Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXV

[Tawnos]

Right but that doesn't inherently have a negative effect on the organization, other than the simple fact of one of it's players becoming worse. What if you have an overpaid player but nonetheless have tons of cap space? **** the Coyotes would call that a good thing. I guess what I mean is, what are the actual problems that signing Panarin could create? Again I'm not saying there aren't plenty of ways, but stuff like "It would be a waste" ... a waste for who?

There are only two possible problems signing Panarin could create, as I see it. One depends on your stance on the draft order, which is that he might give the Rangers a few more wins next season and lower their draft pick. If you don't consider that a big deal (and I don't), then it's a non-issue.

The other, which ties into the fundamental risk, is all about timing. Let's say they sign him for 7 years and let's say that the team the Rangers build through the draft and the youth movement starts to contend 4-5 years from now. If Panarin nose-dives 4 years from now, we've got an albatross contract on our hands right when we might be looking for the "final piece." That's the biggest problem signing him to this deal could cause. It's more that he might fade out of the role we want him for and simultaneously prevent us from finding someone to fill that role. This is the thing I keep going back and forth on.

That being said, even a diminished, but still effective player who is overpaid could contribute solidly to a Cup. Think Hossa.

 

[aufheben]

There are only two possible problems signing Panarin could create, as I see it. One depends on your stance on the draft order, which is that he might give the Rangers a few more wins next season and lower their draft pick. If you don't consider that a big deal (and I don't), then it's a non-issue.

The other, which ties into the fundamental risk, is all about timing. Let's say they sign him for 7 years and let's say that the team the Rangers build through the draft and the youth movement starts to contend 4-5 years from now. If Panarin nose-dives 4 years from now, we've got an albatross contract on our hands right when we might be looking for the "final piece." That's the biggest problem signing him to this deal could cause. It's more that he might fade out of the role we want him for and simultaneously prevent us from finding someone to fill that role. This is the thing I keep going back and forth on.

That being said, even a diminished, but still effective player who is overpaid could contribute solidly to a Cup. Think Hossa.

Neither do I, which I suppose is why I'm asking ... separating the adverse from the flimsy.

 

[eco's bones]

Sure, but that that does involve a 21 year old deferring making $800,000 more than a year. Not saying he can't wait, but there has to be some motivation to get it done now.

He wouldn't be the first guy that decided to play out his 4 years instead of coming out early. A lot of people get caught up in the school thing and Harvard is an elite school--not many people have an opportunity to go there. Is it worth $800,000 +--it might be to him. This is precisely by the way why I wouldn't be disappointed if Barron was to sign with us now and why if does play his junior year I don't want him going back to Cornell for his senior year.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

My only issue would be if they prioritize Fox over ADA when ADA is clearly the superior player.

We're now using senseless hypotheticals to trump the kid up? He's finally becoming good. This board collectively has him down as the next Bobby Orr. If he reverts to sucking, we'll still be discussing his potential.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

We're now using senseless hypotheticals to trump the kid up? He's finally becoming good. This board collectively has him down as the next Bobby Orr. If he reverts to sucking, we'll still be discussing his potential.

Defenseman “finally” becomes good at 22, took him long enough!

Ridiculous post.

 

[eco's bones]

The Rangers might not want him to make it that far if they think he’ll sign now. If Carolina will trade him I see the Rangers making the effort to acquire him.

I think that's all possible but Carolina IMO would still be in a much weaker position here. The Rangers would have leverage and they should use it. I don't think the Rangers are going to give them a roster player of any note and not one of their top prospects or anything approaching a 1st rounder. I get that a lot of people don't like Pionk but he's averaged over 20 minutes a night. They're not trading him and they're not trading Vesey who currently is their 4th highest scoring forward and on a fair contract. If they decide to trade those players they're going to try to maximize the return and I think they value both over Fox right now.

 

[eco's bones]

There are only two possible problems signing Panarin could create, as I see it. One depends on your stance on the draft order, which is that he might give the Rangers a few more wins next season and lower their draft pick. If you don't consider that a big deal (and I don't), then it's a non-issue.

The other, which ties into the fundamental risk, is all about timing. Let's say they sign him for 7 years and let's say that the team the Rangers build through the draft and the youth movement starts to contend 4-5 years from now. If Panarin nose-dives 4 years from now, we've got an albatross contract on our hands right when we might be looking for the "final piece." That's the biggest problem signing him to this deal could cause. It's more that he might fade out of the role we want him for and simultaneously prevent us from finding someone to fill that role. This is the thing I keep going back and forth on.

That being said, even a diminished, but still effective player who is overpaid could contribute solidly to a Cup. Think Hossa.

The one caveat I have to this is that it's likely that many of those young players will either be working off their ELC's or beginning their second contracts and won't be making a whole lot of money. It's usually the 3rd or 4th contracts that are the big ones. It's pretty much why I'm not all that concerned about us signing this guy or that for long term and big $'s apart from the guy just not being worth his cap hit after his decline begins. Henrik, Smith, Staal and Shatty are all coming off the books two year from now and who knows whether Kreider will be around. We might have to sign some expensive players just to hit the cap floor.

 

[Thirty One]

Why would the Rangers want to trade Vesey? He had a point in March. Trade someone who DIDN'T have a point in March.

 

[leetch99]

We're now using senseless hypotheticals to trump the kid up? He's finally becoming good. This board collectively has him down as the next Bobby Orr. If he reverts to sucking, we'll still be discussing his potential.

Did we not sign a guy like that a few years ago from US college ? I think he ended up bouncing around ...maybe had an eye injury...memory failing me LOL...

 

[Thirty One]

Did we not sign a guy like that a few years ago from US college ? I think he ended up bouncing around ...maybe had an eye injury...memory failing me LOL...

Matt "best forechecking defenseman in the league" Gilroy?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not possible.

Technically, we could. We have to trade for him, sign him and play him this week for that to work.

Despite the "trade deadline" term, it doesn't mean trades are no longer allowed. Players just have to be on a team's reserve list or roster on deadline day to be eligible for the play offs. Since we are not making the play offs, it doesn't matter

 

[RGY]

Love the people that claim the Rangers wont be competitive for several years. I would love to have that crystal ball.

Rangers trade for Fox who is ready to play NHL games right now. I wouldnt offer more than a 3rd rounder for him and even that is high imo for a kid who likely would want to sign here anyway.

He has experience playing with Lindgren, correct?

Lets see what happens with the draft lottery. If they somehow jump and can draft Hughes/Kakko it can change everything. Could change their offseason plan.

 

[Thirty One]

Sorry, but we need to do this again.

If he signs and burns the first year of his ELC, expansion draft eligible?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Sorry, but we need to do this again.

If he signs and burns the first year of his ELC, expansion draft eligible?

he would have to play a game this season to be eligible

 

[eco's bones]

Why would the Rangers want to trade Vesey? He had a point in March. Trade someone who DIDN'T have a point in March.

Vesey is making $2.275 mil next year. He ain't breaking the bank and there ain't anyone in Hartford right now going to produce more. If he puts up similar production next year he'll probably get us a 2nd at the deadline. Kind of a younger guy still---he goes through long droughts but he's a 30 to 35 point guy who would be a good depth addition for a playoff bound team. I get that he's frustrating as f*** but there is value in that and value in that he has diversified his game a bit--for example he's now a penalty killer. Back in the 90's Chicago probably looked at both Noonan and Matteau pretty much the same way. Take a look at Matteau's stats with the Rangers--not all that hot for a 3rd liner in a lot higher scoring era. He did get that clutch goal.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Likely a draft day deal for Fox.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

But we NEED him for the final 3 games. This is BS by the league!!!

 

[haohmaru]

Technically, we could. We have to trade for him, sign him and play him this week for that to work.

Despite the "trade deadline" term, it doesn't mean trades are no longer allowed. Players just have to be on a team's reserve list or roster on deadline day to be eligible for the play offs. Since we are not making the play offs, it doesn't matter

I don't think this is accurate. Carolina could sign him and he could play for Carolina. I don't think the Rangers could trade for him, sign him, and play him. I think they can trade for his rights etc... but he wouldn't be eligible to play this season or the playoffs.

McKenzie:

As it was explained to me, and my head now hurts, the only way Fox can burn a year of ELC this season would be to sign in CAR because he’s on CAR reserve list. Doesn’t need to play a game to burn it. Could then be traded to NYR but not eligible to play games this season.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Trade a 4th to Carolina for Fox and be done with it

He wants to be here, don’t wait the year

 

[Barnaby]

In what way are past signings linked to potential future signings?

There is that whole line about those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Thirty One]

Vesey is making $2.275 mil next year. He ain't breaking the bank and there ain't anyone in Hartford right now going to produce more. If he puts up similar production next year he'll probably get us a 2nd at the deadline. Kind of a younger guy still---he goes through long droughts but he's a 30 to 35 point guy who would be a good depth addition for a playoff bound team. I get that he's frustrating as **** but there is value in that and value in that he has diversified his game a bit--for example he's now a penalty killer. Back in the 90's Chicago probably looked at both Noonan and Matteau pretty much the same way. Take a look at Matteau's stats with the Rangers--not all that hot for a 3rd liner in a lot higher scoring era. He did get that clutch goal.

1. Hard time seeing him getting a 2nd. I think all the players who got a 2nd or more at the deadline this year were either a lot better than him or have the reputation of being playoff performers.
2. I would trade a late second for Fox, anyways.
3. His salary may not be prohibitive, but there's definitely things I'd rather do with his roster spot.
4. Not sure how Matteau relates at all.

 

[Barnaby]

Who is Tiffany Haddish and why is Groupon throwing my money in the pool?

 

[NYRKING30]

Technically, we could. We have to trade for him, sign him and play him this week for that to work.

Despite the "trade deadline" term, it doesn't mean trades are no longer allowed. Players just have to be on a team's reserve list or roster on deadline day to be eligible for the play offs. Since we are not making the play offs, it doesn't matter

Yeah it was explained to me, I was just surprised to hear that since I don't recall it ever happening from what I remember. Thought the deadline was the deadline, but apparently its like MLB.

 

[RangerBoy]

With Harvard defenseman Adam Fox balking at signing an entry-level contract with the Carolina Hurricanes, team owner Tom Dundon said Monday the Canes are looking at another option.

“We’ll try to trade him,” Dundon said. “I think we’ll do OK. We’ll see.”

 

[Barnaby]

Elite player like Panarin becomes available who will not cost you assets to acquire. But dont sign him because there is a risk that he may not “workout”.

Historically the back 9 of these extraordinarily long/lucrative free agent deals become anchors. If this team is not built to contend during his prime then why put yourself in a position to suffer through the last half of the deal. Wouldnt it be more prudent to build a young core, then supplement with a guy in his prime? We also don't know what this future roster will look like. Perhaps there will be a glaring hole at C or D where the money would be better allocated.

In the short term Panarin makes the team more exciting to watch. Long term, it probably hinders you more than it helps you assuming that your goal is a Stanley Cup.