Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

[McRanger92]

Right now that elite talent is not making up for the rest of the roster, nor are they making up for how this team strategizes and is deployed, which is why the team has to constantly rely on Igor and the Power Play to steal games. So it's really not that different.

Gallant's lineup decisions leave a lot to be desired but I think his credibility has done a lot of intangible good for the locker room. I'm of the opinion that the teams real issue is not shooting the puck enough. I honestly think the day it clicks for them that "hey, maybe we shouldnt try to pass the puck into the net" they will take off. It starts with Fox & Panarin and they are too good not to eventually realize that.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't want to hoard those pieces--I just want to use them to address a long term issue (high end center prospect, high end RW prospect). Even if the 1st is late, there's something about including a 1st rounder in the package that "two second rounders" doesn't accomplish. Teams just want to be seen picking someone on day one, I guess, haha. We have enough high end pieces that I honestly think the team could trade into the top 10 (top 5 if the right trade partner ends up there). We have a lot of NHL ready pieces that could make for a very attractive offer. Alternatively, we could target other team's prospect pools, but the draft pick option is more likely IMO (all teams fall in love with their prospects once made).

You make some valid points, but i just dont believe adding a center in the draft is Drury's priority. I think they have earmarked enough money to add 1 more long term forward contract in the near term, whether it be Strome or someone comparable.

Im sure they were hoping Chytil would make a jump and solve the 2C issue, but hes clearly regressed and may not even be a C. Its hard to develop top 6 centers and the path of least resistance is to add one that is already there. They've got the pieces to do so.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I get the logic and it's a good point, but I'm less concerned about that with this group. Most of the vets on this roster are here for the long haul (all of them signed for 4+ years after this one). The only exception is Strome. And as I said in another post, I'd rather hold on to the first rounder to use it as part of a draft-day trade. If we can move up far enough, that player would be ready to contribute far earlier than 4-5 years (also, who even knows with these kids anymore. Who would have thought that Schneider would have been playing with the team this soon. Cuylle could have played in Hartford, too, had the rules permitted it. They seem to be advancing more quickly than they did 5 or 10 years ago).

Yeah I probably should've typed 3-4 years, but you're correct, they might be ready sooner. However my point stands, draft picks are magic beans which won't help this years' team achieve a deep playoff run. I'm not advocating to sell the farm, push our chips to the center & go all in. Strategic adds, upgrading areas of weakness, monetizing our significant cap space is a must.

If a guy like JT Miller becomes available, we should be in on it if the hypothetical cost is Kravtsov(who most likely is never playing a game for us) & our first rounder. I would even add one of Jones/Nils to get a deal done, but then I would demand Vancouver retain 50% of Miller's cap hit. Schneider is a non starter & I hang up the phone if that's the ask.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think another thing being overlooked when posters talk about trading for futures in the midst of a season like this is how you explain that to the veterans in the locker room who are trying to win now. There's zero excuse for leaving basically unlimited cap space at the deadline when you have an overabundance of prospects who many most likely will never contribute here on the NHL level.

At some point, maybe not during this season & hopefully not for pure rentals, one or more of Jones/Nils//Robertson/Lindgren is going to get moved out in a deal. It's a simple numbers game, there's just not enough spots for all these kids. Additionally, if we have to sacrifice a 1st rounder this year, so be it. The kid picked in the draft realistically won't be ready to contribute in 4-5 years as a late first rounder. Plus we've shown just how easy it is to obtain first round picks if we need to move a vet out in 2-3 years.

I think you could have just really stopped at the bolded.

I'll say this - Special teams and goaltending can 10000000000000% win you a series against a superior opponent. We see it every single year. It happens multiple times in nearly every single playoff season.

It is going to be enough to carry you through the playoffs? Almost definitely no. But as it stands they're a top 2-3 team in the division and how they've gotten there is really irrelevant. They'll continue to be strong where they're strong, the focus should be on bringing up where they suck.

And no, they don't need to sell the farm to do that. They'll probably have to move a few pieces that you'd rather not move but hey, so will a bunch of other teams that will make trades in the coming months.

 

[jay from jersey]

Funnily enough, that was the exact line a bunch of folks had on JT Miller, and now half the boards want to sacrifice multiple high end assets to buy him back. Funny, that. Also, Buchnevich, at the same age, got 15 minutes per game and ample power play time (where he scored 17 of his 43 points). Every time Chytil has gotten similar usage, he produces. Just out of curiosity--you and KB and a few others have been on a seeming crusade to get rid of this kid for a while now. If he IS moved, and is given an actual extended top six opportunity with his new team, and turns into a legit top six player like several of us believe he can, will you eat the crow?




This is ridiculous. Chytil was one of two players who actually looked good in the three game play in (the other being Kakko).

chytil might be similar to miller in the regard that he might need to get traded before he ever takes that next step in his development to become a consistent top/ middle six point producer.
He’s still young, so there’s def still more developing he has to do, but with Zibby locked up, and NYR most likely looking for a 2C in the offseason via trade, chytil might not be in the teams long, even mid range planning.
It doesn’t help that he appeared to have virtually no chemistry with panarin when he’s played center with him.
Vally brought up some valid point. Maybe he is just better off with the skillset/vision he has at the wing rather then having the responsibilities of being a center.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

For all the Yanni Gourde dreamer’s.
Signed for three more years after this one for 5.167M stating with a modified NMC next season.

 

[jay from jersey]

In 2024 the Rangers core that they have a f*** ton of money locked up in will be two years older and two years potentially worse

Get a few rentals at the deadline, hope Igor gets hot and let the chips fall where they may this year

This would make the most sense. Don’t go crazy. But if Kravtsov+2nd Or evening the late 1st can land 1-2 solid upgrades I’m not sure that ruins the rebuild.....
The odds of kravy ever playing for this team again remain a long shot. His value might not get higher then it currently is if he has a bad year in the KHL next year.
I’d rather trade an asset with upside that has little chance of rejoining this team for a 3rd time rather then a Lundkvist/Jones/Robertson.
I’d rather deal krav before our 1st this season tbh...

 

[smoneil]

chytil might be similar to miller in the regard that he might need to get traded before he ever takes that next step in his development to become a consistent top/ middle six point producer.
He’s still young, so there’s def still more developing he has to do, but with Zibby locked up, and NYR most likely looking for a 2C in the offseason via trade, chytil might not be in the teams long, even mid range planning.
It doesn’t help that he appeared to have virtually no chemistry with panarin when he’s played center with him.
Vally brought up some valid point. Maybe he is just better off with the skillset/vision he has at the wing rather then having the responsibilities of being a center.

Is there a link to what Valley said? I'd be curious to hear what he said. You've mentioned it before, but I haven't seen it. ESPN+ cuts out before the post-game, and I'm usually trying to get work done in during the intermissions.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'll be honest, I am not the biggest supporter of making huge additions to this team as they are currently constructed. The team has not shown they can consistently control the pace of the game at 5v5 and that is almost a necessity to be able to make a run in the playoffs. However, the way I would analyze the team and determine which direction they should go and what an NHL organization will do, especially with the team in the position it is will be radically different, that's just how it is. As it stands, they will be adding, and it's probably going to hurt. The real interesting thing will be just how far are they willing to go? Will it be just one add and a couple minor moves? Or might we see a few major additions.

 

[jay from jersey]

Is there a link to what Valley said? I'd be curious to hear what he said. You've mentioned it before, but I haven't seen it. ESPN+ cuts out before the post-game, and I'm usually trying to get work done in during the intermissions.

Sure it was on the postgame after the San Jose game I believe. Or maybe the flyers game. I’ve got to go back and check which one it was.

—Flyers postgame here

 

[17futurecap]

32 thoughts


10. Stealth add: Rangers. The East and West are completely different. The West will have a playoff dogfight, particularly in the Pacific and wildcard. Meanwhile, as improved as Detroit is, it will take a massive collapse for any of the eight current post-season teams not to make it. New York is in and Chris Drury keeps quiet, but I could see them taking a surprise swing.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

32 thoughts


10. Stealth add: Rangers. The East and West are completely different. The West will have a playoff dogfight, particularly in the Pacific and wildcard. Meanwhile, as improved as Detroit is, it will take a massive collapse for any of the eight current post-season teams not to make it. New York is in and Chris Drury keeps quiet, but I could see them taking a surprise swing.

Wow, that is sure some insight there. "Drury will stay quiet, but he could also make a trade"

Bravo reporting.

 

[tlk]

Wow, that is sure some insight there. "Drury will stay quiet, but he could also make a trade"

Bravo reporting.

Friedge does put interesting stuff on the 32. Just not this bit.

 

[tlk]

Is there a link to what Valley said? I'd be curious to hear what he said. You've mentioned it before, but I haven't seen it. ESPN+ cuts out before the post-game, and I'm usually trying to get work done in during the intermissions.

Aren't both the coach and the player effectively confirmed in the recent interviews they have center in mind as the palying postion? And it's just what it is currently.

 

[Tob]

good thing about Drury is no one knows anything and as Friedman said, he's firm but reasonable. Less stressful for us.

 

[egelband]

Miller is a PPG player basically since joining the Canucks. Whether that was 1st line or 2nd line. Was 3rd line winger for NY with Hayes as Center. Can't remember where he was in Tampa. Certainly seems like a first line player at worst top 6 winger. There's two things that to me just doesn't fit the bill for a player that is likely going to cost a lot of assets.

1) You get him on a very affordable contract for 1 season, hopefully a playoff run and a full season next year. (Long term rental) If he continues the pace, he's likely going to get a new contract in the $8M plus range. Can the Rangers really afford that?

2) Rangers need a RW. They need LD. Miller is a lefty shot that is currently playing Center. Can he also play LW? Or if we comes here, does Strome slide to the right side? <--There's a lot of "if's" there for a team that is atop the Conference. Strome and Panarin are fantastic together. All sorts of chemistry. Why break that up when there are other options that would likely cost less that could play the right Wing position?

Could the Rangers send Strome the other way? He's a UFA at the end of the season so Vancouver likely wouldn't do that.

If the Rangers gut the shelves for a player they shouldn't have given up in the first place, DAMN! I can see the fan reaction already. Imagine the reaction if he came and didn't fit in well in the lineup?

I like the player. I just don't know if the situation is right for a return.

Reilly Smith or Phil Kessel seem to be much cheaper alternatives.

These are real concerns and unless Drury is a true cutthroat badass, they will be considered. I just can’t see Miller part two happening. Also, if we have two guys named Miller, our announcers are gonna plotz.

 

[Ola]

good thing about Drury is no one knows anything and as Friedman said, he's firm but reasonable. Less stressful for us.

As long as Drury understands that -- no matter where our team is at -- he could add a big name, but it probably will just make us worse. Hockey is a team game. Adding like a 2nd line center or whatever at the deadline results in that you must start the process of players finding chemistry with each other, trying different formations, etc etc etc mid-season which usually just results in a team getting worse rather than better.

 

[17futurecap]

The deadline is so far away, and NHL general managers are basically me looking at my syllabus back in the day, seeing I have 3 months to get a paper in, and then waiting for the last minute to write said paper.

Fix things with inhouse moves, or at least try.

431 forwards have played at least 150 minutes 5 on 5 in the NHL this season.

Kevin Rooney 37.69% Corsi ranked 428th
Greg McKegg 35.35% Corsi ranked 430th
Ryan Reaves 34.96% Corsi ranked you guessed it, dead last 431st

Kevin Rooney 37.95% xGF% 419th
Greg McKegg 35.75 XGF% 425th
Ryan Reaves 33.76 XGF% 429th

You can ice a bad 4th line, and not have it be the worst in the league possession wise. There is no reason Barron shouldn't be given a chance here in these weeks leading up to the deadline.

Greg McKegg should never be let out of the AHL, and there's no reason at all Reaves should be an everyday player. At least Greco could skate, he had some positive that he brings.

 

[Ola]

The game plan for Drury must -- IMO -- be to:

1. Let Strome walk this summer as a UFA. Players are paid for pts in this league. Strome has 28 pts in 35 games. A ton of those pts comes from playing with Panain 5 on 5 and on a great PP with Ziba, Kreider, Panarin and Fox.

If he did not play with Panarin 5 on 5 and did not get top PP minutes, we are looking at a player that perhaps has 15 pts in 35 games. How much is a player like that worth? 3-4m per? Strome is probably looking at 7m per and best case is probably somewhere north of 6m.

The key to building a contender in this day and age is to (a) get talent and (b) manage to put a complete team on the ice under the cap. A large majority of the winners has not only done a good job managing contracts -- in addition to that, they have also "cheated" the cap. So even "just" doing a great job in this regard often alone isn't even enough.

We are a team that has a bunch of our cap assigned to high paid players that performs up to their pay at best, but none can be considered to be a "good" contract really. Well Panarin is IMO, but he makes a ton anyway.

In these conditions, it just cannot be an option to outbid 31 other teams in this league for Ryan Strome. Sorry, it can't be. Doesn't hurt to exchange pleasentries to keep Panarin happy, nothing against Strome, but the math is just extremely far from adding up to be honest.

2. One line of reasoning has been focusing on what Drury reasonably cannot be expected to pull of. Like, if we don't resign Strome we must trade for Larkin. $+assets. Or sign someone else that is expensive. We can't expect that Drury to replace Strome with someone cheap.

Facts are, we have no alternatives and Drury must replace Strome with a cheap option, and if he can't, we won't have a good team. Through the draft, through a trade or through picking up someone underperforming elsewhere. The Cap is flat for two more years. To ever win a cap, we -- must -- have steals on the books from a cap perspective. Players outperforming their contract. The game plan cannot be to tie our arms behind our back with expensive contracts for vets that runs for 4-6 more years, while trying to provide main main ingredients super cheap around them.

3. So who should the alternatives be to replace Strome?

IMO, the No 1 option should be Alex Lafreniere. Move him to center. Giroux could make that move in Philly, so could Laf. Its where he has the most potential.

Sure we can dream about trading for like someone from LA or Newhook or someone like that. But I just think that the odds for that "getting done" ultimately just is so so low. Wouldn't rule anything out, but I wouldn't hold my breath. What is the likliness of Drury trading for a young capable cheap skilled center? It happens like once every 5th year in the entire NHL that someone like that is moved?

The No 2 option in reality is probably to go bottom fishing.
(a) There are a number of talented centers that to some degree more or less is at the same level as Strome was when we got Strome. Alex Nylander. Nic Petan. Nolan Patrick, Klim Kostin, Henrik Borstrom and the likes can be given as examples of players which were once bigger names that haven't established themselves who might have some upside.
(b) The other cathegory is guys like Colin Blackwell and the likes. Players that has caught up fast and starting to establish themselves as NHLers, but that for different reasons becomes available.
(c) We have the undrafted free agency cathegory, or drafted players that doesn't sign. Kevin Hayes, Adam Keerfot types.
(d) We have the vets that aren't cheap, but which much shorter term than Strome would look at. Tyler Johnson and co.

4., If Drury trades for an immidiate add, I think its more valuable than ever for this team to get the other team to retain capspace. Especially on a 2-3 year term. Coleman was very improtant for Tampa and the assets they played NJ to retain were worth it.

 

[tlk]

Just try Chytil already where he might belong for f sake.
Arizona is one good game for it. You can't argue we are afraid taking this risk vs them right?

That is, I agree re Strome - ppl can't see Chyt cutting it even as a makeshift 2C, yet see how Strome is the long term solution? Comeon.

 

[pld459666]

I agree with all of this, but why would we trade for him & not use him on PP1? He's 4th in the league in PP points.

Don't think he's removing Strome from the 1st unit.

Maybe they limit 1st unit and put a little more responsibility on PP2

 

[pld459666]

I don't understand the hesitancy. Well, for rentals yes. But not for guys with at least another year. Between Lundkvist, Jones, Schneider, Othmann, Robertson, Cuylle, and such this board has like half our prospect pool as untouchable when none of those guys are top 10 prospects in the league or anything like that.

For me, Schneider and Othmann are the only untouchable from that list.

 

[mas0764]

Its fair to not be sold on the team as currently constructed, because i agree that right now they are over reliant on Igor & the Powerplay. However, given the cap space we currently have, and the fact that its going to be gone this summer, we should be adding at the deadline, even if its for rentals. No one is saying to gut the farm this year, but trading some pieces in the mold of draft picks, Kravtsov, Chytil, one of Lundkvist/Jones (not all, just some - dont want this to be taken out of context), for immediate help (top 6 FWD, top 9 FWD, more reliable 3rd pair D) isn't going to hamstring them, and will very likely improve their 5v5 play so they aren't relying on guys like Patrik Nemeth, Dryden Hunt & Julien Gauthier to play major roles down the stretch and in the playoffs.

The players and fanbase deserve the opportunity to bulk up for a playoff run after being patient with the rebuild. They werent prioritizing winning for 4 years, but they still charged just a much for season tickets. And now The Garden is dying for another run, anyone who has been there will attest to it being as energized as it has in years. With Panarin/Fox/Igor/Mika/Kreider, they can hang with the big boys. With some smart deadline additions, they can beat them.

This is the start of a strong 5 year window. Nothing after that is guaranteed once Panarin's contract is up, and this very likely will be their best and only chance to add significantly at the deadline due to the incoming cap crunch. They can hoard picks & prospects in the upcoming years when they dont have deadline space to add, if thats really what we are worried about.

I don’t agree that trading some of Kravtsov/Jones/Lundkvist/1st won’t hamstring them. Again, those are the best tradeable assets they have and they simply have to address center in a serious way with youth, whether that’s trading up, consolidating for a star with term, or a hockey trade swap for a young prospect there.

While I doubt that this will be in fact their “only” chance to significantly add at the deadline (they may never have $30m in deadline space again but they will likely be able to find space somewhere, down the line), even if it was, I am not convinced that the additions being discussed here like Pavelski or Giordano even move the needle for them.

Hertl might make an impact but I still don’t think he pushes them past Tampa and the assets we’d have to flush to accomplish that make me sick when we still have such glaring holes down the middle.

 

[mas0764]

Theres probably a middle ground between "all-in" and using assets to help now without harming the future.

If they can turn a late first, the Blues second, Kravtsov & Robertson into JT Miller, Arturri Lehkonen and Colin Miller (Just examples of guys who would/could help), is that really changing their long term outlook?

It empties your savings account on a team that doesn’t have a realistic chance of winning. Then next year when maybe the team is actually good are we gonna hear the same argument? “Well, we thought last year was the year but now this is really the year? And yes we already traded Robertson but what is trading just one more prospect? It’s just Zach Jones, what’s the big deal?”

No, I’m not trading any premier prospects for rentals. Robertson qualifies.

The middle ground is let’s see what a second or third brings us, or what Hunter Skinner brings.

 

[mas0764]

4 years ago Alain Vigneault was still our coach, so much can change between now and then. Contending teams (we are one whether we like it or not) don't plan for the unknown that many years down the road, there are too many variables that can change the best laid plans. I say again, not helping this team with some deadline deals this year is organizational malpractice

I fail to see how it’s malpractice to avoid flushing assets. This team can’t win it all. It’s malpractice to chase a fairy tale.