Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXX

[Shesterkybomb]

The plan was for Laf to stick with Zib and Kreider on the first line, but he wasn't ready. Laffy isn't comfortable on the right, so he ended up on the third line. If Chytil had progressed this year things might look different but instead his weaknesses have been highlighted. Kravtsov is talented and could have played on the Laf-Chytil line, but he is too good for third line duty according to himself so he is in Russia.

We know Drury tried to sign Danault, who would have been either 2C or 3C, probably 3C as Strome couldn't be moved.

Lafreniere got 2 shifts on the right side

 

[jay from jersey]

How was it not necessary. What inside infor do you have? We know he left, we dont know why, all we know is what the Rangers media spin told us

No, BBKers laid out a pretty long substantial post of inside info.
Basically what I just posted above.
CLW is largely correct here..
Why don’t you think rangers resign Blais???
He was obviously targeted by Drury in that trade as a guy he wanted. He doesn’t make a lot of money. He was playing well prior to Subban ending his season, but not crazy enough to get a tremendous raise or anything?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

pretty obvious, as well as leaks from some insiders.
Drury and Krav got into a verbal thing about quitting on the team at the bubble.
Kravy had a bad exit interview and when Drury was hired as GM, he thought he would be traded in the offseason.
Rangers dealt Buch and Kravtsov thought he was a shoe in for a top 6 or top 9 spot.
After he was injured at camp and found out he was being sent to the A for a conditioning stint, he lost his shit and demanded a trade publicly.
He then ran back to Russia for the 2nd time.
Now Drury and Kravy are playing nice in efforts to hopefully up his trade value. Drury made the agreement with Traktor for him to do so.
The kid is very immature and likely spoiled. When he was told by unnamed player that spots are earned, not just given to you because your a top 10 pick, I’m guessing he didn’t like that either.
I mean I really don’t see how anyone can think this isn’t 90% on krav and his actions... it really boggles my mind
JD and Gorton has to basically step in and bring him back to Hartford on his 1st escape attempt because when he got back to Traktor, he wasn’t playing well and was going to be sent down to their affiliate and basically lose an entire year of development playing against sub par competition.
It looked like when he came back he was at least doing things and progressing even with the shitshow The season prior. I thought he was solid in his 20 games with NYR, many did, even though Quinn left him on 4th line the whole time.
I thought he looked good enough in camp and the got injured. Scored a nice goal when he got back, but still missed some evaluation time under the new HC.
But when he was told he wouldn’t be on the opening Roster, he lost his marbles again with that immature/spoil brat attitude.
He thought he was too good/talented for Hartford the year after he was drafted, and still thinks that. He’s the mighty Kravy, he has nothing to learn from playing in the A, it’s beneath him.

All of this hasn't been confirmed, its just morr regurgitating of posters "leaks" and Rangers media spin. An unnamed player said something, come on. We all know that Leaky Larry puts stuff out there at the behest of the Rangers. We haven't heard a peep from Kravtsov from all of this.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

No, BBKers laid out a pretty long substantial post of inside info.
Basically what I just posted above.
CLW is largely correct here.

All that info came from the Rangers organization, what did you expect?

 

[jay from jersey]

All that info came from the Rangers organization, what did you expect?

Wasn’t really just all inside info from someone in the know. He made a timeline of all the events from when we drafted him up until the 2nd time he split for Russia. Most of it was public knowledge, but he did have info in there from people he talked to in the know. I have serious doubts they would have any reason to lie or he would have any reason to fabricate the post. There’s no point to.
The stuff in there that many didn’t know about was the argument with Drury in the bubble when he called krav out for leaving the first time and quitting on the team in front of a group of people.
Krav missing his sisters wedding just to be with the team, even though he knew he prob wouldn’t be playing anyway, but made the sacrifice to be there and be with the team.
The heated exit interview last year, which lead krav to believe he would be dealt in the offseason....

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Wasn’t really just all inside info from someone in the know. He made a timeline of all the events from when we drafted him up until the 2nd time he split for Russia. Most of it was public knowledge, but he did have info in there from people he talked to in the know. I have serious doubts they would have any reason to lie or he would have any reason to fabricate the post. There’s no point to.
The stuff in there that many didn’t know about was the argument with Drury in the bubble when he called krav out for leaving the first time and quitting on the team in front of a group of people.
Krav missing his sisters wedding just to be with the team, even though he knew he prob wouldn’t be playing anyway, but made the sacrifice to be there and be with the team.

Thats still only one side of the story. As I've said before, a lot has been said about Kravtsov's maturity but the fact that he hasn't said anything about the whole thing since contradicts that

 

[jay from jersey]

Thats still only one side of the story. As I've said before, a lot has been said about Kravtsov's maturity but the fact that he hasn't said anything about the whole thing since contradicts that

It basically laid the framework of why things between Kravy and Drury ( rangers org) were strained and to why this ended up at the point they are now. Like I said, it wasn’t really a hit job on krav, but more so a timeline of events with some things, meetings, arguments the public wasn’t privy to.
Going by what has transpired and the fact that he ran away the 1st time being assigned to Hartford would lead me to believe everything is factual.
If you wana call krav and get his side, maybe he’ll tell you.
But I have no reason not to believe anything that he put out.
He was drafted high. He has talent for sure, but he’s very immature and has that spoiled rich kid attitude about him.
Which leads me to believe he has questionable character/resolve/ mental fortitude.
Especially getting news he doesn’t like, or dealing with adversity.
dont need to be a detective to see...
Got news D1 he wasn’t good enough to make the rangers and was being sent to Hartford.
He didn’t think so/ instead of bearing down and working hard and working his way up, chose to leave for traktor.
He gets demoted from traktor. JD/Gorton reach out so he doesn’t wind up in a Gulag in Siberia and convince him to return to America and play in the A. He goes for a little, plays pretty well, not great.
He gets 20 games under Quinn, not optimal line mates or usage but plays well regardless.
( this is when we were all fooled into thinking that things might have changed btw)
Has a solid yet unremarkable camp with an injury.
What happens???
He gets more news he doesn’t like, that he’s got to report to Hartford for a conditioning assignment....
What happens yet again??
Days later he’s back in Russia.

yes we’re not getting the actual story straight from Kravtsovs mouth, but you really don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know which way the wind blows...

he’s shown a pattern and a history to have questionable character and not dealing with adversity too well.....
I don’t want to say he doesn’t care or doesn’t work hard, because he’s had to to get to the level where he’s at now.
But when things go sideways for him, it’s pretty apparent he runs home to traktor, to daddy’s millions, to a team where he’s a big fish in a small pond and knows he’ll get the minutes/ spot in the line up basically given to him.
People make the argument of the large pay difference between the AHL and KHL. with kravS pops having brewsters millions, you’d think if he really wanted to be in the nhl and it’s his dream he’d bust his ass in Hartford for a few months and light it up and be on the rangers sooner rather then later.
Like I said, with out getting his side of the story straight from his mouth, I’m going on what insiders have leaked and the pattern/history he’s demonstrated since being drafted

 

[Ned Braden]

Yes but we also got hunt and reaves and resigned Rooney, we now have a 3rd line that cant score and a 2nd with Hunt on it. Its a crime that Laf has to play with Chytil and Gauthier. We didnt have to aquire a checking forward for Buch.

Dude Laf is the worst player on that line

 

[effen]

I don't about you, but if I got my first GM job and I faced a tough spot, I would respond by instantly capitulating to a 21 year old who had like 3 points in 25 games.

That would have inspired a lot of respect both in the organization and the locker room.

It's just science.

 

[TominNC]

I don't believe that for a second.

If hajek just wasn't on the roster...and everyone else was exactly the same...I bet you anything kravtsov makes the team.

With that said I don't really have as big of an issue with the way things played out as many ppl here so.

He wasn’t sent down for a numbers crunch. Insisting that they lied just feeds your need to push the Kravtsov narrative. If the child had gone dow. To Hartford he would have been back ages ago

 

[TominNC]

Or Drury could have swallowed his pride, but, he had to be the big man and browbeat the kid.

That would have been the wrong signal to send

 

[jay from jersey]

Thats still only one side of the story. As I've said before, a lot has been said about Kravtsov's maturity but the fact that he hasn't said anything about the whole thing since contradicts that

I mean not really. Actions speak louder then words. I’m sure his agent and probably his family has told him keep your mouth shut and don’t do anything to further damage your trade value.
Abandoned team twice. The first time removing every ranger item off his Facebook/Instagram,
Both times he’s thought the AHL is beneath his talent level. Basically saying there’s nothing he can learn down there. Essentially it’s beneath him. He thinks.
He publicly asked for a trade. Even going to the point saying he’ll go to another AHL team, just not Hartford. Again which he has no choice likely.
Not many teams trading for a guy that fled the team that drafted him twice, if going to be promised top 6/9 minutes without showing he can earn it for a little in the A imo.
It seems your looking for any possibility people can be wrong about Kravtsovs Maturity issues but your denying that his actions since being drafted don’t speak just as loud or louder then any false words he might say to a talking head in an interview. A bit Weird honestly.

 

[CLW]

All that info came from the Rangers organization, what did you expect?

I just stated the fact that Kravtsov chose to escape to the KHL. You are the one insisting there is more to the story without offering anything factual at all to explain what that would be.

It is clear that Kravtsov could have accepted his AHL assignment and carried on.

That is the bottom line.

 

[Crease]

Igor back. Kinkaid down. Nemeth omicron’d.

 

[huerter]

A lot of people knew a lot of things were being discussed or were imminent or there were two NHL forwards with packing labels being sent to NY and meanwhile we went 500 plus days without acquiring anyone. This league man.

 

[pld459666]

Rangers are currently 2nd in the Metro, 4th in the Conference. There's 33 Games to go till the deadline. If they are sitting in a similar position, March 21 2022. I would bet good money that they look to make considerable additions.

It would be an absolute disservice if they didn't.

Playoff experience is gained by playing in the playoffs.

One and done fodder doesn't help.

 

[2014nyr]

It’s not about shaking up the roster (which I don’t think this team need). It’s about taking a step back and look where your team is — which can be done after a long stretch of gathering assets — and then send it in the right direction.

My take of this team is this. No team will be perfect. No team will look pretty for 60 minutes a night 82 games a year. We have to live with some flaws on the roster.

But I do think the flaw we have in terms of lack of quickness and speed at center ice, is costly. I would also like to see another real ‘weapon’ offensively on the blueline. This is also against the background of an expectation that Ziba and Panarin will slow down eventually. Getting that real speedy threat at center ice is just important.

If that is the conclusion you come to, there will never be any short cuts. There aren’t many players that fits that mold to start with. Newhook is one. What would it take to get Newhook? It’s going to be names like Laf or Shesty or Miller. Lundkvist won’t get us that center.

So I don’t mind playing out this season with what we got. I don’t think we need a shake up, more the opposite. But which team are we going to be the coming 5-10 years? I didn’t know about Bryam’s latest concussion problems, but in theory, getting Newhook and Bryam could move us from being like a version of one of those good SJ teams to more of a Tampa prime team.

i'm completely on board with this train of thought. center is the number one thing we need to improve. we can't be a true contender with mika/strome 1-2. its been proven repeatedly they cannot drive play consistently, and they cannot overpower other top teams for even one game we need to win, nevermind 7. we saw it in the bubble, we saw it last year against nyi/was/bos in games we had to have. no one is going to dominate all night every night...going to have bad shifts and bad nights. but we need someone who when we need it is capable and will rise to that occasion consistently. it sounded like strome was all but resigned in the midst of that 9 game streak but have heard nothing since. makes me wonder if drury hasn't drawn the same conclusion. even if he'd now prefer strome to mika in a term deal - but mika deal is done - wonder if its become clear the bottom line is the answer just can't be both.

then it becomes who might be that guy we can realistically target and what makes the most sense to have in play. i think the main thing, and its something i've stressed, is one center that can really drive play and man up/overwhelm other top c's. that parts as much mental as physical ability - someone who's going to take it from you. to me, newhook is a guy who might work...other options i'd look into are turcotte and hayton - if it can be done, this is probably a cheaper deal that could be done around a krav and hope the change of scenery / reunion with laf brings out the best of both. there may be more around the league i'm not thinking of or unaware of...whoever it is we're going to have to roll the dice. we're not getting a shane wright pick or zegras.

as far as our best trade chip that can make a trade like that happen...i say its k'andre. to me he's the guy who's going to be valued with an incredibly high ceiling given his size and mobility which would put the highest end names possible in play. and personally i don't love his inconsistent defensive play and lack of physicality/aggressiveness at his size. we can replace him with the pipeline.

 

[jay from jersey]

Kravtsov expected a top-6 role because Drury traded away Buchnevich. Without that trade happening, it's a different story.

Certainly think that was a huge part of it. When Buch was dealt, he thought he had it made in the shade and they were clearing 2 spots specifically for Him and Kakko as top 6 RW.
He didn’t expect Gauthier or Blais to have a better camp then him I suspect.
But, I think if he was starting 3rd line RW, he stays in NY and doesn’t lose his mind and throw a fit.
I guessing at worst, that’s where he figured he’d wind up starting the year off. A bit of a safety net for himself....

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Certainly think that was a huge part of it. When Buch was dealt, he thought he had it made in the shade and they were clearing 2 spots specifically for Him and Kakko as top 6 RW.
He didn’t expect Gauthier or Blais to have a better camp then him I suspect.
But, I think if he was starting 3rd line RW, he stays in NY and doesn’t lose his mind and throw a fit.
I guessing at worst, that’s where he figured he’d wind up starting the year off. A bit of a safety net for himself....

It's a fair assumption, and one that was echoed in the media as well.

 

[jay from jersey]

It’s not about shaking up the roster (which I don’t think this team need). It’s about taking a step back and look where your team is — which can be done after a long stretch of gathering assets — and then send it in the right direction.

My take of this team is this. No team will be perfect. No team will look pretty for 60 minutes a night 82 games a year. We have to live with some flaws on the roster.

But I do think the flaw we have in terms of lack of quickness and speed at center ice, is costly. I would also like to see another real ‘weapon’ offensively on the blueline. This is also against the background of an expectation that Ziba and Panarin will slow down eventually. Getting that real speedy threat at center ice is just important.

If that is the conclusion you come to, there will never be any short cuts. There aren’t many players that fits that mold to start with. Newhook is one. What would it take to get Newhook? It’s going to be names like Laf or Shesty or Miller. Lundkvist won’t get us that center.

So I don’t mind playing out this season with what we got. I don’t think we need a shake up, more the opposite. But which team are we going to be the coming 5-10 years? I didn’t know about Bryam’s latest concussion problems, but in theory, getting Newhook and Bryam could move us from being like a version of one of those good SJ teams to more of a Tampa prime team.

agree about the 2C position Ola. interesting enough,, some angry over the Robertson+1 for kreids deal that never was, nyr and Col went down to the wire on the 16OA for Kreider straight up...
If that went thru, Newhook would likely be our 2C right now. I doubt we would have passed him up with the pick. I know he was high on our list. . The Avs pulled out at the last minute and selected Newhook.
I even remember at the draft there was a little delay on the floor right before the puck was made by Colorado. It look like they were going to accept and finalize the deal

 

[Ola]

agree about the 2C position Ola. interesting enough,, some angry over the Robertson+1 for kreids deal that never was, nyr and Col went down to the wire on the 16OA for Kreider straight up...
If that went thru, Newhook would likely be our 2C right now. I doubt we would have passed him up with the pick. I know he was high on our list. . The Avs pulled out at the last minute and selected Newhook.
I even remember at the draft there was a little delay on the floor right before the puck was made by Colorado. It look like they were going to accept and finalize the deal

Yeah, and what makes it worse is that -- clearly -- big talents around the hockey world tends to be placed on the wing nowadays in junior hockey, and especially in Europe.

Without the redline offside rule the players on the ice has increasingly been stretched out. In junior hockey it works perfect to stick a big talent on wing and give him a free role.

But in the NHL D's are just so good at rubbing out big talents on the wing. Its one thing if you regularly can drop real deep and slow the pace down, like Kane or Panarin. Everything goes through them. Takes someone like Laf, I often does good things with the puck, unless he gets it while being completely cornered by a D. You want him to have the puck as much as possible, all the time. On the wing that is not happening. Get him to center ice and he just gets it a lot more. This is a move that should have been made from day 1 IMHO.

Its so hard to find those big talents at center nowadays. If Crosby came up at this time and age, odds are that he is a LW while he had someone that would cover for him defensively at center. Crosby would never have had the same impact on the wing as he had at center.

 

[mas0764]

Kravtsov made his own decision, do you understand that? Kravtsov made his own choice for his own reasons for his own benefit, and proved himself unreliable. He's gone and I couldn't care less.

I understand it. Do you understand that Drury could have prevented it?

 

[mas0764]

how? How could Drury have handled this differently??
The only thing I can think of is he should have pressed harder to deal him in the offseason knowing there was bad blood there.....
I doubt even Drury thought Kravtsov Would bounce after a conditioning stint in the AHL. Nobody was expecting that kind of reaction out of him. That’s pathetic.
Should he have forced Gallant to keep him on the roster over a Guy who worked just as hard or better? Plus he missed some time with an injury. Does he think that just doesn’t matter to a first year coach?? Wouldn’t krav or his agent think Gallant might want him to be in peak shape and all healed from injury so he can add him to the roster and evaluate where he should go from there.
Drury and Gallant have to be worried about running and coaching a team, they aren’t going to bend over backwards for Krav when it’s abundantly clear when he doesn’t like something he abandons his team. That’s his history.
I’m not a Drury apologist, but when assigning blame, it’s like 90-10 kravtsovs way. Maybe 85-15.
But I have to believe if Drury really thought krav was going to bounce over a conditioning stint in the A, he would have tried a lot harder to trade him in the offseason.
You have been trashing Drury since preseason, so maybe the agenda is with you as opposed to the apologist.
Every move he’s made has long term and short term improvement for this team and has fixed their lack of balls and culture shift.
The only disappointing thing was getting Blais+2nd for Buch instead of Blais+1st. But like I said earlier, mitigating factors and the player he targeted affected the cost I’m guessing.
Other then that- Reaves, Hunt, Goodrow, hiring Gallant, trading Howden, signing Nemeth to a moveable short term deal, drafting Othmann, protecting Rooney over Blackwell, ( which I’m sure the 2nd line didn’t like), and adding Blais and a 2nd.
If not getting a 1st for instead of a 2nd is his worst move of the offseason, how is that overall not a tremendous success???
Kravtsov made his decision. It was to overreact and fly back to Russia again, over a short term conditioning stint with Hartford. I bet if you ask kravy right now, he’d likely tell you he made the wrong decision and shouldn’t have come out publicly and caused a scene like that and abandon his team for a 2nd time.

We’ve been over Drury’s options a million times. He could have cut Hajek and kept Kravtsov on the active roster. He could have played Chytil with Kreider and Kravtsov with Zibanejad. He could have kept Kravtsov on the fourth line even though it didn’t fit. All kinds of things that might not have been their ideal plan but still better than telling him to accept the demotion or f*** off.

 

[mas0764]

That would have been the wrong signal to send

True.

But better than losing Kravtsov for nothing.

And since this is a “slippery slope,” argument ultimately it would be kinda harmless cause if anyone else acted out as a result of that wrong message, just take the hard line at that time.

 

[jay from jersey]

We’ve been over Drury’s options a million times. He could have cut Hajek and kept Kravtsov on the active roster. He could have played Chytil with Kreider and Kravtsov with Zibanejad. He could have kept Kravtsov on the fourth line even though it didn’t fit. All kinds of things that might not have been their idea plan but still better than telling him to accept the demotion or f*** off.

only it wasn’t a demotion. He was injured and didn’t require waivers. So the logical move was to send him on a 2-week conditioning stint to get him back on the top of his game from a short camp, and get called up and go from there.

4th line wasn’t even an option. We’ve seen enough of that under Quinn. He obviously has a top 9 skillset.
But the coach and the GM aren’t going to placate a fragile 21 yr old with a bad attitude and not put the best team on the ice or lose a player they didn’t want to at the time.( for whatever reason) even if I don’t agree with it.
It would make no sense to keep him on the roster and scratch him. That basically does the opposite of having him play minutes and get into top form.
Like I said, this decision is at least %90-10 kravy-Drury as far as blame goes.
I highly doubt anyone saw him running home again over a 2-week AHL conditioning assignment.
They have to make decisions that are good for the team as a whole, not worry about hurt feelings and temper tantrums from professional athletes.
It’s not as if Kravy did anything in his past to even give him the benefit of a doubt.
His prior history was leaving because he was assigned to the AHL.