Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

[mas0764]

They are in the midst of fighting for a playoff spot, currently in the last wildcard position and have plenty of money to re-sign him since Kane is no longer on the books. I have to agree with you here.

At least that would take that temptation to overpay off the table.

 

[mas0764]

Just throwing this out there, Nils is better than people think.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

I seem to remember that team losing in the Stanley Cup Final.

We lost by 3 goals!!! That trade for MSL you do over and over again

 

[McRanger92]

I think Pavelski is too similar to Kreider to make a difference to us.

I fail to see how having a guy similar to Kreider on a different line is a bad thing. And Pavelski was great possession numbers too, if you’re into that stuff

 

[NYR Viper]

Now if someone wanted to sell me on The Rangers bringing in Pavelski in the off-season on a 2 year deal as a RWer who can take some faceoffs, while trading Kreider to loosen the cap crunch a bit? I could see the benefit there for the simple fact that Pavelski can do what Kreider's role is on the PP and it alleviates a LWer on the roster. Better allocation of funds.

I still wouldn't love the rental cost for him though

 

[McRanger92]

They are in the midst of fighting for a playoff spot, currently in the last wildcard position and have plenty of money to re-sign him since Kane is no longer on the books. I have to agree with you here.

I think part of the Hertl situation is whether or not he wants to commit to SJ. If he’s not interested in signing long term they have to move him

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

So none of it was worth it?

It was worth every minute, we lost by a stinking 3 goals to hoisting the cup

 

[KingDeathMetal]

No telling what the front office might do, but I'm diametrically opposed. IMO this MAYBE gets NYR to the Semis, rentals walk because we can't fit them under the cap and now the cupboard is bare. To me it's a nightmare scenario. I'm completely opposed to spending good assets on rentals this year. We shall see though.

We're already good enough to make the semis with the current roster. But we have enough cap space to take on expirings and theoretically make ourselves good enough to compete for the Cup. We don't have many holes, but there are a couple of glaring ones and having no competent 3C is a BIG one.

I didn't come into this year wanting us to GO FOR IT, but honestly, if not now, when? We will never again have this combination of cap space at the deadline plus star players all in their primes at once. By the time Laf and Kakko become capable of matching Zib/Panarin/Strome levels of production, IF that even happens and it's a big if...those other players will likely be in decline. We have no center depth in our prospect pool and will be cap strapped for years.

There's a really good argument to be made that this year will be our best opportunity, and this season plus the next two years will be our best window.

We don't have to "empty the cupboard" to be a contender this year. We're talking about a couple of players who might cost a 2nd or a 2nd and 3rd to plug middle six RW and LD slots, and a big time 3C acquisition that'll be a 1st and a prospect. We can live with that.

 

[mas0764]

I fail to see how having a guy similar to Kreider on a different line is a bad thing. And Pavelski was great possession numbers too, if you’re into that stuff

Maybe, I'm skeptical of adding another guy whose main skills are net front, especially when it looks like Kakko needs to be used more along those lines as well.

 

[mas0764]

We lost by 3 goals!!! That trade for MSL you do over and over again

If I knew in advance that I would lose the Stanley Cup by 3 goals and then the Conference Finals the following year, I would never make that trade for St. Louis.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

If I knew in advance that I would lose the Stanley Cup by 3 goals and then the Conference Finals the following year, I would never make that trade for St. Louis.

If you know in advance that MSL is the difference between us getting to the finals or getting smoked in the semis, you do that deal all day.

When you know in advance that being pinned in our own zone for entire third periods cost us the finals, you get Girardi the F off the first pair.

 

[McRanger92]

We're already good enough to make the semis with the current roster. But we have enough cap space to take on expirings and theoretically make ourselves good enough to compete for the Cup. We don't have many holes, but there are a couple of glaring ones and having no competent 3C is a BIG one.

I didn't come into this year wanting us to GO FOR IT, but honestly, if not now, when? We will never again have this combination of cap space at the deadline plus star players all in their primes at once. By the time Laf and Kakko become capable of matching Zib/Panarin/Strome levels of production, IF that even happens and it's a big if...those other players will likely be in decline. We have no center depth in our prospect pool and will be cap strapped for years.

There's a really good argument to be made that this year will be our best opportunity, and this season plus the next two years will be our best window.

We don't have to "empty the cupboard" to be a contender this year. We're talking about a couple of players who might cost a 2nd or a 2nd and 3rd to plug middle six RW and LD slots, and a big time 3C acquisition that'll be a 1st and a prospect. We can live with that.

I think the Rangers use a couple high draft picks and Kravtsov to make the additions they need. Lesser prospects like Robertson/Pajuniemi or young players like gauthier/Hajek could be used to sweeten any moves. I don’t see Lundkvist/Jones going unless it’s for a player with term. Schneider/Othmann untouchable

 

[mas0764]

The whole spend lavishly to rent versus continue to build a long term contender debate comes down to whether you believe this team has a good chance to win it all, really, or whether they'd have a good chance after adding.

I don't and neither do most national sources. I tend to think we are overestimating this team. The team of course is going to view it's chances in a positive light, so I'm not really concerned with "the team is going to do X," as any sort of justification as to whether it's a good idea or not.

 

[mas0764]

I think the Rangers use a couple high draft picks and Kravtsov to make the additions they need. Lesser prospects like Robertson/Pajuniemi or young players like gauthier/Hajek could be used to sweeten any moves. I don’t see Lundkvist/Jones going unless it’s for a player with term. Schneider/Othmann untouchable

Robertson isn't really a lesser prospect on par with Panjuniemi though.

 

[mas0764]

If you know in advance that MSL is the difference between us getting to the finals or getting smoked in the semis, you do that deal all day.

No, I don't.

If I knew in advance with a crystal ball that I was not going to win the Cup that year (yet somehow under this hypothetical I can't see the rest of the future), there's no way I trade a first for a rental.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

No, I don't.

If I knew in advance with a crystal ball that I was not going to win the Cup that year (yet somehow under this hypothetical I can't see the rest of the future), there's no way I trade a first for a rental.

So you'd rather not have a couple of sweet runs that build fond memories, including an awesome cinderella run to the Cup, just to roll the dice on a low first rounder that prob turns out to be a disappointment? Yeah, I'm not there.

 

[mas0764]

Today's betting odds for winning just the Eastern Conference... not good.

Eastern Conference winner

Lightning	+360
Maple Leafs	+375
Panthers	+450
Hurricanes	+600
Penguins	+800
Bruins	+900
Capitals	+900
Rangers	+900

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[KingDeathMetal]

The whole spend lavishly to rent versus continue to build a long term contender debate comes down to whether you believe this team has a good chance to win it all, really, or whether they'd have a good chance after adding.

I don't and neither do most national sources. I tend to think we are overestimating this team. The team of course is going to view it's chances in a positive light, so I'm not really concerned with "the team is going to do X," as any sort of justification as to whether it's a good idea or not.

Well that's the point, right? We're not good enough right now. But we're also not that many players away from being good enough. Hence, why we need to add players. There is no long term contention in our future if we don't have replacements 4-5 years from now for Panarin, Zib, Kreider, Strome, etc. Our window of contention might not be any wider than the next few years.

We can do our best to maximize the team we have right now, without mortgaging the future. I can't stress enough that this is the ONLY year in the foreseeable future that this team will have $10m+ to play with at the deadline. To not take advantage of that is malpractice.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Today's betting odds for winning just the Eastern Conference... not good.

Eastern Conference winner

Lightning	+360
Maple Leafs	+375
Panthers	+450
Hurricanes	+600
Penguins	+800
Bruins	+900
Capitals	+900
Rangers	+900

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Damn, better pack it in this season then.

 

[mas0764]

So you'd rather not have a couple of sweet runs that build fond memories, including an awesome cinderella run to the Cup, just to roll the dice on a low first rounder that prob turns out to be a disappointment? Yeah, I'm not there.

The first rounder can be parlayed into other things that have more long term value than the rental which just ends in a loss. It could be traded for a young established middle sixer, or packaged with other prospects for a younger star, etc.

I'm not saying it must be used on an 18 year old roll of the dice forever, but there is something inherent about the value of a rental in that expires after (generally) just 1 playoff run that makes it so valueless if you don't win.

I'll create way more memories stockpiling assets and building a long term contender that eschews renting. Then I'll have a ten year period of going deep into the playoffs without ever needing to rent.

 

[mas0764]

Well that's the point, right? We're not good enough right now. But we're also not that many players away from being good enough. Hence, why we need to add players. There is no long term contention in our future if we don't have replacements 4-5 years from now for Panarin, Zib, Kreider, Strome, etc. Our window of contention might not be any wider than the next few years.

We can do our best to maximize the team we have right now, without mortgaging the future. I can't stress enough that this is the ONLY year in the foreseeable future that this team will have $10m+ to play with at the deadline. To not take advantage of that is malpractice.

I don't agree at all with the $10m bit being malpractice. It's only malpractice if you can use it for something that helps you win this year, but again, if you don't see a realistic path to that, then there are actually other BETTER uses of that cap space.

As others have pointed out, the better use might be to help Western Conference teams facilitate trades by taking on some of the salary in exchange for a pick. Could you get a first by helping a middle of the West team take on a big contract? That would be a coup.

 

[Alluckks]

Lundkvist + 2022 1st + Conditional 2023 2nd* (Rangers make ECF this year or next and it becomes a 1st) for Chychrun
Kravstov for Lehkonen + 2022 2nd

Kreider Zib Chytil
Panarin Strome Kakko
Laf Goodrow Lehk
Hunt Rooney Goodrow

Chych Fox
Miller Trouba
Lindgren Schneider


Nemeth moved in offseason; Lindgren could end up being dealt in offseason for cap as well

 

[KingDeathMetal]

When people say the Rangers aren't good enough to contend, they're mostly referring to our crappy shot suppression. To which my answer is: Igor is an incredible equalizer, just like Hank was. People look at 5v5 data like special teams and goaltending don't contribute to the final score. We have some excellent special teams and the best goalie in the league, except unlike the 2014 and 2015 teams, the '22 Rangers also have Panarin, a legitimate Top 15 Center, a very good 2C, Kreider on pace for 50 goals, the best top defense pairing in the league.

So yeah, considering our equalizers, I think adding a major threat at 3C as a rental and a couple other smaller but reliable pieces would boost our 5v5 numbers and make us a real threat. If it costs us a low first rounder, a couple of 2nd rounders and one prospect to get those few pieces in place, I'm all for it. Better than being mediocre for a few years so we could draft a kid in 2022 who MIGHT be good in 6-7 years! HOORAY!

 

[KingDeathMetal]

I don't agree at all with the $10m bit being malpractice. It's only malpractice if you can use it for something that helps you win this year, but again, if you don't see a realistic path to that, then there are actually other BETTER uses of that cap space.

As others have pointed out, the better use might be to help Western Conference teams facilitate trades by taking on some of the salary in exchange for a pick. Could you get a first by helping a middle of the West team take on a big contract? That would be a coup.

But why do we need a pick? We have prospects. We've been stockpiling picks for years. What we need are: young players who are ready to play NOW, and/or rentals who can help us win now.

The Rangers have a very realistic path to contention this year. The fact that we are a borderline Top 5 team in the league without a competent 3C or third pairing LD is actually a great sign. There really isn't much we need to add to have a realistic chance. There are also benefits to adding a big name rental to pair with Laf on the third line. It could wind up unlocking his game.

 

[bhamill]

We're already good enough to make the semis with the current roster. But we have enough cap space to take on expirings and theoretically make ourselves good enough to compete for the Cup. We don't have many holes, but there are a couple of glaring ones and having no competent 3C is a BIG one.

I didn't come into this year wanting us to GO FOR IT, but honestly, if not now, when? We will never again have this combination of cap space at the deadline plus star players all in their primes at once. By the time Laf and Kakko become capable of matching Zib/Panarin/Strome levels of production, IF that even happens and it's a big if...those other players will likely be in decline. We have no center depth in our prospect pool and will be cap strapped for years.

There's a really good argument to be made that this year will be our best opportunity, and this season plus the next two years will be our best window.

We don't have to "empty the cupboard" to be a contender this year. We're talking about a couple of players who might cost a 2nd or a 2nd and 3rd to plug middle six RW and LD slots, and a big time 3C acquisition that'll be a 1st and a prospect. We can live with that.

I disagree, completely, that we are a good bet to make the semis as is. Or that this year is anywhere NEAR our best opportunity, I think not next but the season after we should be thinking "go for it." Most likely.
I guess it depends which "prospect," but I don't think we are getting players that significantly improve this team as cheaply as you seem to think.
Anyway, I don't begrudge you your take, I just have a completely different one. We will have to wait and see.