Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXIV

[The Crypto Guy]

If the Rangers do trade Lindgren, they are doing it to clear cap space to pay their other guys. Defensemen are valuable in the trade market. Lindgren will have another year remaining on his contract at $3M and will have another season of group II before he reaches group III. The Rangers will replace Lindgren with a player on an ELC making $800,000 and that would be Robertson or unless the Rangers swap Lundkvist for a similar LHD. The cap for next season is easier to figure out than the cap for 23-24. The nearly $3.4M in buyout money will go away in 23-24. Any Lindgren trade will be in 23-24. The cap should increase again to $83.5M.

It looks like Lafreniere has figured it out and he is more comfortable on the left side. He could hit his performance bonuses next season and the Rangers will most likely not have the room in the 22-23 cap for those bonuses. Some of the 23-24 cap could be used to pay the bonus money. Playing left wing is more natural for Lafreniere.

Five thoughts on the Rangers: Mika Zibanejad and Chris Kreider click

Here are some quick thoughts from New York's 5-1 win as the Rangers go into the weekend on a high note.

theathletic.com

Kreider-Zibanejad
Panarin-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil

KAM will have no leverage. The Rangers could force him to play at his QO number. That guy is getting better and better. That will be hard to do. If the cap is flat for just two more seasons, the Rangers can go one season with Miller and give him a bigger deal after 23-24 when the cap increases by more than $1M and the Rangers could move out some money with Kreider and/or Trouba when both of the NMC's become limited NTC's to 15 teams. A 15 team no trade list. We know seven of them will be the Canadian teams.

It would be nice to get Kakko signed to an affordable two year bridge. If Kakko figures it out next season and he is a group II again w/arb rights next summer, it will be difficult with Lafreniere also a group II.

The Rangers can hardball Jones for his 2nd contract. I like Jones. Maybe he grow into a Torey Krug type of D man. The Rangers will need his contract for their cap next season. If the Rangers plan on trading Lindgren for more space, Robertson needs to play next season at some point in NY. His $797,500 through 23-24 is valuable. Lindgren played the majority of his first professional season in the AHL. Lindgren played 5 games in NY that year. He played 60 games in NY in his 2nd pro season. Nine games in the AHL.

Chytil's contract is up after 22-23. If Lafreniere and Chytil continue to have success playing well together, the Rangers need to sign Chytil.

Lindgren is going nowhere.

 

[GAGLine]

Prospects are prospects until proven otherwise, have we not learned this the hard way?. Lets see any of those guys play a single game before we anoint them. Does Larkin want to stick around waiting for Detroit to become a contender or go try to win a Cup with his college buddies before he hits the open market? We'll see in the summer.

We'd have the same issue with Larkin as with a player like JT Miller. His contract is up in 1 year and we likely won't have the cap space to re-sign him. Larkin already has a 6.1 mil cap hit (making 6.75 mil this year and 5.25 mil next year in actual cash). He's scoring a point per game on a mediocre team. Will his next contract start with an 8?

 

[GAGLine]

Lindgren is going nowhere.

The only way I see him being moved is if we trade for Chychrun, though if we can get rid of Nemeth, that clears nearly as much cap space. Chychrun, Miller and Lindgren down the left side and Fox, Trouba and Schneider down the right? That's a very solid d-core, maybe the best in the league.

 

[RangerBoy]

How are the Rangers paying Miller and Larkin in their next contracts? Vancouver will keep Hornet. They can't trade everyone. They will trade Miller and Boeser. Maybe they trade Garland if they can. Teams were scared off by the remaining 4 years on his contract. ROR? The Rangers missed that opportunity in 2013 when the Avalanche couldn't sign him. They talked to the Rangers and other teams about trading ROR.

Brooks has a fetish Miller. The Rangers have room for another $8.5M center? No. That dude is not really a center. Marek had Thomas Drance of The Athletic on his show last Friday. They were discussing the Canucks situation. Drance said Miller's best position is wing because he is bad defensively. Larkin will get $8M plus. The Rangers have room for him? No.

Where are the Rangers finding another center? It's the same recycled names. I heard Vince Mercogliano's podcast last Thursday. He had Scott Bullick of the Winnipeg Sun on his podcast to discuss Andrew Copp. He said Copp will cost $5M. They also discussed Mark Scheifele. The Winnipeg reporter spent ten minutes discussing everything wrong with Scheifele. He says Winnipeg will want a lot for Scheifele. A roster player plus other assets. Why would any team give up that package for a player in decline? Bullock spends 10 minutes providing a laundry list of everything wrong with Scheifele but the Jets will want every asset available because he is a #1 center.

Jeff Marek had on Sean Reynolds of Sportsnet who covers the Jets on his show last Thursday. He said the fans and media are ready to move on from Scheifele and some of the other players but the owner and GM may not agree with that opinion. The GM still believes in the group. Reynolds also discussed Scheifele's issues and his bad defensive play. Reynolds believes the Jets will hire a new coach with a different philosophy and try to win in the final two seasons of Scheifele's, Wheeler's and Hellebucyk's contracts. They have played Paul Maurice hockey for a long time. The interim coach Dave Lowry has kept the same systems and style in place. The ownership and management groups want this group of players to succeed.

Where are the Rangers finding their center? There is no match with Vancouver. They want Schneider. JT Miller will be a group III free agent in 2023. He wants a big contract. He won't have the same role in NY which he has in Vancouver. Everything runs through Miller in Vancouver. Vancouver gave him the opportunity which the Rangers never did. His usage rate for Vancouver is off the charts. That usage will not be available in NY.

The Rangers can't afford another high priced center. Do the Rangers really need that type of player? The Rangers will put that player on the first PP unit with Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider and Fox. There is no room for Lafreniere or Kakko. The opportunities are not available to them on the PP. Why don't the Rangers just trade Lafreniere and Kakko for a package of two way players because they have no clue on how to develop them? People ask what's wrong with those two players. Nothing is wrong. The Rangers are what is wrong with them.

 

[RangerBoy]

Lindgren is going nowhere.

Not this season.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Not this season.

I don't think he should be going anywhere anytime soon, next season either. Get rid of that garbage Nemeth contract in the offseason somehow. Lingren is on a very friendly contract and will likely continue to be on his next contract. We get rid of him all we will be doing is trying to obtain the same type of player he is at every trade deadline.

 

[McRanger92]

We'd have the same issue with Larkin as with a player like JT Miller. His contract is up in 1 year and we likely won't have the cap space to re-sign him. Larkin already has a 6.1 mil cap hit (making 6.75 mil this year and 5.25 mil next year in actual cash). He's scoring a point per game on a mediocre team. Will his next contract start with an 8?

1 year rental. JT Miller is in the same category. I know we all want a sub-25 year old center signed to an affordable long term contract, with minimal acquisition cost, but we need to be realistic. The window to win is open now, the Rangers didn't take a big swing at the deadline this year, but its only going to become more likely if they win a round or 2 this year. Panarin/Kreider/Mika aren't getting any younger and Laf, Key & Kakko wont be making sub 5 mil AAV for much longer.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

1 year rental. JT Miller is in the same category. I know we all want a sub-25 year old center signed to an affordable long term contract, with minimal acquisition cost, but we need to be realistic. The window to win is open now, the Rangers didn't take a big swing at the deadline this year, but its only going to become more likely if they win a round or 2 this year. Panarin/Kreider/Mika aren't getting any younger and Laf, Key & Kakko wont be making sub 5 mil AAV for much longer.

I don't think that is the case. I think we are very willing to trade away some of our top assests for a sub 25 year old good center.

Pretty much everything but Othmann and Schenider should be available for trade.

I'll trade a 1st, Lundvist, Kravstov, Cuylle etc for that player.

 

[JimmyG89]

So, they've got 13.5M in cap space with the cap going up 1M. That number is their current space + Brodzinski being in the minors (which should be the goal).

If Copp is at 5.5M, that leaves 8M for the rest of the roster. Blais and Kakko are the only other RFAs that are coming back. Blais is probably at his same number (1.5M). Kakko gets the Chytil extension (2.3M)? Could he get the Lindgren deal (3x3)? Anything longer that probably gets closer to Copp since his agent is going to expect increased production. I'm going with the Chytil deal if I can because after the rest of the deals needed, it is what keeps the rest of the roster the same.

You've then got 11 forwards signed, 6 defenders, and 1 goalie

Leaves 4.2M left for the rest of the roster. So you need 2 forwards, a goalie, and an extra defender. Jones/Nils/Robertson can be the 7th defender on the roster (not necessarily on the depth chart). Goalie will be a UFA that is going to be around 1M. So 2.2M for two forwards. Motte becomes too much I think. Rooney can probably come back at his same number (750K).

If Drury can just get rid of Nemeth and his cap hit entirely, it makes the offseason much easier to build a roster. It is his worst move. If there is a team willing to take him on, I'd attach what is needed to him. An extra 2.5M in cap space would allow them to have some space in season and possibly bring someone like Motte back.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't think that is the case. I think we are very willing to trade away some of our top assests for a sub 25 year old good center.

Pretty much everything but Othmann and Schenider should be available for trade.

I'll trade a 1st, Lundvist, Kravstov, Cuylle etc for that player.

I have no doubt they would if they could but who is out there? Other teams dont trade those players, especially not for a package of our redundant assets. Its why you're seeing Larry write about Scheifele/Miller/Horvat/Larkin. The package you mentioned gets a guy like that, not Quinton Byfield or Dylan Cozens.

This is my issue with everyone saying the Rangers SHOULD do this. Eichel fit that mold but a lot of things had to break right for him to be available and even then it didn't happen for the Rangers. At the end of the day Drury has to take what the market gives him, and the longer Lundkvist/Kravtsov/etc. sit idle, their value goes down.

My opinion? Sign Copp for 2C and dont overthink it. Try to run it back with the same team and rely on internal improvement (Laf/KAM and dare I say Chytil looking like actual players now is a good sign). If you can get one of the aforementioned players (Miller/Larkin/etc.) at 50% retained for a package around a 1st+Nils+a couple decent adds, you do it. Even if you're not sure you can extend the player after the season. Fortune favors the bold and the Rangers will be in a position where they can afford to be bold this summer.

 

[Anthony5967]

A big reason Laf and Chytil are starting to look better is due to being placed in a lineup with much more depth and balance. The fourth line works extremely hard and wears down the opposition on the forecheck, while the top-6 brings the skill and finesse. Not to mention Mika and Chris's power games and physicality. Those two on the third line have much more time and space..and CONFIDENCE than they have had all season. I just hope Laf continues to play 15 mins PLUS.

 

[bl02]

Don't get me wrong I like Copp and he has fit in really nicely so far but I would still try to get him at 5 or under and no more than 4 years. We aren't even sure he can handle a full year at 2C. If we can move Nemeth sure 5.5 or 5.75 would be more palatable but Nemeth probably won't be an easy move.

 

[Anthony5967]

Don't get me wrong I like Copp and he has fit in really nicely so far but I would still try to get him at 5 or under and no more than 4 years. We aren't even sure he can handle a full year at 2C. If we can move Nemeth sure 5.5 or 5.75 would be more palatable but Nemeth probably won't be an easy move.

Nemeth will be an easier move than many expect. It's $2.5M per a 30-year-old, veteran LHD with size. A team will take that to meet the cap floor. You just hope he waives. Marc Staal waived for Detroit and was owed significantly more, $5.7M per for one final season. The question: does Drury trade him?

 

[RangerBoy]

Three more seasons.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Nemeth will be an easier move than many expect. It's $2.5M per a 30-year-old, veteran LHD with size. A team will take that to meet the cap floor. You just hope he waives. Marc Staal waived for Detroit and was owed significantly more, $5.7M per for one final season. The question: does Drury trade him?

staal didnt waive for detroit. His NMC was done.

 

[bl02]

Nemeth will be an easier move than many expect. It's $2.5M per a 30-year-old, veteran LHD with size. A team will take that to meet the cap floor. You just hope he waives. Marc Staal waived for Detroit and was owed significantly more, $5.7M per for one final season. The question: does Drury trade him?

Doesn't he have a NMC or NTC? Unfortunately, we have no idea if he would shoot down a trade to a team that has to meet the cap floor. We also gave up 2nd round pick with Staal not sure how many picks we have in the next two drafts to just keep trading away?
And you're right it's possible Drury may not even want to move him. It's obvious the coach likes him as well.

 

[RangerBoy]

Nemeth will be an easier move than many expect. It's $2.5M per a 30-year-old, veteran LHD with size. A team will take that to meet the cap floor. You just hope he waives. Marc Staal waived for Detroit and was owed significantly more, $5.7M per for one final season. The question: does Drury trade him?

Nemeth has an eight team no trade list. Seven Canadian teams and one U.S. team.

Staal didn't waive his clause to the Red Wings. He had a limited NTC at the end of his contract. The Wings weren't on his list. The Rangers traded him without his permission.

Drury needs to move the $2.5M off of his cap.

 

[EdJovanovski]

 

[RangerBoy]

I don't think he should be going anywhere anytime soon, next season either. Get rid of that garbage Nemeth contract in the offseason somehow. Lingren is on a very friendly contract and will likely continue to be on his next contract. We get rid of him all we will be doing is trying to obtain the same type of player he is at every trade deadline.

There is not enough money for everyone. Forget about Nemeth's contract.. Go beyond that contract.

 

[McRanger92]

Nemeth has an eight team no trade list. Seven Canadian teams and one U.S. team.

Staal didn't waive his clause to the Red Wings. He had a limited NTC at the end of his contract. The Wings weren't on his list. The Rangers traded him without his permission.

Drury needs to move the $2.5M off of his cap.

Send him to DET like Staal with a pick. His value is probably higher around the league then we think considering hes bounced back and forth between 2 smart organizations in Colorado & Detroit since 2017.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

There is not enough money for everyone. Forget about Nemeth's contract.. Go beyond that contract.

Is this cap ever going up? I know it's 1M this year, and I think 1M the year after, after that maybe it moves up a few million or is it another year of 1M? Laf and Kakkos next contract shouldnt be too crazy yet which is good.

edit - just saw your next post about the cap. That's shit news for us.

 

[Daves a mess]

Hmm. Reaves in tonite. Strome out.
Igor in net.

 

[duhmetreE]

Three more seasons.

A guy like Kakko stands to benefit from getting a 3 year deal, betting on himself and getting a bigger payday in 3 seasons when the cap takes off.

On the other hand, Drury could bridge him 2 years, to extend him before the cap takes off. Benefitting the team over the long run.

We stand to benefit if we add some long term contracts before escrow is paid off. Whether it's Laffy, Kakko and/or KAM...

 

[GAGLine]

1 year rental. JT Miller is in the same category. I know we all want a sub-25 year old center signed to an affordable long term contract, with minimal acquisition cost, but we need to be realistic. The window to win is open now, the Rangers didn't take a big swing at the deadline this year, but its only going to become more likely if they win a round or 2 this year. Panarin/Kreider/Mika aren't getting any younger and Laf, Key & Kakko wont be making sub 5 mil AAV for much longer.

It would be beyond foolish to spend the kind of assets it would take to get Larkin, just to have him for only 1 year.

 

[RangerBoy]

Is this cap ever going up? I know it's 1M this year, and I think 1M the year after, after that maybe it moves up a few million or is it another year of 1M? Laf and Kakkos next contract shouldnt be too crazy yet which is good.

edit - just saw your next post about the cap. That's shit news for us.

$82.5M for next season. $83.5M for 23-24. $84.5M for 24-25.

???? for 25-26.