Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXII

[Off Sides]

I think Kreider alone at the draft with no extension goes for like a late 1st, some B level prospect. Maybe a little bit more like a warm body too. He is after all basically a rental.

Add the Jets 1st to Kreider and I think it changes the conversation to more somewhere around picks 9 - 14 because that is about where the the teams who are not rebuilding themselves will have picks.

I don't think anything earlier than those slots are even going to be available for anything the Rangers have short of Zbad.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Re: the Lucic trade, I’d argue that the amount LAK paid for only one year of Lucic, plus the subsequent ROI, would hinder any GMs from paying that much for Kreider on draft day.

If Gorton wants to trade him because he’s worried about his aging curve, then I understand it. I don’t blame him for not wanting the risk of having a $6M+ checker a few years into that deal.

That being said, if they do move Kreider, I’d really like to see them make a trade (potentially separate from a Kreider deal) for a player in the 23-25 age range to grow with this core. Lemieux was a good start, but I think they’re still lacking that current top-end talent at forward outside of Zibanejad.

The progress Buchnevich has made in 2019 has been very promising, and if I were Gorton, I try to lock him up long-term to keep his cap hit lower.

I could see a Fiala/Granlund type trade with Kreider. Wouldn’t be surprised if Gorton was sniffing around a deal like that at the deadline.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Some interesting tidbits that I remember reading from Carp's Q&A:

-thinks that the Rangers will be active at both the draft and in free agency. Says Gorton is "looking at everything" to try and improve the team now that the cupboard is restocked

-didn't rule out using vets and even some draft picks as currency to get an asset that the Rangers may really like

-Carp speculated that he thinks Gorton wants to use some currency to acquire a youngish top 4 defenseman

- as far as the draft goes, Carp speculates that the Rangers are targeting "a scoring forward" with their high pick. Didn't mention any names

 

[NernieBichols]

Ottawa also had zero leverage and, well....they’re Ottawa. Not to mention that the market at the trade deadline and the market at the draft can be two entirely different things.

Now, overall, I’m with you - I think that expecting a Brannstrom level prospect for Kreider is likely wishful thinking. That said, he is absolutely the type of guy I could see 4 or 5 teams being completely enamored with - even more so than a guy like Stone. Imagine Kreider next to McDavid or Scheifele and Wheeler? That changes the dynamic of those teams, IMO. If Gorton can create a bidding war for Kreider, I like our chances of getting an excellent package.

Look it’s either Kreids with an extension or place or your getting rental prices. So speculate on what teams he’d be willing to resign with and if they’d trade for him. Those are the 2-3 teams you might get a foundational piece from, bc they are receiving one too and the catch is gonna be, they want this guy now for this year in the prime of his career ready to contribute his best, which said foundational piece wouldn’t be ready to do for awhile or let’s say in a McAvoy case, as good as he is, he may not be in their long term plans (either asking price or maybe the kid wants to hit UFA as early as possible and they know that already).

Otherwise it’s gonna be a rental deal, or maybe part of a bigger deal, that would be a way of increasing the return on a rental Kreider.

 

[NernieBichols]

Some interesting tidbits that I remember reading from Carp's Q&A:

-thinks that the Rangers will be active at both the draft and in free agency. Says Gorton is "looking at everything" to try and improve the team now that the cupboard is restocked

-didn't rule out using vets and even some draft picks as currency to get an asset that the Rangers may really like

-Carp speculated that he thinks Gorton wants to use some currency to acquire a youngish top 4 defenseman

- as far as the draft goes, Carp speculates that the Rangers are targeting "a scoring forward" with their high pick. Didn't mention any names

Carp also clearly stated ‘not karlsson’. Panarin yes if he wants to sign. Karlsson, no

There it is

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

It can cut both ways, and has, depending on different examples we use.

You can make a sound argument that the numbers go up as the supporting case takes shape around them, because they're no longer the primary focus of the opposition.

You can make a sound argument that the numbers do down as they aren't thrown out there more frequently.

It's the same mentality when you trade for someone. Sometimes a player thrives in a situation and takes it to another level. Other times what seems like a great fit fizzles out and doesn't materialize.

Maybe I shouldn’t have used the term ‘first liners’ because I think I’d ideally like Mika to be a 2C behind someone who’s better, because even if his numbers didn’t go up from his previous norm with the focus shifted off him, he’s still a good 2C

 

[NernieBichols]

Agreed, although some people have recently praised him for his play.

I’d like to see Buch start hanging out with ADA + Lemieux. Learn how to play with a chip on his shoulder.

When he’s emotionally involved he’s a completely different player.

That’s a reason why I loved the addition of Lemieux. There were more “talented” prospects in WPG but that kids character just rubs off on his peers.

Yup.
I think in alpha established locker room like Winnipeg, Pepe was neutered and his affects on a club, the circumstances weren’t there for him to be able to be that, so he files in and that kinda dampers the kids natural state as an outgoing, tone-setting teammate

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

-didn't rule out using vets and even some draft picks as currency to get an asset that the Rangers may really like

-Carp speculated that he thinks Gorton wants to use some currency to acquire a youngish top 4 defenseman

- as far as the draft goes, Carp speculates that the Rangers are targeting "a scoring forward" with their high pick. Didn't mention any names

The first tidbit sounds like Carp has been reading @Off Sides posts But yeah, that sounds a lot like a Kreider+picks to move up type deal.

Second tidbit - Trouba jumps to mind immediately.

 

[NernieBichols]

Re: the Lucic trade, I’d argue that the amount LAK paid for only one year of Lucic, plus the subsequent ROI, would hinder any GMs from paying that much for Kreider on draft day.

If Gorton wants to trade him because he’s worried about his aging curve, then I understand it. I don’t blame him for not wanting the risk of having a $6M+ checker a few years into that deal.

That being said, if they do move Kreider, I’d really like to see them make a trade (potentially separate from a Kreider deal) for a player in the 23-25 age range to grow with this core. Lemieux was a good start, but I think they’re still lacking that current top-end talent at forward outside of Zibanejad.

The progress Buchnevich has made in 2019 has been very promising, and if I were Gorton, I try to lock him up long-term to keep his cap hit lower.

If buchnevich finishes the season playing every game with passion and authority. I would sign long term. If you get that feel, he’s turning it, and you can bank on him, you can get him for 6 years for like 2-3 million less than if you bridged him and he broke out.
Plus, maybe the investment and vote of confidence actually pushes buchnevich to be even better.
He’s got the goods. He’s got some moxie too. Play him with guys that love to play and play like Pepe and lias and howden. Rubs off on buch. Especially when he can be the scorer for those guys. You see it gives him juice. Being the guy.

 

[I Eat Crow]

The first tidbit sounds like Carp has been reading @Off Sides posts But yeah, that sounds a lot like a Kreider+picks to move up type deal.

Second tidbit - Trouba jumps to mind immediately.

I agree on both accounts. I can see a Krieder and Winnipeg 1st deal to move up to the late top 10 or early teens to nab a falling player that the Rangers like.

We'll see on Trouba, but I agree, he's the type of player the Rangers should target.

Skjei and small add for Trouba and a 2nd and 3rd (what the compensation would be for an offer sheet for him anyway) at the draft for Kapanen and I don't care what else the Rangers do in free agency. Those would be two excellent additions.

 

[NernieBichols]

It’s truly mind blowing. “Yeah, I’ll take the guy who scores every other game”. Yeah, I’m sure all of us would love to have OV or Gretzky, too bad there’s only two of them.

Some players Kreider and Mika specifically. Vesey another. We’ve had a couple of em’. Score in bunches, disappear other times, important times.
Some guys consistently score goals and it allows the team to function smoothly over the course of things.
2019 and you guys are dense to how bad the and average the league is. Every team is gonna have a couple runs. Every top line and top 6 guy is gonna have some weeks when they come in bunches. But most of this ish is just the spinning of regular season wheels.

You need guys who do what they do, night in and night out. Let a guy be who he’s supposed to be consistently. Always the goal

 

[NernieBichols]

I'll sound like a broken record saying this, but I'd rather come away out of this draft with less picks, but have them be higher, than more picks. I have a different approach to this year than I did in 2018.

I'd love to add a pick in the 12-15 range and come away with someone who compliments whoever we take with our top pick.

In this draft, I'd rather pick 6th, 13th and 50th, than 6th, 28th, 31st, and 40th and 50th.

I’m pretty sure the front office agrees. Gorts spent the last 2 seasons restocking the pipeline, now he’s gonna use some of it to try and get these players everyone knows they need. Young difference makers. Scorers, producers

 

[Mac n Gs]

I could see a Fiala/Granlund type trade with Kreider. Wouldn’t be surprised if Gorton was sniffing around a deal like that at the deadline.

I’d say that’s the absolute ceiling for a deal, especially since his new team only would get him for one year unless they extend him.

I’m still expecting something like the Muzzin deal.

If buchnevich finishes the season playing every game with passion and authority. I would sign long term. If you get that feel, he’s turning it, and you can bank on him, you can get him for 6 years for like 2-3 million less than if you bridged him and he brought out.
Plus maybe the investment and vote of confidence actually pushes buchnevich to be even better.
He’s got the goods. He’s got some moxie too. Play him with guys that love to play and play like Pepe and lias and howden. Rubs off on buch. Especially when he can be the scorer for those guys. You see it gives him juice. Being the guy.

That would be nice, but idk if you’ll get him for that much term because I think that would be buying 3 UFA years.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I’d say that’s the absolute ceiling for a deal, especially since his new team only would get him for one year unless they extend him.

I’m still expecting something like the Muzzin deal.


That would be nice, but idk if you’ll get him for that much term because I think that would be buying 3 UFA years.

Yah, in the end, I’d expect a pick in the 15-20 range and a B prospect for Kreider. I’m not getting my hopes up for a guy like Brannstrom or Tolvanen, but you never know.

 

[NernieBichols]

I’d say that’s the absolute ceiling for a deal, especially since his new team only would get him for one year unless they extend him.

I’m still expecting something like the Muzzin deal.


That would be nice, but idk if you’ll get him for that much term because I think that would be buying 3 UFA years.

I hear ya, but that’s the point of buying in early on a long term deal. But in throwing stuff out there, I generalize a lot. 6yrs is a lot in this current landscape. Gorts like 4-5 year deals. So a long term deal would probably be a 4-5 yr deal and not a 6. Buy out a couple years of free agency ala mcd

 

[NernieBichols]

Yah, in the end, I’d expect a pick in the 15-20 range and a B prospect for Kreider. I’m not getting my hopes up for a guy like Brannstrom or Tolvanen, but you never know.

Tolvanen I think is available for a rental Kreider. Think there are real questions if tolvanen is good enough in all the other areas other than shooting. I bet you Gorts wanted two or three of (fiala, Tolavanen, fabbro, 1st) and that’s why shortly before the deadline fiala went solo for granlund. Denton new wild GM old assistant GM in Nashville. Seemingly locked in on the kid, at the expense of any additional pieces in that deal.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Tolvanen I think is available for a rental Kreider. Think there are real questions if tolvanen is good enough in all the other areas other than shooting. I bet you Gorts wanted two or three of (fiala, Tolavanen, fabbro, 1st) and that’s why shortly before the deadline fiala went solo for granlund. Denton new wild GM old assistant GM in Nashville. Seemingly locked in on the kid, at the expense of any additional pieces in that deal.

Yeah, Tolvanen is a guy who I could see being moved in the right deal, I just question if Kreider is the guy they want to move him for. I think he would be more of the same for Nashville - a great complimentary player. I think, in this secnario, they’d rather take the risk of keeping Tolvanen and hoping he booms than trading him for another ~25 goal guy.

I agree with you on the Fenton point. That’s a dude who still seems very green, and it shows in the moves he’s made.

 

[Off Sides]

The first tidbit sounds like Carp has been reading @Off Sides posts But yeah, that sounds a lot like a Kreider+picks to move up type deal.

Second tidbit - Trouba jumps to mind immediately.

Honestly, my musings are not so much I want to see them move Kreider, it's more me trying to figure out ways where they could move him and have the return be maybe viewed as something acceptable if not good should his extension ask be something the Rangers are unwilling to go to. (which I think it will)

I kind of think they only way that happens is if he is attached to something else and it brings back a higher potential future than a late 1st, plus stuff type of return.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

That's the second time you said that. First time I stayed away from it. You can't have a cop out like that. If you have the time to log in, read and type a response, you have the time to come up with something other than a line like that. Otherwise, it just appears that all you are capable of doing is making statements out of your tukhus and not having a shred of ability to provide any data to back up your assertion.

Very good then. i have a ----...

This time we'll say life. My bad, left my tukhus at my grandmother's. She died 11 years ago. What I meant was I'm not half as smart enough to produce a top-60 list of players in two minutes. Get some fresh air, man, I'm not your enemy!

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Is there a separate Kravstov thread?

Anyway I know theres been a lot of discussion regarding him coming over and signing his ELC and what that will entail going forward this year and the potential exposure in the expansion draft. Has there been any concrete info on any of this?

If he is indeed signing soon it looks like things will pan out in a favorable way for him the way the schedule looks for the Rangers. Home game tomorrow vs the Devils which he certainly will not play in and then the Rangers go on a long road trip out West - EDM, VAN, CGY and then MIN before a couple days off and playing at the Garden vs. the Wings.

If he signs sometime over the next 2-10 days i doubt they would fly him out to join the Rangers mid-trip, so the earliest he could play in the NHL would be against Detroit on the the 19th.

Just so happens there will be 10 games remaining on the schedule at that point, including that game.

 

[True Blue]

What I meant was I'm not half as smart enough to produce a top-60 list of players in two minutes. Get some fresh air, man, I'm not your enemy!

You are not the enemy. No here is. Well, maybe Crypto.....I jest, I jest.

That might have appeared much grumpier than it was meant to. Print sometimes tends to do that.

 

[True Blue]

Is there a separate Kravstov thread?

Prospect Info: - 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part V

 

[effen]

Whoever said Tolvanen is in play for Kreider at the draft... no way. Wishcasting. Whoever else said they could see a Fiala/Granlund type deal for him however is on the money. I think the Rangers are done trading their top liners for 1st/B prospect/roster filler. That part of the rebuild is over.

Someone else mentioned signing Buchnevich for 6 years - holy recency bias. He is the literal last guy I want to give a ton of security to, either dollars, years, or both. He can certainly have a place on a winning team but I think making him a foundational player is a mistake.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think sending an offer sheet to a young rfa player like Johanson and only giving up a 2nd pick is the type of move I expect this summer. Panarin would be nice but I'm ok if we dont either but if we draft our picks, and add someone like Johnson that would be a really successful summer for us.

 

[Leetch3]

I think sending an offer sheet to a young rfa player like Johanson and only giving up a 2nd pick is the type of move I expect this summer. Panarin would be nice but I'm ok if we dont either but if we draft our picks, and add someone like Johnson that would be a really successful summer for us.

so you expect them to do the thing that no team does ever?