Sure, but that that does involve a 21 year old deferring making $800,000 more than a year. Not saying he can't wait, but there has to be some motivation to get it done now.

 

[NYRKING30]

Carolina doesn't have leverage here, I don't think it would take much on our end.

 

[17futurecap]

Give up the 4th and 7th from Columbus, and pretend the original McQuaid trade never happened.

 

[Thirty One]

So I think he would be eligible for a 2 year ELC if he signed in August 2020 and a 3 year if he signed now, right?

 

[Ola]

The Rangers might not want him to make it that far if they think he’ll sign now. If Carolina will trade him I see the Rangers making the effort to acquire him.

If you knew 200% he would be coming here, but can you count on that?

Fox will need a guarantee to play to sign. It’s problemaric to have to wait until Aug 16 before you know if you will add a defender that must play.

 

[aufheben]

When his play drop off. Will he put up the numbers to make his contract worth it when he plays for what will be the worst team he’s ever been on? Are two big ones for me

Edit: also the Rangers will never be able to trade him, because if he signs here, it’ll come with a NMC and with the reason being for location rather than chance to win

The individual risks are the same as any late-20s UFA. When will he decline?

Any long-term UFA contract, you have to expect that you're only really getting full value out of the first half of it. With that in mind, the risk is that he declines before he reaches that half-way point (like Richards did).

Right but that doesn't inherently have a negative effect on the organization, other than the simple fact of one of it's players becoming worse. What if you have an overpaid player but nonetheless have tons of cap space? Shit the Coyotes would call that a good thing. I guess what I mean is, what are the actual problems that signing Panarin could create? Again I'm not saying there aren't plenty of ways, but stuff like "would be a waste" or "not worth it"... who is it a waste for?

 

[Tawnos]

No. Because the two of them combined aren't getting a 1st in a million years, let alone as part of a package that includes a prospect already.

It would likely be Vesey+Pionk for Fox+3rd or 4th. Addition of Vesey might even get them a 2nd if their GM is bad.

I wouldn't make that trade.

Seriously undervaluing guys on our team. Vesey is a legitimate middle-6 player. He's not worth less than a prospect without a contract. Pionk isn't either.

In a similar situation, Vesey's rights were traded for a 3rd round pick. Fox might be a better prospect, but I'd be surprised if it was more than equivalent value to a 2nd.