Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIV

[effen]

the entire roster of the Florida Panthers

Landeskog, MacKinnon, Duchense, Rantanen on that epically terrible Colorado Avalanche team a couple years ago

 

[effen]

The entire Pittsburgh Penguins Organization.

Unless you think the dozen games they got from Mario in 2005-06 were huge for them.

thats not even a good example lol. they signed recchi, gonchar, bill guerin, etc. in the years after Crosby arrived.

Winnipeg is a great example, they had no trades or UFA signings of note for like a decade other than buying low on Wheeler and getting Tyler Myers in time for him to regress.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

Love it. Banking on Tanking for the top pick. All the eggs into that basket. Lose forever until you get that pick, who may or may not workout. Do a disservice to the multitude of kids you have already drafted by stripping the team of every established veteran and not adding any premium talent to them. Throw them to the wolves and screw their development because the ultimate goal is a #1 pick above all else.

Got news for you, those 1st round picks are still 1st round picks. They still hold more value over a 3rd or a 4th or so on. They wouldnt have been deafted as high if they didnt hold more weight. And guess what they are already here logging NHL minutes. So should we waste their prime years of development because they werent Dahlin or Hughes or Kakko?

Some here would be ok with losing forever. I get the frustration, but I wonder if those people would be happier with getting the #1 pick, being an embarassment over 82 games as Ottawa has been, than winning a Cup. And dont come at me with the way we have been doing it hasnt been working. We had an incredible group from 2012-2015. They came close multiple seasons. We didnt have a 1st overall pick in there.

So sick of being force fed that there is only one way this rebuild can and should happen because some guy posts the same bull**** over and over again as if he as seen the future. He knows.

Feed the kids the wolves. Strip the team down with the hope of getting the #1 pick. Waste the development years of the kids we have drafted. Be the Edmonton Oilers.

That won’t happen under Quinn, the fact they aren’t last with their ROW record should tell you want much already. The reason a lot are on board with the re-build is because it is something what should’ve happen a long time ago like 2000 when Sather was hired. The Sather Era has always seemed to retool though the draft and FA and that just hasn’t worked.

The 2012-2015 era that you fondly remember was filled with good not great teams and that’s why they didn’t win. More than ever, you need elite talent to win and Rangers just haven’t really had that type of talent since Jagr in 06 and 07. Trying to win acquiring past their prime stars (MSL, Richards) or tier below elite stars (Gaborik, Nash) is going less to success, but not the ultimate prize because they drive and dominate shifts and games in key moments. Look all the recent Cup winners, all of their top talent was drafted and developed in their system.

That’s the overarching point, Gorton realized you aren’t gonna win with drafting and siginimh solid, good players like Stepan, Kreider, Hagelin, and Zuccarello and then trying to fill the rest with FAs and trading for stars. You have to draft those elite talents and the best way to do it is early in the draft. I wish the Rangers had a great scouting department like TB and they could find a Kucherov or Point, but history shows that isn’t likely to happen.

Hopefully, Rangers have a Toronto re-build and they are get a Marner and Matthews in short order and they are a playoff team by 2021. Look at the Jets, it took a while from their relocation from Atlanta to become the team they have become. Look I don’t like the fact we have to tank to possibly get great talent, but unfortunately that’s how it works. I’m more frustrating watching all these great players put up these amazing numbers and none of them are Rangers. If you are happy having a good team that might sniff a Final just to lose, that’s your prerogative. But I want a deep team with a terrifying top line and I believe the Rangers are on their way to having that team in the future.

The Edmonton Oilers cmon, this isn’t the dark ages bad. They are some good prospects in the system already, just need 2 or 3 great ones and I believe the Rangers will be in a great position, where that takes 2-5 or longer is the biggest question. Hopefully, it’s sooner, just trust that Gorton and Quinn are doing.

 

[RGY]

the entire roster of the Florida Panthers

Where has that roster gone? Bjugstad was just traded.

Who is next that they move? Terrible example. Team has been a disappointment year after year

 

[RGY]

That won’t happen under Quinn, the fact they aren’t last with their ROW record should tell you want much already. The reason a lot are on board with the re-build is because it is something what should’ve happen a long time ago like 2000 when Sather was hired. The Sather Era has always seemed to retool though the draft and FA and that just hasn’t worked.

The 2012-2015 era that you fondly remember was filled with good not great teams and that’s why they didn’t win. More than ever, you need elite talent to win and Rangers just haven’t really had that type of talent since Jagr in 06 and 07. Trying to win acquiring past their prime stars (MSL, Richards) or tier below elite stars (Gaborik, Nash) is going less to success, but not the ultimate prize because they drive and dominate shifts and games in key moments. Look all the recent Cup winners, all of their top talent was drafted and developed in their system.

That’s the overarching point, Gorton realized you aren’t gonna win with drafting and siginimh solid, good players like Stepan, Kreider, Hagelin, and Zuccarello and then trying to fill the rest with FAs and trading for stars. You have to draft those elite talents and the best way to do it is early in the draft. I wish the Rangers had a great scouting department like TB and they could find a Kucherov or Point, but history shows that isn’t likely to happen.

Hopefully, Rangers have a Toronto re-build and they are get a Marner and Matthews in short order and they are a playoff team by 2021. Look at the Jets, it took a while from their relocation from Atlanta to become the team they have become. Look I don’t like the fact we have to tank to possibly get great talent, but unfortunately that’s how it works. I’m more frustrating watching all these great players put up these amazing numbers and none of them are Rangers. If you are happy having a good team that might sniff a Final just to lose, that’s your prerogative. But I want a deep team with a terrifying top line and I believe the Rangers are on their way to having that team in the future.

The Edmonton Oilers cmon, this isn’t the dark ages bad. They are some good prospects in the system already, just need 2 or 3 great ones and I believe the Rangers will be in a great position, where that takes 2-5 or longer is the biggest question. Hopefully, it’s sooner, just trust that Gorton and Quinn are doing.

To be clear i never said they shouldnt rebuild. I am all for it. I dont believe in tanking on purpose to get a #1 pick, which you may not even get with the lottery system, and the pick may be a bust or an average NHL player.

 

[haohmaru]

The entire Pittsburgh Penguins Organization.

Unless you think the dozen games they got from Mario in 2005-06 were huge for them.

Recchi, Gonchar, Leclair, & Ruutu were all north of 30 in 2006 and 3/4 played 81 or more regular season games. Pittsburgh has always had vets on their teams. Recchi & Gonchar (Recchi @ 38) were 3rd and 4th in scoring on that team.

Gonchar was still there when they won their first Cup at age 34. Also on that team playing significant games and contributing - Sykora (32) Fedotenko (30) Satan (34) Cooke (30) Eaton (31) Gill (33).

There's a mix of vets on all teams - rebuilding, contending, and window teams. Period. The Rangers, other than Lundqvist, have pretty much no one of any impact (other than negative - Staal) over 30 besides Shattenkirk.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

thats not even a good example lol. they signed recchi, gonchar, bill guerin, etc. in the years after Crosby arrived.

Winnipeg is a great example, they had no trades or UFA signings of note for like a decade other than buying low on Wheeler and getting Tyler Myers in time for him to regress.

Right but that was after they got their stars.

You'll be hard pressed to find a team that didnt add some vets along the way, but they werent added first.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Recchi, Gonchar, Leclair, & Ruutu were all north of 30 in 2006 and 3/4 played 81 or more regular season games. Pittsburgh has always had vets on their teams. Recchi & Gonchar (Recchi @ 38) were 3rd and 4th in scoring on that team.

Gonchar was still there when they won their first Cup at age 34. Also on that team playing significant games and contributing - Sykora (32) Fedotenko (30) Satan (34) Cooke (30) Eaton (31) Gill (33).

There's a mix of vets on all teams - rebuilding, contending, and window teams. Period. The Rangers, other than Lundqvist, have pretty much no one of any impact (other than negative - Staal) over 30 besides Shattenkirk.

Leclair was on his way out of the league and as you mentioned Recchi was pretty old.

I'm 100% for signing those guys (I'd love to bring in Williams this summer.) Its the big ticket UFA's who they need to stay away from.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I meant to say and already edited to add with the exception of Crosby and Malkin or are generational talents.

I want to know who is going to guide the A-, B+ prospects.

Themselves?

Or you can get veterans on the cheap until they're ready to take the reigns. You don't need to spend a bunch of money for that.

 

[haohmaru]

thats not even a good example lol. they signed recchi, gonchar, bill guerin, etc. in the years after Crosby arrived.

Winnipeg is a great example, they had no trades or UFA signings of note for like a decade other than buying low on Wheeler and getting Tyler Myers in time for him to regress.

Gonchar was on the team for the Pens 2005-6 season (Crosby's rookie year). I mean, if you want to be technical about it, Crosby was drafted first but Gonchar was signed as a vet that summer without Crosby having played an NHL game yet. I'm not for signing Karlsson whatsoever, but it'd be like us drafting Hughes and signing EK on July 1st.

Recchi signed in 2004, so you're 100% wrong on that.

 

[haohmaru]

Leclair was on his way out of the league and as you mentioned Recchi was pretty old.

I'm 100% for signing those guys (I'd love to bring in Williams this summer.) Its the big ticket UFA's who they need to stay away from.

Yeah, Leclair didn't play all that much but Gonchar and Recchi were key players that rookie season and Gonchar was a huge factor for them on the back end and PP. Like I said, I'm not pro Panarin or EK but I understand the point of view for people who harbor it.

 

[Edge]

Personally I’d rather overpay on a shorter deal for a mid-range Free Agent.

Give them their money up front, for less years, but not be married to anyone until we know what we have or don’t have.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Where has that roster gone? Bjugstad was just traded.

Who is next that they move? Terrible example. Team has been a disappointment year after year

All they need is goaltending that isn’t terrible

 

[Edge]

I just think comparisons to Edmonton, Colorado and Florida are off-base.

Free agency, the ability to find talent outside the first round (if not the top 12 picks), and other factors are huge problems for at least two of those franchises.

Even for (most) people who want to stockpile picks and prospects at this stage, the draft is not the Alpha and Omega for what a team needs to be successful. There are other components, and that includes free agents and veterans.

 

[Zibanejbread]

Personally I’d rather overpay on a shorter deal for a mid-range Free Agent.

Give them their money up front, for less years, but not be married to anyone until we know what we have or don’t have.

100% agree to this. Plus, we should be able to use them as TD assets.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

All they need is goaltending that isn’t terrible

I'd rather be the Panthers than the Wild.

You toss the Panthers core in NY and that team is winning within 3 years.

 

[Mikos87]

If the NTCs clear out, would anyone be okay with a Sutter for Smith deal?

VAN needs defensemen.

Sutter is an LTIR hit waiting to happen or a veteran 4th liner next year.

The Rangers haven't had a 4th line this season. I fully expect some moves to be made to remedy that. Not saying Sutter is a worthwhile everyday player, but it's one of the few viable hockey trades for Brendan Smith.

 

[Mikos87]

Personally I’d rather overpay on a shorter deal for a mid-range Free Agent.

Give them their money up front, for less years, but not be married to anyone until we know what we have or don’t have.

I'd take it a peg further down. Guys like Sheahan, Hathaway, Accriari on 2 year deals to play on the 4th line would be welcome additions. Hathaway in particular.

 

[Mikos87]

I'd trade Jesper Fast at the draft for mid-round pick. I don't see many NHL years ahead for him, get what you can now.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I'd take it a peg further down. Guys like Sheahan, Hathaway, Accriari on 2 year deals to play on the 4th line would be welcome additions. Hathaway in particular.

Hathaway and Lemieux would awesome on a 4th line.

 

[Mikos87]

Hathaway and Lemieux would awesome on a 4th line.

Put a pesky high motor center between the two, and you've got an excellent 4th line. Even if that's Bellemare on a 1 year deal. That's a move I would be willing to overpay for by a couple hundred thou. You insulate the kids instead of throwing them into the wolves, have high compete character players that won't take a shift off.

 

[bobbop]

Winnipeg is a great example, they had no trades or UFA signings of note for like a decade other than buying low on Wheeler and getting Tyler Myers in time for him to regress.

You got a decade to burn?

 

[effen]

You got a decade to burn?

If you tick auto draft you can sim it in about 45 minutes no problem.

 

[NYRKING30]

Love it. Banking on Tanking for the top pick. All the eggs into that basket. Lose forever until you get that pick, who may or may not workout. Do a disservice to the multitude of kids you have already drafted by stripping the team of every established veteran and not adding any premium talent to them. Throw them to the wolves and screw their development because the ultimate goal is a #1 pick above all else.

Got news for you, those 1st round picks are still 1st round picks. They still hold more value over a 3rd or a 4th or so on. They wouldnt have been deafted as high if they didnt hold more weight. And guess what they are already here logging NHL minutes. So should we waste their prime years of development because they werent Dahlin or Hughes or Kakko?

Some here would be ok with losing forever. I get the frustration, but I wonder if those people would be happier with getting the #1 pick, being an embarassment over 82 games as Ottawa has been, than winning a Cup. And dont come at me with the way we have been doing it hasnt been working. We had an incredible group from 2012-2015. They came close multiple seasons. We didnt have a 1st overall pick in there.

So sick of being force fed that there is only one way this rebuild can and should happen because some guy posts the same bull**** over and over again as if he as seen the future. He knows.

Feed the kids the wolves. Strip the team down with the hope of getting the #1 pick. Waste the development years of the kids we have drafted. Be the Edmonton Oilers.

That's it you've convinced me. Sign Tavares, Karlsson, Panarin, Kovalchuk, Stamkos,Machado,Harper. Sign Hall next summer. Put all of the chips in the middle of the table and hope we can win in the next 2 or 3 years before the fanbase wants most, if not all of those guys bought out. If not then, theres alway's the new CBA compliance buyouts. People think the rebuild is over 14 months after it just began. The things your mentioning are at least just one year away when we have a better understanding of where we are at and what we have. Try to be patient for one more year. 14 month's in and expecting to see a climb towards the playoffs next season isn't patient and just quite unrealistic honestly. Next year could be the real bottom out year. One step at a time.

 

[Barnaby]

Yup, I always liked Martin. Good RHS D. Never hit it off in NA though.

Martin Richter at eliteprospects.com

I can't believe I just took the time to look up Martin Richters stats.