Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIV

[LORDE]

One cup since 1940... sends letter saying we’re going to rebuild and a tough road lays ahead. 1 year later... abandons said rebuild to try the same thing that got them just one cup in 80 years.

Sounds about right.

Except, and hear me out here... the GM hasn’t done a f***ing thing to indicate he’s straying from that tough road.

 

[True Blue]

Thats great Edge, but when you (not you personall) want to strip it down thats exactly the direction you are going in.

There's stripped down and there's stripped down. Most on here that support the rebuild do not want to strip it down to having a bunch of 20 year olds running around in roles that they are not meant to be in.

Gorton has not destroyed the house. He has taken a measured approach to taking a crumbling property, carefully take it down and rebuild it starting with the foundation first, while keeping some of the older parts as stables. There is nothing wrong with that. That is NOT Edmonton.

 

[SA16]

i have no interest in Panarin. Nothing about him screams winning player to me.

He has 185 wins in his career (the last four years).

Goalies are the only ones officially credited with wins and nobody has more than 151 in that time frame. He has 36 more wins than the winningest goal. That's not a winning player?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

i have no interest in Panarin. Nothing about him screams winning player to me.

Panarin's career low in points in a single season is higher than any Ranger not named Gaborik since 2007. Let that sink in for a moment. His career LOW, is still HIGHER than any other Ranger except for Gaborik.

 

[apoptygma]

Throw the C at Staal and A's on some other vets. Let them handle the media when we suck. Try to allievate the pressure when we tank away from our young guys. Don't do stupid stuff like COL did when handing a 18 year old Landeskog a C.
If needed overpay for a couple of guys on short time contracts to "mentor" the younglings. The next 2-3 years we will have a massive number of young players added into the team, where almost all will be under a media focus they have never experienced before.
Big changes in the lockerroom comming. Need veterans to take charge both in the room and on handling situations on and off the ice. I'm sure for a 20 year old guy from a small town in Canada or Sweden just moving to New York is a big challenge. Get
vets that are able and interested in helping those kids in more then just on ice X's & O's. If we have to pay 3 mill a year instead of 1,8 mill I don't care. It's an investment for the future. I'm sure it's much more easier to ask and take advice from a vet player that have
been in the same situation when he was a kid then taking the same info from a just another noname suite employed by MSG.

 

[mulli25]

The biggest thing people miss with the EDM & COL comparisons is the fact that we've consistently excelled in the areas where those teams fall on their face year after year: supporting talent and depth.

What we've lacked, and IMO the hardest piece to acquire, is the true high end talent. Something those jokes a franchise have been swimming in for years.

I have little to no doubt that given elite talent this team can effectively round out the roster and form a real contender. What remains to be seen is if they can effectively position themselves to get that elite talent.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Panarin's career low in points in a single season is higher than any Ranger not named Gaborik since 2007. Let that sink in for a moment. His career LOW, is still HIGHER than any other Ranger except for Gaborik.

That means exactly nothing. Out in the first round with the Hawks. Jackets go all in at the deadline and he has played terribly down the stretch. This is the guy you want to sign to a big money long term deal?

 

[LeetchisGod]

He has 185 wins in his career (the last four years).

Goalies are the only ones officially credited with wins and nobody has more than 151 in that time frame. He has 36 more wins than the winningest goal. That's not a winning player?

Do you want to sign Panarin to a big money long term deal? Hopefully Gorton doesn't.

 

[True Blue]

Except, and hear me out here... the GM hasn’t done a ****ing thing to indicate he’s straying from that tough road.

I hear you. I think for some others, it is hard to hear with head buried in sand.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Do you want to sign Panarin to a big money long term deal? Hopefully Gorton doesn't.

I’m sure they’ll kick the tires there.

But unless he is willing to shattenkirk his way to NY (taking a hit on money and term) it isn’t happening.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

So many people acting like they know exactly what Gorton is going to do. How? We don't even know where they'll be picking or how many picks they'll even have in the first round. It's fun to speculate but we don't have half the information. I would hope, at the very least, Gorton and co aren't as rigid as some of you want them to be. We have no idea what players will become available after the season or what teams will be looking to shake things up when the playoffs end. The idea that they absolutely must suck even worse next year is no way to run a team. They tried to suck this year and it's still probably not enough to get the 1st or 2nd pick. What makes people so sure they'll land one of those picks next year? Should they just keep sucking until they get 1OA? Sorry, but that's a loser's mentality.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

So many people acting like they know exactly what Gorton is going to do. How? We don't even know where they'll be picking or how many picks they'll even have in the first round. It's fun to speculate but we don't have half the information. I would hope, at the very least, Gorton and co aren't as rigid as some of you want them to be. We have no idea what players will become available after the season or what teams will be looking to shake things up when the playoffs end. The idea that they absolutely must suck even worse next year is no way to run a team. They tried to suck this year and it's still probably not enough to get the 1st or 2nd pick. What makes people so sure they'll land one of those picks next year? Should they just keep sucking until they get 1OA? Sorry, but that's a loser's mentality.

They didn’t actively try to suck this year. The idea isn’t as rigid as 1OA or bust, it’s about getting a core of players worth building around for 10+ years, now getting the 1OA makes it waaaay easier to do that, but the top end of next years draft is absolutely stacked, it’d be stupid to ignore that just to try to be a bubble team

 

[Ola]

Zero interest in Perry. That would be just dead weight for us. Even if he could stay healthy, his production has fallen off significantly.

Is he that bad nowadays? Look, I have zero illusions that he would make us better. But having a vet or two around to hold the hands of the kids isn’t a terrible idea if you have traded ‘everyone’. Some bring up Panarin in that perspective. It’s not that I don’t get arguments in favor of getting Panarin, but I think the counter arguments are stronger. Let’s say that we deal Kreider. Taking Perry from Anaheim more or less for free is a 2y commitment vs 7 for Panarin.

With that said — I would rather see we stayed away from him too. Just a name I pitched, don’t really know why... Thought of Shanahan first which led me to Perry.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

They didn’t actively try to suck this year. The idea isn’t as rigid as 1OA or bust, it’s about getting a core of players worth building around for 10+ years, now getting the 1OA makes it waaaay easier to do that, but the top end of next years draft is absolutely stacked, it’d be stupid to ignore that just to try to be a bubble team

Of course they did. They traded Nash, Grabner, Miller and McDonagh and replaced them with McQuaid, Claesson and prospects who they knew weren't going to be on the opening night roster. I think Howden was a surprise. As far as the draft, last years draft was stacked. How many out of the first 10 selected will ever live up to their billing? Half maybe? Some team drafting high is going to miss (through no fault of their own, these are kids) and it's going to set that franchise back years. Same as this and next year's draft. Of course drafting high is important and you want as many cracks at it as you can but it's not fool proof. There's still a very big risk when you put all your eggs in one basket. Not to mention that being the worst team doesn't guarantee you that first pick.

 

[Ola]

I’ve said this before, but I think the talk about how we didn’t ‘really’ try to tank this season is a construction after the fact.

Go back 1.5 years end tell this place that Gorton would make the moves he did at the deadline and everyone would have called that an extreme tanking job, we traded ‘every’ vet except Zucc and the tumors for futures. Didn’t pick up — any — real help during the summer.

Look at all teams that have finished 30-31st overall the last years. Our tank job is somewhat on par with those teams.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Of course they did. They traded Nash, Grabner, Miller and McDonagh and replaced them with McQuaid, Claesson and prospects who they knew weren't going to be on the opening night roster. As far as the draft, last years draft was stacked. How many out of the first 10 selected will ever live up to their billing? Half maybe? Some team drafting high is going to miss (through no fault of their own, these are kids) and it's going to set that franchise back years. Same as this and next year's draft. Of course drafting high is important and you want as many cracks at it as you can but it's not fool proof. There's still a very big risk when you put all your eggs in one basket. Not to mention that being the worst team doesn't guarantee you that first pick.

This roster still isn’t a bare bones roster, and the team has literately not stopped playing hard all year, the sure fire way to tank is to play terrible goalies, which they also aren’t doing.
As for the draft, duh, it’s not a guarantee, but nothing is a guarantee, and they’re not only relying on top 10 picks, they had 10 last year, and right now they have 10 this year and next year, which says to me, they’re stockpiling currency to either draft a home run somewhere in all the picks, or if they end up just having too many capable players, they can trade a bunch of them out to get a better talent in. And being the worst team doesn’t guarantee the 1OA pick, but it does guarantee a top 4 pick, which is as high as the Rangers have ever drafted

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That means exactly nothing. Out in the first round with the Hawks. Jackets go all in at the deadline and he has played terribly down the stretch. This is the guy you want to sign to a big money long term deal?

Hawks being eliminated in 4 games in 2016 was not Panarin's fault. Or should be not sign Crosby either because he lost in the first round against the Rangers in 2015? Panarin has 15 points in 17 play off games. He has not struggled to perform when it matters most. Panarin is worth the money.

 

[LORDE]

So many people acting like they know exactly what Gorton is going to do. How? We don't even know where they'll be picking or how many picks they'll even have in the first round. It's fun to speculate but we don't have half the information. I would hope, at the very least, Gorton and co aren't as rigid as some of you want them to be. We have no idea what players will become available after the season or what teams will be looking to shake things up when the playoffs end. The idea that they absolutely must suck even worse next year is no way to run a team. They tried to suck this year and it's still probably not enough to get the 1st or 2nd pick. What makes people so sure they'll land one of those picks next year? Should they just keep sucking until they get 1OA? Sorry, but that's a loser's mentality.

The only people being rigid are those who feel the rest of us feel we MUST be awful next year and MUST get 1OA in order to be happy.

A Patently false and obtuse take on our feelings.

We want a Cup. We want to be relevant again. We can look at the team as is, forsee who will probably be added and have an honest assement that we will be bad next year. NOT because we want it... but because we can make an educated guess. Given that fact we are more likely to pick higher... that’s a fact. Picking higher gives us a better chance at elite. Again, fact.

Gorton doesn’t know how many 1st he has either yet.

 

[True Blue]

So many people acting like they know exactly what Gorton is going to do. How?

No one knows what he is going to do. But going off of what he has done since he sent the letter out can be used as an indicator.

I would hope, at the very least, Gorton and co aren't as rigid as some of you want them to be.

Being rigid and sticking to a game plan are two different things.

The idea that they absolutely must suck even worse next year is no way to run a team. They tried to suck this year and it's still probably not enough to get the 1st or 2nd pick.

Gorton and Quinn did not try to "suck". Nor do I believe that their goal was to get the top two picks.

The idea that they will probably be worse next year is stemmed from the belief that Gorton is not signing big UFAs, Henke is a year older, the likes of Staal, Shattenkirk and Smith depreciate another year, and now they need to play the entire year without Hayes or Zucc.

What makes people so sure they'll land one of those picks next year? Should they just keep sucking until they get 1OA? Sorry, but that's a loser's mentality.

I do not think that any leve headed person is advocating this.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Hawks being eliminated in 4 games in 2016 was not Panarin's fault. Or should be not sign Crosby either because he lost in the first round against the Rangers in 2015? Panarin has 15 points in 17 play off games. He has not struggled to perform when it matters most. Panarin is worth the money.

When has Panarin elevated the performance of any of his teams? It didn't happen with the Hawks. It's not happening in Columbus. It won't happen here. People would be ready to run him out of town in short order.

 

[True Blue]

The only people being rigid are those who feel the rest of us feel we MUST be awful next year and MUST get 1OA in order to be happy.

A Patently false and obtuse take on our feelings.

We want a Cup. We want to be relevant again. We can look at the team as is, forsee who will probably be added and have an honest assement that we will be bad next year. NOT because we want it... but because we can make an educated guess. Given that fact we are more likely to pick higher... that’s a fact. Picking higher gives us a better chance at elite. Again, fact.

Gorton doesn’t know how many 1st he has either yet.

This needs to be framed and brought out periodically during this process over the next several years.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

When has Panarin elevated the performance of any of his teams? It didn't happen with the Hawks. It's not happening in Columbus. It won't happen here. People would be ready to run him out of town in short order.

Just because his teams did not get past the 1st round, doesn't mean he is not a good player. Or should we just pass on McDavid as well? He doesn't even make the play offs. Using team-results to judge an individual is ridiculous

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

No one knows what he is going to do. But going off of what he has done since he sent the letter out can be used as an indicator.

Being rigid and sticking to a game plan are two different things.

Gorton and Quinn did not try to "suck". Nor do I believe that their goal was to get the top two picks.

The idea that they will probably be worse next year is stemmed from the belief that Gorton is not signing big UFAs, Henke is a year older, the likes of Staal, Shattenkirk and Smith depreciate another year, and now they need to play the entire year without Hayes or Zucc.

I do not think that any leve headed person is advocating this.

Look, when you read people saying you should trade Zibanejad because his no move kicks in in a year or whenever or they should move Kreider for a mid 1st at the draft, that's purposely wanting to suck, I don't know how else to look at it. And for the record, I have zero problem with what they've done the last two years. Move guys and accumulate younger players and assets, I've been on board. But people losing their shit at the thought of signing Panarin (I don't want to) because the rebuild must be 2, 3, or however many years is silly. Does signing him mean that Gorton is all of a sudden not sticking to his plan?

Again, I could be wrong but I get the vibe that people want to ice as bad a team as possible next year, get rid of anyone over 25 for the chance to get lucky to draft Lafrenierre. I have no interest in that. None. It's a disaster waiting to happen. To me, it's more important that they hit on the player they already have and will select, wherever he was taken mid-first, late second, early 4th, I don't care. That's the difference between Chicago and Tampa and Buffalo and Edmonton.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Just because his teams did not get past the 1st round, doesn't mean he is not a good player. Or should we just pass on McDavid as well? He doesn't even make the play offs. Using team-results to judge an individual is ridiculous

I haven't said that he isn't a good player. I don't believe he is worth the money that he will command. I also think that he is a complementary player, not a lead dog. We have no one for him to complement.

 

[Off Sides]

Let's go with the Jets decade thought for a moment from a different perspective, Not that I think this was the Rangers plan at the time, yet it sort of rounded out that way.

Draft years
2011 Zbad, Strome
2012 Skjei, Vesey
2013 Buchnevich
2014 Shesterkin, Lemieux, DeAngelo, I think Georgiev draft year if he were drafted (maybe have been 2015)
2015
2016 Howden, Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren
2017 Andersson, Chytil
2018 Kravtsov, Miller, Lundkvist
2019?
2020?

2021 would be a decade.

I guess the question would be, should they stick to that, make some trades or signings, can the roster eventually be in comparison to the current Jets?

Can they figure out how to draft, trade for, sign, a core group who is something like Scheifele, Connor, Laine, Trouba, Ehlers, Morrissey, Lowry, Byfuglien, Hellebuyck, Wheeler?

Outside of Laine who was drafted #2, Wheeler #5 who they traded for, they rest came from picks 7, 9, 9, 13, 17, and later, Byfuglien #245 was traded for.

I'd say they have at least one similar part to that in Zbad, they have some devloping stuff that may become similar in ADA, Buch, Chytil, goalies, etc, and they have the 2018 draftees with Kravtsov, Miller, etc, and next two drafts to try to add to that.

All in all it would take really good drafting these next two drafts, eventually shrewd trades, maybe a key signing or two once they know what they actually need, yet that does not seem all that crazy to me. If they happen to finish in very early draft spots, or win the lottery obviously better odds, yet even if not I don't think that is totally out of the realm of plausibility they could build a similar roster where they are all pretty much in their prime all at the same time.