Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIII

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No, I know. Was more coming on top of your post as it gave a good reference point.

There is NOTHING that Gorton has done to make me think that are band aid fixes or short cuts coming.

Not that I think it's a great move, but Gorton signing Panarin isn't something that would surprise me. I think he's young enough to be a part of the future "window" but I dread the contract/terms that would go along with it. It'll be an interesting summer that might get even more interesting if TB wins the Cup and Zooks signs with Dallas.
 
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...Also, many prospects show 'glimpses' and never pan out. I wouldn't get too excited. If anything, outside of Hajek's very minor stint and ADA, I have been largely disappointed with how our prospects have looked this year.

To each his own, but I am satisfied with the overall season and the progress from the start to now from Buchnevich, Chytil, ADA, Hajek, even Andersson, Nieves (and Pionk)
 
To each his own, but I am satisfied with the overall season and the progress from the start to now from Buchnevich, Chytil, ADA, Hajek, even Andersson, Nieves (and Pionk)

Eh. I think DeAngelo's on ice performance over the last 6 weeks is the only thing to get legitimately excited about, then he f***s it up by pulling something else and getting himself scratched. It's still early and Im willing to be patient, but this thing isn't taking off anytime soon.
 
I've pretty much settled on us picking at #9. After running the tankathon SIM about a hundred times and only moving up a handful of times, the writing is on the wall. I've followed this team too long to expect luck to fall on our side. I'm hopeful, just not optimistic.

Nah, it's been over since the deadline. You don't trade top-six players before a cup run.
 
It was odd- he made a comeback to a semi-functional level, and then they gave him a contract based on his pre-injury level of performance.

Playing in the Renney/Torts systems were also better for Marc than AVs

This is a concept/idea I've been thinking of recently.

We have the idea that we shouldn't shell out money to our RFAs until we absolutely know they're consistent. But at that point, they're value has sky rocketed and they can make $$$.

Then you have players who have produced throughout their career but either due to injury, age, or circumstance are coming up to a point where it's likely their production will falter (happens all the time in UFA land, my fellow Ranger fans remember Redden, Gomez, Drury, Richards all too well) and then you're overpaying for their twilight years.

The name of the game is calculated risks. Based on all the evidence you have, all the data, gut feelings, projects, etc, you offer a contract that you hope will get you the best bang for the buck. It's a case by case scenario, not a one size fits all.
 
It's almost easy to forget those days. We'll never know how he would've done without that 1-2 punch, it forever changed his trajectory when he was still fairly young.

Injuries played a crucial role in how quickly that last group declined and how that window closed.

Staal, McD, Nash, Sauer off the top of my head. That's 75 percent of a top four on defense and a top line cornerstone winger. Nash, who everyone agrees had his career impacted way too early, was the only one who cleared 30 somewhat intact.

Even through 2016, most of the guys should've still been close to their peak.

It is just so sad to think of Sauer, Staal, McD, Nash and think what could have been. It's crazy, and it just emphasizes how much winning a championship comes down to gold ole' luck (drafting right, signing the right UFAs and being injury free at the right time).

It's why, at least for me, being a successful team is so much more than just winning a single championship. It's about continued improvement, growing an organization and team that brings you consistent results. You may not win a championship, but damn you will be competitive and produce efforts worth remembering.
 
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Trade:
Kreider for a young player, prospect and mid 1st
Namestnikov for a couple of picks
Strome for a couple of picks
Shatty with retention and/or picks for whatever
Smith with retention and/or picks for whatever

Sign:
Curtis Lazar
Taro Hirose
Dylan McIlrath

Line-up:
Kravtsov-Ziba-Vesey
Buch-Chytil-Lazar
Hirose-Lias-Lemieux
Howden-Boo-Fast
Virta

Skjei-TDA
Hajak-Pionk
Staal-Gilmour
McIlrath

Hank
Geo

Plan:

-There would of course be some adds to the above lineup. The young player we get in the Kreider trade etc. But enter the season with roughly that roster.

-Have a lineup that is fast, hard working and very assertive.

Lazar is in the Lemieux mold. Very good skater, a little too heavy, but not without talent. I think there would be a comfortable atmosphere around the above team, even if it has its struggles. Wide speculation that Calgary won’t qualify him, they are too deep. Ottawa rushed Lazar really bad, he has done well in the AHL lately.

Hirose has those fantastic wheels.

Kravtsov is ready, no doubt. Will fit in great with Ziba. Not be a star from the drop of the puck, but he can play 15 minutes a night.

-Gorton will have:
(a) 20-30m of cap space.
(b) all the picks made the last years. Probably 9 recent 1st rounders. A bunch of 2-3rd picks.
(c) a bunch of young — NHLers — ie kids who’s value will go up a lot instantly when they get to play in the NHL.

From like August 1st, focus should be 100% on improving the on ice product. Build a team. Getting Panarin or Karlsson won’t be good value deals. Panarin was traded for Saad, Karlsson for some picks and b tier players. The next time trades like that is made, Gorton should be in on them.

Sure it would seem like we would get a higher pick in 2020 too. But the process cannot be of tearing down the team anymore, it’s time to make the switch. Finish the house cleaning, out yourself in a perfect position to build something, and shift to focus on that.

JMHO.
 
Why would any free agent with options sign with the Rangers? The team stinks. A free agent isn't changing the fortunes of the Rangers by himself. The last thing the Rangers need is more bad contracts.

Gorton needs to stay the course by breaking down the team some more. Accumulate more draft assets for 2020. TB needs to move the Callahan contract. The Rangers and TB have had discussions about Callahan. The Lightning didn't have any urgency to move that contract but they will with Point up for a new contract this summer. Callahan controls his situation with his 16 team trade list. The Rangers are on his list. Ottawa is another team capable of taking on a contract and really needs to add money to reach the floor. Callahan doesn't want to play there. TB's 1st in 2020 for the Rangers taking on the contract. Callahan can provide some leadership for the Rangers young guys. The Rangers trade him at the 2020 deadline for a 2nd or 3rd. Boyle got a 2nd.

The Rangers have cap space to assume a bad contract for a pick.

Trade Kreider at the draft.

Look into trading Zibanejad. I proposed Brassard for Zibanejad six months before the trade was made. Everyone said you're crazy. I may be crazy but I ain't dumb. That's a horrible trade. We can't trade Brass. Zibanejad stinks. If the Rangers could acquire a top 10 pick as part of the Zibanejad trade to select one of those American forwards in the draft, it would be worth it. The Rangers have two top picks in that scenario. Mika's value should be high. Career year. Very good contract. NMC kicks in this summer. He has no control until July 1.

Tkachuk wrecked them by himself. The Rangers need those type of players. Everything else will fall into place. They aren't winning anything without those players. We sit here and argue with each other everyday but the Rangers aren't going anywhere with this competitive nonsense.
 
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Why would any free agent with options sign with the Rangers? The team stinks. A free agent isn't changing the fortunes of the Rangers by himself. The last thing the Rangers need is more bad contracts.

Gorton needs to stay the course by breaking down the team some more. Accumulate more draft assets for 2020. TB needs to move the Callahan contract. The Rangers and TB have had discussions about Callahan. The Lightning didn't have any urgency to move that contract but they will with Point up for a new contract this summer. Callahan controls his situation with his 16 team trade list. The Rangers are on his list. Ottawa is another team capable of taking on a contract and really needs to add money to reach the floor. Callahan doesn't want to play there. TB's 1st in 2020 for the Rangers taking on the contract. Callahan can provide some leadership for the Rangers young guys. The Rangers trade him at the 2020 deadline for a 2nd or 3rd. Boyle got a 2nd.

The Rangers have cap space to assume a bad contract for a pick.

Trade Kreider at the draft.

Look into trading Zibanejad. I proposed Brassard for Zibanejad six months before the trade was made. Everyone said you're crazy. I may be crazy but I ain't dumb. That's a horrible trade. We can't trade Brass. Zibanejad stinks. If the Rangers could acquire a top 10 pick as part of the Zibanejad trade to select one of those American forwards in the draft, it would be worth it. The Rangers have two top picks in that scenario. Mika's value should be high. Career year. Very good contract. NMC kicks in this summer. He has no control until July 1.

Tkachuk wrecked them by himself. The Rangers need those type of players. Everything else will fall into place. They aren't winning anything without those players. We sit here and argue with each other everyday but the Rangers aren't going anywhere with this competitive nonsense.
I don't get your Zibenajad plan.
A team picking in the top 10 is basically at the same level we are. If Z can't pull us into the post season, why would another GM give up a top 10 pick for him on hopes he would somehow do it there? I could only see it working in a scenario where a team that is much better than us lucked into a pick that is not really in their range. Z could be a piece that solidifies an already pretty good roster. Otherwise, I don't see why that plan works out for anyone but us.
 
Carp is making a lot of sense here.

So it’s probably folly to judge Henrik Lundqvist, too, and I won’t.

But the fact is, backup Alexandar Georgiev has outplayed him lately while they have pretty much rotated starts — each playing 10 of the past 20 games, neither starting more than two in a row since Feb. 4.

Lundqvist has never been in such a rotation, at least not since he became the Rangers’ No. 1 goalie. He’s always been the alpha, his backup clearly the backup.

And it’s certainly admirable the way he’s taking his lumps because he wants to be part of the solution, knowing he can’t win consistently with this roster in front of him but hoping to help impart leadership and lessons as his team tries to figure it out during a drastic rebuild.

I just wonder what it’s going to look like going forward, what it will look like during the last two years of Lundqvist’s contract, when his team gets even younger – when maybe a playoff spot, but certainly not much more than that, can be in the Rangers’ sights.

And I just wonder how much of the job will be his given the way Georgiev has played and given that super-prospect Igor Shersterkin should land on North American soil, with an entry-level contract, by next training camp.

Lundqvist is 37. Who knows how Lundqvist’s role will look or how he will handle it.

How will he handle more nights like Saturday, when he and the overmatched Rangers had zero chance against the not-great but desperate Minnesota Wild, who won 5-2.

Look, Lundqvist made plenty of really good saves, as he almost always does. But he let in one – I’m not calling it a stinker, but it was a short-sider on which he lost his angle, or perhaps he cheated.

He made 40 or more saves once again, for the fifth time this season, the 33rdtime in his career. Eight of those have happened since the 2018 trade deadline. My God, it’s become a too-familiar theme these past two years, hasn’t it? He hasn’t had a shutout since Nov. 19, 2017.

The Rangers don’t score enough. And they don’t defend well at all. So their goalies have to be perfect. They’re not.

Lundqvist is not. For a long time, he was close to perfect when he didn’t need to be. Now, what’s next?

It's no time to judge Henrik Lundqvist, but it's only...

I know people love Lundqvist but truth is truth.

If you look at Henrik's stats, his save % has decreased and his GAA has increased.

He must really love living in New York because the Rangers aren't winning with him on the team. Nothing is going to happen over the next two seasons to change that.

You see him sitting on the bench when he isn't playing. He is a 37 year old goalie first ballot HHOF player playing on a rebuilding team which is awful.

Georgiev has outplayed him. Shestyorkin is coming over.

We know what should happen here.
 
Carp is making a lot of sense here.



It's no time to judge Henrik Lundqvist, but it's only...

I know people love Lundqvist but truth is truth.

If you look at Henrik's stats, his save % has decreased and his GAA has increased.

He must really love living in New York because the Rangers aren't winning with him on the team. Nothing is going to happen over the next two seasons to change that.

You see him sitting on the bench when he isn't playing. He is a 37 year old goalie first ballot HHOF player playing on a rebuilding team which is awful.

Georgiev has outplayed him. Shestyorkin is coming over.

We know what should happen here.

Next year they can handle Hank and then go up and down w Georgie and Sherts but after that are they carrying 3 in Hanks last year ? Doubt Sherts if performing well is gonna like hanging in the AHL again

I doubt Hank waives to go anywhere
 
Trade:
Kreider for a young player, prospect and mid 1st
Namestnikov for a couple of picks
Strome for a couple of picks
Shatty with retention and/or picks for whatever
Smith with retention and/or picks for whatever

Sign:
Curtis Lazar
Taro Hirose
Dylan McIlrath

Line-up:
Kravtsov-Ziba-Vesey
Buch-Chytil-Lazar
Hirose-Lias-Lemieux
Howden-Boo-Fast
Virta

Skjei-TDA
Hajak-Pionk
Staal-Gilmour
McIlrath

Hank
Geo

Plan:

-There would of course be some adds to the above lineup. The young player we get in the Kreider trade etc. But enter the season with roughly that roster.

-Have a lineup that is fast, hard working and very assertive.

Lazar is in the Lemieux mold. Very good skater, a little too heavy, but not without talent. I think there would be a comfortable atmosphere around the above team, even if it has its struggles. Wide speculation that Calgary won’t qualify him, they are too deep. Ottawa rushed Lazar really bad, he has done well in the AHL lately.

Hirose has those fantastic wheels.

Kravtsov is ready, no doubt. Will fit in great with Ziba. Not be a star from the drop of the puck, but he can play 15 minutes a night.

-Gorton will have:
(a) 20-30m of cap space.
(b) all the picks made the last years. Probably 9 recent 1st rounders. A bunch of 2-3rd picks.
(c) a bunch of young — NHLers — ie kids who’s value will go up a lot instantly when they get to play in the NHL.

From like August 1st, focus should be 100% on improving the on ice product. Build a team. Getting Panarin or Karlsson won’t be good value deals. Panarin was traded for Saad, Karlsson for some picks and b tier players. The next time trades like that is made, Gorton should be in on them.

Sure it would seem like we would get a higher pick in 2020 too. But the process cannot be of tearing down the team anymore, it’s time to make the switch. Finish the house cleaning, out yourself in a perfect position to build something, and shift to focus on that.

JMHO.

Hirose signed with Detroit last week if I remember correctly.
 
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Nico Sturm is someone to keep an eye on I am told. Many bidders

May aswell take a shot at these guys

So next year UFAs are Names and Vesey ... may aswell keep till the deadline Atleast cause they are only getting a 2nd back at most likely ... buy more time for kids

The D is just bad .... it’s two years of Shatty , Staal , Smith then pray Miller , Lundqvist , Lindgren , Hajek don’t stink
 
Yes Hank is the last from the past that will be tough to blast. Only 2 years left and does he seek another contract and if so he needs to play to show his worth. Can he show his stuff with this lineup and the teams goalie goals. It usually doesn't end pretty and with Dolan on Hanks side . Maybe we could get lucky and Dolan sells team within the next 2 years and new ownership can cut umbilical cord and move on.
 
Carp is making a lot of sense here.



It's no time to judge Henrik Lundqvist, but it's only...

I know people love Lundqvist but truth is truth.

If you look at Henrik's stats, his save % has decreased and his GAA has increased.

He must really love living in New York because the Rangers aren't winning with him on the team. Nothing is going to happen over the next two seasons to change that.

You see him sitting on the bench when he isn't playing. He is a 37 year old goalie first ballot HHOF player playing on a rebuilding team which is awful.

Georgiev has outplayed him. Shestyorkin is coming over.

We know what should happen here.

I'm all for Henrik playing less games but:

A.) Let's take a step back before anointing a guy that's played 37 NHL games in his career as THE starter or even as an NHL starter along with a guy that's never played an NHL game.

B.) Henrik and Georgiev have stats that are pretty much equal. Georgiev has been better lately, but, if anything, Hank has the better overall stats this year and the fact that they are starkly similar really reflects on the dumpster fire playing in front of them and less on the goalies.

C.) The "truth" is that you want to trade everyone 25 & over. Zibanejad, Kreider, etc... A young team needs veteran leadership and a guy like Lundqvist, even if he's the backup, is a great guy to have in the room.
 
I was on board with signing Kreider but he’s played like crap since Zucc was traded. he is a passenger not a driver. Names has been better than him since the deadline.

I know it is nostalgia but as mentioned the top free agents aren’t going to sign for next year unless it’s going to be for insane money. If we move into the top 2 picks and gorts didn’t burn a bridge I would take back Zucc on a 3 year deal, he can name his price. Name him captain.

Trade Kreider and Smith (I don’t think any of the other guys are moveable) and hope that krav and kappo make an impact this year. Hajek slides into smiths role and hopefully excels. Maybe we are a bubble team but we’ve picked up a ton of assets in the process.
 
I was on board with signing Kreider but he’s played like crap since Zucc was traded. he is a passenger not a driver. Names has been better than him since the deadline.

I know it is nostalgia but as mentioned the top free agents aren’t going to sign for next year unless it’s going to be for insane money. If we move into the top 2 picks and gorts didn’t burn a bridge I would take back Zucc on a 3 year deal, he can name his price. Name him captain.

Trade Kreider and Smith (I don’t think any of the other guys are moveable) and hope that krav and kappo make an impact this year. Hajek slides into smiths role and hopefully excels. Maybe we are a bubble team but we’ve picked up a ton of assets in the process.

No on all fronts.

We don't need another expensive, aging player. Let him re-sign in Dallas.
 
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Hank’s not going anywhere for two more seasons. Let him finish out his 16 year run and move on. Summer of 2021 is where it’ll be very interesting. Over $25M coming off the books, get past the expansion draft and set the team up for the next 5 years. The ‘18 & ‘19 first rounders should all be in the lineup or close to.
 
I was on board with signing Kreider but he’s played like crap since Zucc was traded. he is a passenger not a driver. Names has been better than him since the deadline.

I know it is nostalgia but as mentioned the top free agents aren’t going to sign for next year unless it’s going to be for insane money. If we move into the top 2 picks and gorts didn’t burn a bridge I would take back Zucc on a 3 year deal, he can name his price. Name him captain.

Trade Kreider and Smith (I don’t think any of the other guys are moveable) and hope that krav and kappo make an impact this year. Hajek slides into smiths role and hopefully excels. Maybe we are a bubble team but we’ve picked up a ton of assets in the process.

This is so backwards. I can actually see an argument for keeping Kreider, though I would prefer we move him at the draft. But if we move Kreider, there is absolutely no justification for bringing back Zucc.

Moving Kreider means we are completely burning it down next season. Zucc will be on year older and returning from injury. We will be a bottom of the league. By the time we can compete, Zucc will be overpaid and old. Also, I highly doubt he takes a 3 year deal seeing as this is his last big contract.
 
Hank will determine what he wants to do. Our thoughts don't really matter and frankly neither do the Rangers brass. If he asks for a trade, he will be granted one. If he asks to stay, he will be allowed to do so. The Rangers are handling this situation with class and I commend them. It's clear they don't want another Leetch situation.
 
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