Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

[McRanger92]

The Vezina and Norris candidates are gonna be here forever, certainly by time I’d expect to be up and running.

It’s not just according to Dom L. Lots of people not on this forum are not buying the Rangers.

Its fair to not be sold on the team as currently constructed, because i agree that right now they are over reliant on Igor & the Powerplay. However, given the cap space we currently have, and the fact that its going to be gone this summer, we should be adding at the deadline, even if its for rentals. No one is saying to gut the farm this year, but trading some pieces in the mold of draft picks, Kravtsov, Chytil, one of Lundkvist/Jones (not all, just some - dont want this to be taken out of context), for immediate help (top 6 FWD, top 9 FWD, more reliable 3rd pair D) isn't going to hamstring them, and will very likely improve their 5v5 play so they aren't relying on guys like Patrik Nemeth, Dryden Hunt & Julien Gauthier to play major roles down the stretch and in the playoffs.

The players and fanbase deserve the opportunity to bulk up for a playoff run after being patient with the rebuild. They werent prioritizing winning for 4 years, but they still charged just a much for season tickets. And now The Garden is dying for another run, anyone who has been there will attest to it being as energized as it has in years. With Panarin/Fox/Igor/Mika/Kreider, they can hang with the big boys. With some smart deadline additions, they can beat them.

This is the start of a strong 5 year window. Nothing after that is guaranteed once Panarin's contract is up, and this very likely will be their best and only chance to add significantly at the deadline due to the incoming cap crunch. They can hoard picks & prospects in the upcoming years when they dont have deadline space to add, if thats really what we are worried about.

 

[McRanger92]

Fox and Shesterkin are gonna be in their primes next year as well. And the year after that. And the year after that.

But what about Mika, Trouba, Kreider, Strome? They are here now and playing extremely well in key roles. I know we want our prospects to one day supplant these guys, but there's no guarantee that will ever happen. I know this is "Hockey's Future" but the New York Ranger organization exists in the real world where picks and prospects don't always work out, and they have paying fans who want to see real playoff hockey again. The rebuild has put them in 1st place in mid-January with more assets and cap space than they will ever have again, time to use some of them to help now. And that's what they will do.

 

[bbny]

Trading for Miller to replace Strome is why the phrase "rob Peter to pay Paul" exists. Just don't. There must be a better option that has or will present itself.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

But what about Mika, Trouba, Kreider, Strome? They are here now and playing extremely well in key roles. I know we want our prospects to one day supplant these guys, but there's no guarantee that will ever happen. I know this is "Hockey's Future" but the New York Ranger organization exists in the real world where picks and prospects don't always work out, and they have paying fans who want to see real playoff hockey again. The rebuild has put them in 1st place in mid-January with more assets and cap space than they will ever have again, time to use some of them to help now. And that's what they will do.

They just signed Mika for a bunch of years so the Rangers aren't just banking on this year for Mika. Trouba and Kreider are gonna be gone at some point because of the cap and replaced with the assets that we have - which is a good reason to be careful what we trade. Strome is the same age as Mika.

This isn't the Ranger's year to go all in. This team has way too many holes, is inexperienced and there are too many teams that are just flat out better than the Rangers.

 

[McRanger92]

But he should use three first round picks for a season and a half of a player we won't be able to re-sign? That was ONE hypothetical example. We have more pieces than we can use. But that doesn't mean that we have to throw them away on rentals (even 18 month rentals) that ultimately aren't likely to move the needle for a Stanley Cup for a roster with no playoff experience.

Trading for a top 6 player for 2 playoff runs provides much more real world value to the Rangers than a draft pick who may not contribute for 2-4 years (if at all). And whats the point of hoarding draft picks if even the most optimistic of us have concerns about the org's development of forward prospects?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Trading for a top 6 player for 2 playoff runs provides much more real world value to the Rangers than a draft pick who may not contribute for 2-4 years (if at all). And whats the point of hoarding draft picks if even the most optimistic of us have concerns about the org's development of forward prospects?

In 2-4 years the cap is still going to be in the 80s and the Rangers are gonna need what that draft pick brings in order to supplement all of the high priced players they already have.

 

[Claxton]

Max Domi as a cheap rental? Maybe him and Kakko can elevate each other.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-canadiens-max-domi-diabetes-book-1.5404216

Just something fresh in the midst of all the JT Miller talk.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Max Domi as a cheap rental? Maybe him and Kakko can elevate each other.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-canadiens-max-domi-diabetes-book-1.5404216

Just something fresh in the midst of all the JT Miller talk.

Nope...pass.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Chytil-Athanasiou-Gauthier

 

[McRanger92]

They just signed Mika for a bunch of years so the Rangers aren't just banking on this year for Mika. Trouba and Kreider are gonna be gone at some point because of the cap and replaced with the assets that we have - which is a good reason to be careful what we trade. Strome is the same age as Mika.

This isn't the Ranger's year to go all in. This team has way too many holes, is inexperienced and there are too many teams that are just flat out better than the Rangers.

Theres probably a middle ground between "all-in" and using assets to help now without harming the future.

If they can turn a late first, the Blues second, Kravtsov & Robertson into JT Miller, Arturri Lehkonen and Colin Miller (Just examples of guys who would/could help), is that really changing their long term outlook?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Chytil-Athanasiou-Gauthier

Everyone here would absolutely hate Athanasiou and that line would be abysmal

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

He re-signed unfortunately, would have been a great target:

Couturier gets well-earned raise as Flyers sign him to big extension

God damnit that’s right. I was in a rush on cap friendly and looking at names. Thanks my bad

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Theres probably a middle ground between "all-in" and using assets to help now without harming the future.

If they can turn a late first, the Blues second, Kravtsov & Robertson into JT Miller, Arturri Lehkonen and Colin Miller (Just examples of guys who would/could help), is that really changing their long term outlook?

Trading assets for guys now when this team is so far away from established top teams is like buying tires before your car is built and hoping to get to town. That proposal you made likely wouldn't get JT miller alone. We need to walk before we run, the kids aren't ready, the only guy who's played a playoff game in NY is Kreider, need to get there and build in the offseason.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Theres probably a middle ground between "all-in" and using assets to help now without harming the future.

If they can turn a late first, the Blues second, Kravtsov & Robertson into JT Miller, Arturri Lehkonen and Colin Miller (Just examples of guys who would/could help), is that really changing their long term outlook?

Trading the 2nds, some B prospects - sure. The Rangers should be keeping their premium assets unless it addresses a long term addition, preferably on C. That's not JT Miller. JT Miller isn't taking this team on a cup run. He's not the missing piece that's gonna fix what ails this team.

 

[RGY]

So many posters now can't wait to ship Chytil out for a minimum return (mostly rentals). Reminds me of how not long ago Buch was being shipped out at every opportunity.

Pavel Buchnevich was much further along at the same age. Chytil is a terribly irresponsible player with a low hockey IQ.

 

[McRanger92]

In 2-4 years the cap is still going to be in the 80s and the Rangers are gonna need what that draft pick brings in order to supplement all of the high priced players they already have.

4 years ago Alain Vigneault was still our coach, so much can change between now and then. Contending teams (we are one whether we like it or not) don't plan for the unknown that many years down the road, there are too many variables that can change the best laid plans. I say again, not helping this team with some deadline deals this year is organizational malpractice

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Pavel Buchnevich was much further along at the same age. Chytil is a terribly irresponsible player with a low hockey IQ.

Chytil is afraid of conflict, you can tell a lot about how a player will fair in playoffs by how they react in scrums etc, he tucks his tail and retreats, Zib does it too but he's skilled enough to overcome that.

 

[duhmetreE]

This team could have Buch on it and we'd still suck 5v5.

The team play is the issue. Puck movement is the issue. Puck support. We struggled with similar things over the years but we were never this bad.

 

[smoneil]

Theres probably a middle ground between "all-in" and using assets to help now without harming the future.

If they can turn a late first, the Blues second, Kravtsov & Robertson into JT Miller, Arturri Lehkonen and Colin Miller (Just examples of guys who would/could help), is that really changing their long term outlook?

Three Millers? The last time I saw that many Millers in one place, I was knee-deep in the Canterbury Tales.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

4 years ago Alain Vigneault was still our coach, so much can change between now and then. Contending teams (we are one whether we like it or not) don't plan for the unknown that many years down the road, there are too many variables that can change the best laid plans. I say again, not helping this team with some deadline deals this year is organizational malpractice

The only thing a team this bad on 5v5 is contending for is a first round exit.

This team is going to make moves at the deadline, no doubt. I don't think it's going to be the huge splash that people think it's gonna be. The team just is not ready for that.

 

[McRanger92]

Trading assets for guys now when this team is so far away from established top teams is like buying tires before your car is built and hoping to get to town. That proposal you made likely wouldn't get JT miller alone. We need to walk before we run, the kids aren't ready, the only guy who's played a playoff game in NY is Kreider, need to get there and build in the offseason.

I guess thats the difference between us. I am not convinced Kakko & Lafreniere will ever reach a point where they can carry the offensive load on a Stanley Cup contender. Not saying they wont be solid players, but going deep in the playoffs at a young age can only help. Kreider is a perfect example, he thrived at a young age in multiple playoffs runs and it helped him become the player he is now.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

This team could have Buch on it and we'd still suck 5v5.

The team play is the issue. Puck movement is the issue. Puck support. We struggled with similar things over the years but we were never this bad.

All of these things fall on the coach.

 

[RGY]

Chytil is afraid of conflict, you can tell a lot about how a player will fair in playoffs by how they react in scrums etc, he tucks his tail and retreats, Zib does it too but he's skilled enough to overcome that.

I think Zib at least has more of a pulse out there. But you are right that Zib does so much more to overcome the need for him to engage in the physical and nasty scrums. Chytil does not bring those elements to the table. No point production. Doesn’t drive play. Can’t win faceoffs. Is a liability defensively. Can’t PK. There is just nothing there. For a guy with his size and speed, he is so wildly soft. But more than just his soft play, he is a passenger skating laps out there and turning pucks over.

 

[McRanger92]

The only thing a team this bad on 5v5 is contending for is a first round exit.

This team is going to make moves at the deadline, no doubt. I don't think it's going to be the huge splash that people think it's gonna be. The team just is not ready for that.

My belief is that adding 2 top 6-9 forwards and a defenseman better than Nemeth will get the teams 5v5 play to a place thats closer to league average or better, and when you have Igor that gets you into contention for a Cup. I don't think that unreasonable.

 

[smoneil]

Pavel Buchnevich was much further along at the same age. Chytil is a terribly irresponsible player with a low hockey IQ.

Funnily enough, that was the exact line a bunch of folks had on JT Miller, and now half the boards want to sacrifice multiple high end assets to buy him back. Funny, that. Also, Buchnevich, at the same age, got 15 minutes per game and ample power play time (where he scored 17 of his 43 points). Every time Chytil has gotten similar usage, he produces. Just out of curiosity--you and KB and a few others have been on a seeming crusade to get rid of this kid for a while now. If he IS moved, and is given an actual extended top six opportunity with his new team, and turns into a legit top six player like several of us believe he can, will you eat the crow?

Chytil is afraid of conflict, you can tell a lot about how a player will fair in playoffs by how they react in scrums etc, he tucks his tail and retreats, Zib does it too but he's skilled enough to overcome that.

This is ridiculous. Chytil was one of two players who actually looked good in the three game play in (the other being Kakko).