Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

[Savant]

I have no idea, players become available all the time and there are players that are available right now that nobody even knows about. It changes all the time. JT Miller isn't a long term solution for this team. The Rangers aren't winning the cup this year, so trading their best prospect right now for him isn't going to help them be succesful for the long haul, which is what they want. Add to that Edge's earlier post about the situation, as well as Seravelli wondering if the Rangers would even give up big prospects for him, and I think it's clear the Rangers aren't interested in parting with Othman or any of their big prospects for him anyway.

Teams are never anxious to give centers away. It is not that easy.

 

[bleedblue94]

I want Drury to trade the BFF

I've been fine with that for awhile, but given the current options that may not be the best course this season. Self rent him and try to fix the 3c issue with a quality option that may be able to slot as the 2c next year

 

[bleedblue94]

I'm ok with that. Players that aren't playing the right way should be given that. I have no idea why K'Andre was in the lineup the game after two games of bad giveaways. He should have sat.

But it's more than that. A coach SHOULD be able to get through to his players. That is literally his job. If he can't, like I said, maybe it's the wrong two coaches.

You may be, but it is rare than any organization is going to publicly chastise its stars, and a benching is exactly that. I know it can happen, but it has become more and more rare as players continue to gain more power in sports.

As for KAM, he is a kid and sometimes kids need to play through their struggles. This whole board killed Quinn bc of how he treated kakko and then that kakko said he felt afraid to make mistakes bc he would be benched. KAM is still a child but in a man's body and he is learning. He will get plenty of rope here to learn from mistakes.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

You may be, but it is rare than any organization is going to publicly chastise its stars, and a benching is exactly that. I know it can happen, but it has become more and more rare as players continue to gain more power in sports...

Ok, so then I guess we just spin our wheels. Or Gallant becomes a better coach for this team and gets his players playing the right way. Or we get rid of the players. Seems like of those three options the second one would be the best.

 

[bleedblue94]

Ok, so then I guess we just spin our wheels. Or Gallant becomes a better coach for this team and gets his players playing the right way. Or we get rid of the players. Seems like of those three options the second one would be the best.

Spinning our tires to a top 5 spot in the league...

I think Gallant has done a damn fine job with the roster he has. Christ it is like this board doesnt even consider the standings and the fact the team continues to win games, yet they are lacking a top 6 winger, a legit 3c, and have played with 5 competent defenseman this year

 

[duhmetreE]

Is Auston Matthews even a blip on the radar?

Really curious to see how that unfolds. Brian Burke was absolutely certain Auston Matthews would dip out once he became a UFA.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Not according to Pronman (and others that I can’t remember), and it’s not exactly a secret that his skating is an issue any how.

Do you have a link to that? I don't remember seeing Pronman's comments.

I agree his skating needs work, but it’s also known that it’s something he’s been consistently working on with a power skating coach.

 

[NYR Viper]

It would seem that finding a 3rd player for that line who likes to shoot the puck and doesn't need it all that much would be ideal. A volume shooter.

I really don't mind Strome being kept, and he has improved as a player even this season however, ideally, I would like to see him at wing opposite Panarin although if they can find the right winger that fits that would work too. I think it's easy to think that another player will just have instant chemistry with Panarin because of who he is but that's not necessarily the case. At around $5m per season, I am onboard with retaining him as long as the trade protection isn't severe.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I think Gallant has done a damn fine job with the roster he has. Christ it is like this board doesnt even consider the standings and the fact the team continues to win games, yet they are lacking a top 6 winger, a legit 3c, and have played with 5 competent defenseman this year

I consider the standings, and I consider that the Rangers are where they are because 16 out of 22 wins were against the lesser teams in the league. They continue to win games against the lesser teams, but they are also 9-7-1 against the better teams, so they don't consistently beat them, and when they do, its almost always by the skin of their teeth and Igor playing out of his mind. The Rangers are a bad week from being a wild card team, so it's not like they are running away with the division or anything. This is the roughest stretch of the Rangers season these next two weeks before the break and will define the Rangers season - can they compete with the big boys or are they gonna fold?

They have been a bad 5v5 team all season - that's on coaching, and that's a big reason why they struggle to compete with those better teams. That's more than player personnel, that's strategy and coaching. The Rangers have had plenty of talent in their lineup. They play the way they are coached.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

He has come in talks, but isn't at the top of their list.

Right now I'd say the odds of him coming back aren't favorable, primarily based on asking price, but it's still on the table.

Would there be anything else that you would be willing to share at the present? I think its fair to assume we won’t have our first round pick this summer. There seems to be mutual interest with Hertl, and Lehkonen has come up as well.

 

[bleedblue94]

Is Auston Matthews even a blip on the radar?

Really curious to see how that unfolds. Brian Burke was absolutely certain Auston Matthews would dip out once he became a UFA.

Realistically the leafs should trade him this winter, especially if they falter again. He will have 2 years on his deal and has a nmc in the final year. He would hold the hammer on everything as a pending 26 year old ufa that is going to walk that you cant even trade.

That contract and the context of it, it has to be one of the worst contracts I have ever seen. Matthews got EVERYTHING: the term he wanted, the money he wanted, the power he wanted. It was like the leafs gave him a blank sheet to write his own terms with no negotiating.

 

[bhamill]

Miller is basically PPG since he has been in Vancouver. Who is this younger long term center that teams are willing to give up on? Closest thing to that was Eichel. Who else are these teams so anxious to move? It is rare to get good value on a young center trading a winger, especially in juniors, as a centerpiece. Who is this player?

The flaw in this thinking is the "ready to give up on" portion. Teams trade plenty of players they like very much... for the right deal.
The concept here is the NYR should "overpay" from a position of surplus (D prospects) to address the position of need (young #2 or better center).
Rentals are a waste for this team, IMO. As far as Vegas odds on winning the Cup the NYR are not a top 5 or top 7 team, they are 14th. I use the odds makers because their only fealty is to MONEY. There is no emotional attachment to the team.

 

[bleedblue94]

I consider the standings, and I consider that the Rangers are where they are because 16 out of 22 wins were against the lesser teams in the league. They continue to win games against the lesser teams, but they are also 9-7-1 against the better teams, so they don't consistently beat them, and when they do, its almost always by the skin of their teeth and Igor playing out of his mind. The Rangers are a bad week from being a wild card team, so it's not like they are running away with the division or anything. This is the roughest stretch of the Rangers season these next two weeks before the break and will define the Rangers season - can they compete with the big boys or are they gonna fold?

They have been a bad 5v5 team all season - that's on coaching, and that's a big reason why they struggle to compete with those better teams. That's more than player personnel, that's strategy and coaching. The Rangers have had plenty of talent in their lineup. They play the way they are coached.

So the fact is that they are indeed over .500 against the better teams??

Making a comment like a bad week away from being a wildcard team is so hyperbolic, EVERY TEAM is an oiler's skid away from being in a different situation.

Even if they struggle the next two weeks the idea is to identify exactly what the proper adjustments are and then act accordingly. This roster still doesnt know if goodrow is a 3c or a 4th line wing, or is chytil out of here, a 3c (nope) or a fit as a top 6 winger.

Anyone who thinks they aren't making some sort of effort to take a run this year is kind of out of touch with the signs the org has shown the last 10 months. Now you can argue if that is the right move, but that wont change what they are doing.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

So the fact is that they are indeed over .500 against the better teams??

Making a comment like a bad week away from being a wildcard team is so hyperbolic, EVERY TEAM is an oiler's skid away from being in a different situation.

Even if they struggle the next two weeks the idea is to identify exactly what the proper adjustments are and then act accordingly. This roster still doesnt know if goodrow is a 3c or a 4th line wing, or is chytil out of here, a 3c (nope) or a fit as a top 6 winger.

Anyone who thinks they aren't making some sort of effort to take a run this year is kind of out of touch with the signs the org has shown the last 10 months. Now you can argue if that is the right move, but that wont change what they are doing.

They are one game over .500. That's not impressive to me. It's more likely than not that by saturday morning they are below it.

Yes, every team could be that, but there are teams that are way more likely to have that happen. A team that can't score 5v5 is more likely to be dropping in the standings than a team that can.

We also don't need the next two weeks to identify the adjustments that need to be made. It's game 40, if they don't know by now, they never will - it's evident.

 

[Alluckks]

Spinning our tires to a top 5 spot in the league...

I think Gallant has done a damn fine job with the roster he has. Christ it is like this board doesnt even consider the standings and the fact the team continues to win games, yet they are lacking a top 6 winger, a legit 3c, and have played with 5 competent defenseman this year

The team has made a clear step up as our window to compete for a cup truly opens. Being as high as we are midway through a season is a very encouraging next step of the full process here.

 

[bleedblue94]

The flaw in this thinking is the "ready to give up on" portion. Teams trade plenty of players they like very much... for the right deal.
The concept here is the NYR should "overpay" from a position of surplus (D prospects) to address the position of need (young #2 or better center).
Rentals are a waste for this team, IMO. As far as Vegas odds on winning the Cup the NYR are not a top 5 or top 7 team, they are 14th. I use the odds makers because their only fealty is to MONEY. There is no emotional attachment to the team.

Can you post the same odds source info for their projections of cup winners for the past 5 years?

 

[Savant]

Do you have a link to that? I don't remember seeing Pronman's comments.

I agree his skating needs work, but it’s also known that it’s something he’s been consistently working on with a power skating coach.

Was in the athletic and also said it in a podcast for the athletic before juniors. That’s all I’ve got at the moment.

 

[HonestGabe]

Here's a name that's worth keeping an eye on:

Andrew Copp - UFA after the season. Winnipeg could fall out of it.

He plays all three positions, is good on both sides of the ice and could be a good fit alongside Lafreniere and Goodrow to form a great line with some bite. Excellent on draws, plays PP and PK. Pretty good possession metrics as well.

 

[Savant]

The flaw in this thinking is the "ready to give up on" portion. Teams trade plenty of players they like very much... for the right deal.
The concept here is the NYR should "overpay" from a position of surplus (D prospects) to address the position of need (young #2 or better center).
Rentals are a waste for this team, IMO. As far as Vegas odds on winning the Cup the NYR are not a top 5 or top 7 team, they are 14th. I use the odds makers because their only fealty is to MONEY. There is no emotional attachment to the team.

Miller is not a rental.

Also if it was easy to get centers, the Ranger would have gotten centers by now. If you don’t draft them they are impossible to get at good value. If I was the team with the center, in your scenario, I’d rather keep the center.

 

[rangers1314]

Today on Mareks radio show, Friedman ties chychrun to NYR. Says Columbus is also in.

LA, Ducks, STL, Florida, NYI as well.

 

[HonestGabe]

Delete

 

[bleedblue94]

They are one game over .500. That's not impressive to me. It's more likely than not that by saturday morning they are below it.

Yes, every team could be that, but there are teams that are way more likely to have that happen. A team that can't score 5v5 is more likely to be dropping in the standings than a team that can.

We also don't need the next two weeks to identify the adjustments that need to be made. It's game 40, if they don't know by now, they never will - it's evident.

you just said 9-7-1, that would mean 2 games over .500, we dont act like otl count against .500 standings in normal times so lets not cherry pick it here.

And if they were 7-9-1 it would be talked about how they cant beat any good teams, so let's not act like the 9 wins are insignificant, especially when how many of those games came with Igor out?

You said:
This is the roughest stretch of the Rangers season these next two weeks before the break and will define the Rangers season - can they compete with the big boys or are they gonna fold?

So based on that you are going to determine which of these players and in what capacity they can "play with the big boys or fold." Can chytil be an effective

Winger for the step brothers against good teams? we dont know that right now.

Is Goodrow an effective enough 3c for this team with presumably laf on one of his wings against those good teams? we dont know that right now

You learn more about a team through every test they come upon. A couple weeks ago when the lost 3 in 4 people around here were waiting for the wheels to fall off, since then they are 7 and 4.

If they lose to Toronto and Carolina than the conversation changes, but let's let them play those games first.

 

[bleedblue94]

Today on Mareks radio show, Friedman ties chychrun to NYR. Says Columbus is also in.

LA, Ducks, STL, Florida, NYI as well.

The rangers are going to be tied to EVERYONE bc they have cap space, picks, prospects, and they are the Rangers so it drives up interest.

 

[bhamill]

Can you post the same odds source info for their projections of cup winners for the past 5 years?

Probably, but I really don't care to. I have no need to convince you to have the same opinion as me, just giving MINE. If you want to convince me that Vegas odds are a shitty measure, you can go ahead and do the digging. Have fun!

Miller is not a rental.

Also if it was easy to get centers, the Ranger would have gotten centers by now. If you don’t draft them they are impossible to get at good value. If I was the team with the center, in your scenario, I’d rather keep the center.

Pretty sure I did not say Miller was a rental.
I also didn't say it was EASY to get centers, hence "overpay." I said the concept is that the NYR should deal from a position of surplus to get one. Maybe we aren't eager to overpay, or maybe other teams want MORE of an overpay than management has offered so far.

Anybody else got any Strawmen they want to march into the discussion? Hahaha.

 

[haohmaru]

If the Rangers are pursuing JT Miller as something longer than the term on his contract then it all makes A LOT of sense particularly of Vancouver retains 50% of his $ next year (effectively making Ryan Strome expendable and cap hell lessened by quite a bit).

Something like Lundqvist, Chytil, and a 1st or a 2022 2nd & 4th. Say what you want but the guy has great possession numbers, decent FO %, top 20 in points, etc... I wouldn't be against it and he would make the team immediately better.