Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIV

[Barnaby]

What about Boston?

I think you have it backwards. Crossing our fingers and hoping we get a top pick, is not a plan. It is out of our control. On the other hand, scouting and due diligence can land good hockey players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

2014,2015 and 2016 is empty besides Shesty... Maybe Reunanen... Our 2nd and 3rd round hit rate need to be improved upon.

Of course the higher the pick, the higher the likelihood that we find core stars.

If we are counting on finding the next Point or Bergeron in the 2nd or 3rd round then we might be waiting awhile.

You can find good players later in the draft, but increased scouting/resources have changed things in recent years. The days of Detroit finding the Lidstroms and Datsyuks in the 7th round are a ton less likely.

 

[NYRKING30]

Respectfully, I disagree with every word of this post and it is nothing more than the grass is always greener mentality. Look at what the Jets have now so they must have done something right.

No. They didn't. Atlanta for years FUBAR'd their talent. Bad trades. Bad drafting. When you are bad for that many years in a row and miss on that many picks, eventually the pendulum swings the other way and you get lucky on a few. They are a team that had no plan, with a GM in Waddell who couldn't have done a worse job if he tried. Then, you have Dudley who was desperate to get the team back in the playoffs at all costs and went hard after Ladd and Byfuglien (when they had no business doing so). Dudley got axed when the team went to Winnipeg and they proceeded to hit on a few consecutive draft picks with Scheifele being the most important. Cheveldayoff IMO has done a sub par job managing that franchise since he took over and botched the Trouba contract situation and is now going to be paying for it.

Not a model I want to emulate.

What if the player never wanted a long term deal to stay in Winnipeg? There were rumors a few years ago he wanted to play in the states or close to Michigan where his gf was in school to become a nurse. Not really sure you can fault Chevy for that one.

 

[Edge]

Focusing on the whole “needing to find talent in later rounds” concept, and getting away from the ongoing debate about lottery picks, this team flat-out needs to keep its picks for a while.

We often point to the lack of a first rounder between 2013-2016, but one of the less talked about challenges we had was the sheer number of picks we moved.

In 2010, we didn’t have a third
In 2011, we didn’t have a second
In 2012, we didn’t have a third
In 2013, we didn’t have a second
In 2016, we didn’t have a second
In 2017, we didn’t have a second or third

Make no mistake, these picks have lower percentages than first round picks, and the talent available varies greatly, but you’re still talking about no less than seven top 90/93 selections in an eight year span.

So while finding the next Kucharev or Gaudreau is what everyone wants, the first step is making sure we have the picks for that to even be a possibility.

 

[Barnaby]

There is no 'right' way in rebuilding/building a team. Finding talent and filling depth roles can happen in many ways.

If there's one team I'd like to copy, it'd be TB/BOS.. In as finding top-line talent in the 2nd and 3rd round. Also they're not scared to lock up most of their talent, long-term, creating value in the long run... but it's mostly just their scouting

The only thing I'd be adamantly against, is giving bottom6 players and 3rd pairing 'defense'man big money.

Give me a Kucherov/Point or Bergeron/Marchand from the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

There is s right way. You build a young core through the draft. You don't need to land 1OA six times, but obviously the higher the pick is the higher the likelihood of finding those core pieces. You then supplement that core via trades and free agency to mold a winner.

You mention TB. They drafted Hedman/Stamkos/Kucherov etc... they signed or traded for McDonagh, Miller, Stralman etc...

 

[Barnaby]

Accelerated rebuild = failed rebuild. We need to show a little patience.

 

[bobbop]

Trading away draft picks was not just confined to the first round. We sent two seconds to Calgary in the Tim Erixon deal. Same in the Eric Staal deal with Carolina. And on and on. We've entered too many drafts with 4 or 5 picks. You need draft capital to get players you want and take chances on some lottery tickets.

 

[Edge]

Trading away draft picks was not just confined to the first round. We sent two seconds to Calgary in the Tim Erixon deal. Same in the Eric Staal deal with Carolina. And on and on. We've entered too many drafts with 4 or 5 picks. You need draft capital to get players you want and take chances on some lottery tickets.

Since 2007, the Rangers traded completely out of one of the first 4 rounds approximately 14 times.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Kind of late to getting around to the recent 31 thoughts podcast but they went in depth on the Dubas-Babcock conflict over roster building. Babcock wants more players that are tough to play against, grind mentality, competitors. Dubas maybe went too far on the skill end.

It's nothing new, but I really want Gorton to target Nylander. Kreider and Smith for Nylander and Horton. Kreider checks boxes for both the coach and gm, speed skill, compete. Smith is a Babcock guy, gritty. Would be better if he was a right shooting RHD which is a Babcock obsession.

Horton clears the summer cap because Marner isn't taking a discount, helping the franchise or settling for a penny less than Matthews.

If retaining on Smith gets it done, I'm all aboard.

Nylander, Buchnevich, and Kravtsov in the pipeline, makes Panarin unnecessary on the right. Use the cap for stop gaps and smart trades on d.

 

[RGY]

Not interested in helping Toronto’s cap situation by taking Horton so they can sign Marner.

Nylander has been pretty bad since coming back. Thats not good value from the Rangers side. They could do better for Kreider imo

 

[NYR Viper]

Not interested in helping Toronto’s cap situation by taking Horton so they can sign Marner.

Nylander has been pretty bad since coming back. Thats not good value from the Rangers side. They could do better for Kreider imo

Why not help them? The Rangers aren’t competing in the next few years. If they give up a prine asset to do so go for it

 

[effen]

I don't see how paying Nylander market value does anything for New York in the near term, let alone giving up assets to get him.

Smith's been really good and worth has salary this year.

 

[Fitzy]

I don't see how paying Nylander market value does anything for New York in the near term, let alone giving up assets to get him.

Smith's been really good and worth has salary this year.

 

[bobbop]

I don't see how paying Nylander market value does anything for New York in the near term, let alone giving up assets to get him.

Smith's been really good and worth has salary this year.

Brendan Smith?

 

[bobbop]

Here’s a thought. Prior to the trade deadline I was told the Rangers were talking to Vegas about something (what exactly my contact didn’t know) This offseason, Vegas will probably be looking for a place to park David Clarkson’s dead contract as well as the possibility of moving a defenseman (Colin Miller?) to make room for a couple of their rising prospects. There may be a chance to do some business here.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Here’s a thought. Prior to the trade deadline I was told the Rangers were talking to Vegas about something (what exactly my contact didn’t know) This offseason, Vegas will probably be looking for a place to park David Clarkson’s dead contract as well as the possibility of moving a defenseman (Colin Miller?) to make room for a cou0le if their rising prospects. There may be a chance to dons9me business here.

I threw out the idea for Shattenkirk for Miller around the TDL. Vegas needs another PPQB option- 19th ranked power play could come back to bite them in the playoffs

 

[Fitzy]

Brendan Smith?

He's been worth his salary if his purpose was to help the tank, for sure.

 

[Edge]

We’ve lowered the expectations so low for Smith at this point, that him not making a complete fool of himself as a forward is something we’re willing to celebrate.

 

[RGY]

Here’s a thought. Prior to the trade deadline I was told the Rangers were talking to Vegas about something (what exactly my contact didn’t know) This offseason, Vegas will probably be looking for a place to park David Clarkson’s dead contract as well as the possibility of moving a defenseman (Colin Miller?) to make room for a couple of their rising prospects. There may be a chance to do some business here.

Would love to have Colin Miller.

I like William Nylander but just not as interested in giving up as much as i would have before he signed. He has been more of a passenger on that team that is loaded. Makes me wonder if we would struggle even more with less talent around him.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Don't know where to post this so I'll just say it here - I highly recommend everyone listen to Matt Barnaby's interview on Spittin Chiclets. He's got a lot of interesting things to say about the Rangers teams he was on and the quote he tells from Bobby Holik just absolutely sums up Glen Sather doing the dark ages.

His comments on Jagr and Hasek were awesome too. Barnaby is a really smart guy. Guy should be in the broadcast booth.

 

[Leetch3]

Don't know where to post this so I'll just say it here - I highly recommend everyone listen to Matt Barnaby's interview on Spittin Chiclets. He's got a lot of interesting things to say about the Rangers teams he was on and the quote he tells from Bobby Holik just absolutely sums up Glen Sather doing the dark ages.

His comments on Jagr and Hasek were awesome too. Barnaby is a really smart guy. Guy should be in the broadcast booth.

link?

and barnaby is on nhl radio on sirius every afternoon

 

[Chaels Arms]

link?

and barnaby is on nhl radio on sirius every afternoon

I'm just going to paraphrase the Bobby Holik thing since it's too good for everyone to miss out on.

Barnaby says he was on the bench with Holik early in his Rangers tenure. Holik looked at him and said "Hey, did Slats even watch me play the last few years? I mean, they offer me all this money, I've got to take it. But man, if I'm your 3rd line center and maybe you give me some time on the 2nd PP unit, we can make the finals. But here, with what they expect of me, we're not even making the playoffs." And he did it all imitating Holik's accent.

Might have surpassed the Hayes/Yandle episode as my favorite interview.

 

[Ola]

Of course the higher the pick, the higher the likelihood that we find core stars.

If we are counting on finding the next Point or Bergeron in the 2nd or 3rd round then we might be waiting awhile.

You can find good players later in the draft, but increased scouting/resources have changed things in recent years. The days of Detroit finding the Lidstroms and Datsyuks in the 7th round are a ton less likely.

Great post.

I think the aim got to be to make those later picks count. Find guys who will compete for spots on their nations national teams, will get into the highest national league etc. Get the good players, don’t focus too much on intangibles. Good things will happen. Minimize the number of picks that don’t basically can’t even find a job 3-4 years after the draft.

Like you said, finding the next franchise guy in the 7th will be difficult. But there are many good players drafted outside the 1-2 round still.

It’s like, it feels more and more like that so many of the kids that do make it often really got a road up until making the NHL that just is perfect. Injury free for a number of years. Good environment outside the NHL. Confidence. Good form. Then perfect environment in the NHL, a team with a roster that really need someone like them. And so forth. Get as many kids in the running as possible.

 

[Barnaby]

Trading away draft picks was not just confined to the first round. We sent two seconds to Calgary in the Tim Erixon deal. Same in the Eric Staal deal with Carolina. And on and on. We've entered too many drafts with 4 or 5 picks. You need draft capital to get players you want and take chances on some lottery tickets.

I didnt have a problem with the Tim Erixon trade, but the rest for sure.

Tim Erixon was a future move... I kind of look at him as a failed first (or two 2nds).

 

[Ola]

Brendan Smith?

Hehe, I have to say though, it is fun to see Smith use every trick in the book against defenders in 1 on 1 battles.

—-

BTW, I also don’t know where to put this. I like Quinn, but he must do something about his appearance. That oily hair, way too much mega hold hair gel. Someone need to have an intervention with this guy. Budget suits. As it is now, it’s only a matter of time before someone calls him in for just walking past a kinder garden. He must loosen up a little.

 

[egelband]

Panarin signing would take us one step closer to being a better team, nothing more. The real question here is are the contract, and its clauses, worth it?

Totally agree. His timeline is good and he doesn't have hard mileage. If he will take Robin money for a reasonable term, I'd do it. If he wants to break the bank - and someone else offers Top Dog money - he goes elsewhere.
Id actually be mildly surprised if he gets offered a huge deal. I think he signs 9x5 or 8x6. Something like that.