Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXX

[The Crypto Guy]

Will we sign Nicklas Jensen this time or not?

I could see that happening. We will have plenty of spots this time around. His KHL contract is up this season.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He couldn't hack it in the NHL as a 24 year old, how exactly is he going to hack it as a 34 year old?

(waits potentially for someone to post the video of him undressing Pronger)

Zuccarello couldn't hack it in the NHL as a 24 year old either.

Dawes has developed significantly since he last played for the Rangers.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Zuccarello couldn't hack it in the NHL as a 24 year old either.

Dawes has developed significantly since he last played for the Rangers.

Zucc played at 23 as a rookie and did fine in the NHL.

Sure, but he's still 34. Lots of open ice in the KHL to get off his nice shot. He couldnt get that shot off in the NHL and being older and slower isn't going to magically make him better.

 

[gravey9]

Hypothetical: If a team with a top-10 pick this year is willing to make a trade at the draft similar to Stepan for 7th + D'Angelo... but for Kreider, do you make it?

I could see the Florida Panthers considering it if they don't think they'll get Panarin. I could really see the Edmonton Oilers being open to this. McDavid with Krieder...

Let's say the Oilers have the 5th or 6th overall pick and they add Pulijarvi or Yamamato for CK -- do you go for something like that?

Keep in mind, Kreider will only have one year left before UFA. And may command approx 8mil x6 on the open market. I think Gorton needs to find out the parameters of a potential next contract for Kreids and if the terms could hinder keeping the new core together in 5-6 years, they'll have a really tough decision to make... What to do with Kreider in his prime will be the hardest part of the rebuild aside from the McDonagh trade.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Gorton did exactly what I would have done. All in for the future. Sometimes the value isn't there, but the move had to be pulled. Acquired picks and prospects by the boat: Lias, Howden, Hajek, Rykov, Lindren, K'Andre, Lundqvist, Pionk, Vinni, Keane, Raddysh. Added young NHLers: Zibanejad, Lemieux, Strome, DeAngelo. Then there are picks that we got for Hayes and MZA who will turn into prospects this and next June.

This is what the doctor prescribed, but more treatment is needed: Kreider, Names, Fast must be traded for youth in the next 12 months. Maybe Staal and Smith can bring back a 3rd rounder from a team desperate for defense that doesn't mind taking 1 year of term for 2 playoff runs starting the next TDL.

Keep going high risk, high return for more guys like Chytil, Kravtsov and K'Andre.

Gorton so far did exactly what this team needs to rebuild and contend quickly - just not quick enough for the people demanding Bread and EK.

This is going to sound insane, especially since I have constantly bashed him over the past like 4 years -- but I actually think we should keep Staal at this point. He likely has very little value on the market. His contract is hardly an albatross since our cap situation is no issue at all. I think his play this year has been relatively decent and in a sheltered role he can be fine. But more importantly, he has always been a consummate professional. He has lived inside the NY fishbowl his entire career and mostly thrived. I think he is a great mentor to have on D and can be really helpful in bringing the kids along. Almost like a sort of player/coach.

I mean -- if a team comes along and offers some ridiculous deal (in terms of Staal's ability) of course you move him -- but I still think I don't mind having him here and would probably prefer to keep him. We have shipped off mostly everyone of value at this point sans Kreider (whose leadership qualities I believe might be a bit overblown), Hank & Staal.

We have a really young D core. that is likely to get even younger next year with the addition of one or two of Lindgren/Hajek/Rykov, etc. I think having Staal on that 2nd/3rd pairing back-end can be a good, solidifying force for these new guys to learn from.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Zucc played at 23 as a rookie and did fine in the NHL.

Sure, but he's still 34. Lots of open ice in the KHL to get off his nice shot. He couldnt get that shot off in the NHL and being older and slower isn't going to magically make him better.

It took Zuccarello until he was 26 to become an NHL regular.

Point is, Dawes at 24 is not a finished product. He developed in the KHL and people still think he's the same player he was 10 years ago

 

[The Crypto Guy]

It took Zuccarello until he was 26 to become an NHL regular.

Point is, Dawes at 24 is not a finished product. He developed in the KHL and people still think he's the same player he was 10 years ago

Yea, hes slower. It’s kinda odd you’re trying to make a case for Dawes with Zucc. They have absolutely NOTHING in common aside from their height.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yea, hes slower. It’s kinda odd you’re trying to make a case for Dawes with Zucc. They have absolutely NOTHING in common aside from their height.

And you clearly missed the point I was making there if you think I was comparing Dawes to Zuccarello based on the type of player they are

 

[The Crypto Guy]

And you clearly missed the point I was making there if you think I was comparing Dawes to Zuccarello based on the type of player they are

Dawes played 7 seasons of NA hockey on a small rink and couldnt cut it but once he hets to big ice he starts pouring in points. Zucc dominated on the big ice too, then took him all of 72 minor league games to make it as a full time NHLer.


Why the hell did you bring up specificly ZUCCARELLO if you werent trying to compare them? Dont try and back track, man up dude.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Dawes played 7 seasons of NA hockey on a small rink and couldnt cut it but once he hets to big ice he starts pouring in points. Zucc dominated on the big ice too, then took him all of 72 minor league games to make it as a full time NHLer.


Why the hell did you bring up specificly ZUCCARELLO if you werent trying to compare them? Dont try and back track, man up dude.

You need to chill. Your posts are pretty hostile and I don't think the comparison is that bad of one. He's just saying Zucc took some time to adapt as a player, similar to how he sees Dawes having developed later in his career. That's it. Most players are producing earlier in their careers now, but there are still a few here and there who don't hit their potential until later in their careers (this also seems to happen more often with smaller players as they learn how to manage the game and grow into their bodies/skillsets). Same was the case for St. Louis.

Dawes is a pretty damn good player right now. He wouldn't be a bad stop-gap on this team while we rebuild. If he wants to come back, I'd be interested in signing him as well. I don't really see what your deal is with hating him and it's pretty incorrect to argue that because he didn't produce at 24 he won't produce at 34. He is a significantly better player now than he was then.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Dawes played 7 seasons of NA hockey on a small rink and couldnt cut it but once he hets to big ice he starts pouring in points. Zucc dominated on the big ice too, then took him all of 72 minor league games to make it as a full time NHLer.


Why the hell did you bring up specificly ZUCCARELLO if you werent trying to compare them? Dont try and back track, man up dude.

I did not bring up Zuccarello to compare them as players. If you can't understand that, I am not going to spoon feed you everything.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I did not bring up Zuccarello to compare them as players. If you can't understand that, I am not going to spoon feed you everything.

Yea you brought him up to compare that he took time to adjust, which took him all of 72 games, while Dawes never adjusted in 6 seasons. Fantastic comparison. Please, for the love of god get off your high horse.

Please more pics of harassing our prospects parents please

 

[JHS]

The reason the Rangers have 1 Cup since before Pearl Harbor is the lack of patience. This is the first real rebuild effort in the franchise history. Every other time, the team tried to buy itself out of rebuilding into mediocrity with Valery Kamensky and Stephane Quintal. Decade after decade, money and youth was thrown away on the idea that "if you make the playoffs, anything can happen." Except it never happened until we lucked into a bunch of draftees who way, way exceeded draft day expectations: Leetch, Zubov, Richter, Amonte, Weight (some of whom were flipped for others).




We will be here, but with a dozen more legit prospects we drafted in 2019 and acquired between the draft and the TDL, staring at yet another draft with multiple first round picks. We will be here knowing we have one of the best farms in the league, if not the best. We will be here with key young players (Zibanejad, Chytil, etc) showing exactly why we acquired and drafted them. We will be here knowing the future is extremely bright and years of real Cup contention are approaching.

I totally agree with your reasoning for why the Rangers have been awfully bad building a consistent team. Absolutely right.

The thing is, so much has to go right before a rebuild can be known if it works. All these draft picks have to be good ones. All the off season moves have to be good ones. Based on what I’ve watched from this management so far( Lias, most notably,) I think they are more in love with the concept of a rebuild than the actual implementation of one. I really don’t trust these guys. I’d be curious to know if any of them have experience with a rebuild.

My problem is so many people are in love with “finally a rebuild” that I think they put far too much confidence in the management to get this all right or are just delusional about the idea of having a great farm system( the current farm system is a disgrace mind you so it will have to be totally overhauled—another series of decisions that will need to be made well) and some also have this concept that everything will just work out because the Rangers will have younger players. Again, why don’t you all take some time and visit the Buffalo or Ottawa or Phoenix or Edmonton fan boards?!? I’m sure they all felt this same way when there rebuild started...

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Yea you brought him up to compare that he took time to adjust, which took him all of 72 games, while Dawes never adjusted in 6 seasons. Fantastic comparison. Please, for the love of god get off your high horse.

Please more pics of harassing our prospects parents please

Really aggressive and uncalled for.

His comparison was not a bad one and Dawes is also a pretty good player.

 

[haohmaru]

I did not bring up Zuccarello to compare them as players. If you can't understand that, I am not going to spoon feed you everything.

While I think your counterpart is a little over the top in his aggressiveness toward your responses, I do think he has a point even if you're not comparing players but comparing development.

Dawes played for 5 teams, some of them really bad, and couldn't stick in the NHL until departing for the KHL - from that point on I don't really think you can compare them when he's playing in an inferior league with a lot more space to work with. His development in the KHL doesn't translate to success here - it's why he's still there. Zucarello had to crack a lineup that was making the playoffs every year and challenging for the Cup while signing as an undrafted free agent - which makes him sticking even that much more difficult. Zooks proved he belongs in the top 6 of nearly any team in the NHL. Dawes has never taken that step.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers gave a soon to be 27 year old Brassard a 5 year contract in 2014. He was good for the first two seasons of the contract. His play dipped in his last season with the Rangers. The Rangers traded him to Ottawa in 2016. Brassard has been terrible in the last three seasons of the contract. He is also on his 4th team since signing that contract. Ottawa. Pittsburgh. Florida. Colorado.

Gorton was fortunate he found a taker for the Brassard contract when he did.

Brassard is a perfect example of the aging curve.

90% of the people here loved him & were crying like Lundqvist was crying about Zuccarello on Sunday afternoon when the Brassard for Mika trade was made.

Kreider will be 29 when his extension starts. How many years of the contract will he be the same player?

If you believe what Carpiniello writes, he brought up the Brassard contract as a reason why the Rangers didn't re-sign Hayes. They signed him to a one year contract and traded him. When he signed that contract last July, you knew Hayes was a goner.

Gorton's comments on Monday about Kreider were so noncommittal. We're going to talk to his people when the time comes and see where we are at. Chris has gotten better every year and is a good player for us right now.

Trade him.

Brooks is so concerned about Stone getting $9.5M in Vegas which has no state and city income tax. Panarin will want $11M to play in New York or California. The number has always been $11M. What did Brooks think Panarin was going to get before Stone agreed to terms in Vegas? Panarin might want more than $11M. More than half of that $11M will go towards taxes. Escrow.

If the Rangers want to add elite talent and speed up the rebuild process, stop getting points in meaningless games. They have tried everything except that over the last 80 years.

 

[darko]

Kreider will get something like 7/49. Like RB said he'll be 29 when that contract kicks in. I think Kreider is gone either at the draft or offseason. His final game this year will be his last for the Rangers.

 

[darko]

Yea you brought him up to compare that he took time to adjust, which took him all of 72 games, while Dawes never adjusted in 6 seasons. Fantastic comparison. Please, for the love of god get off your high horse.

Please more pics of harassing our prospects parents please

Harassing their parents? He's simply chatting to them at the game lol.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Harassing their parents? He's simply chatting to them at the game lol.

Harassing, being a creep, call it what you want.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

While I think your counterpart is a little over the top in his aggressiveness toward your responses, I do think he has a point even if you're not comparing players but comparing development.

Dawes played for 5 teams, some of them really bad, and couldn't stick in the NHL until departing for the KHL - from that point on I don't really think you can compare them when he's playing in an inferior league with a lot more space to work with. His development in the KHL doesn't translate to success here - it's why he's still there. Zucarello had to crack a lineup that was making the playoffs every year and challenging for the Cup while signing as an undrafted free agent - which makes him sticking even that much more difficult. Zooks proved he belongs in the top 6 of nearly any team in the NHL. Dawes has never taken that step.

Yea, maybe a little aggressive but his holier than god attitude around here gets old.

 

[darko]

Harassing, being a creep, call it what you want.

Or just being friendly.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Or just being friendly.

They came to watch their kid play. Give them their peace. Could you imagine if 50 people went up to them every game? Thankfully most people have decent courtesy.

 

[darko]

They came to watch their kid play. Give them their peace. Could you imagine if 50 people went up to them every game? Thankfully most people have decent courtesy.

It's Europe. People over there aren't as uptight as in States.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

While I think your counterpart is a little over the top in his aggressiveness toward your responses, I do think he has a point even if you're not comparing players but comparing development.

Dawes played for 5 teams, some of them really bad, and couldn't stick in the NHL until departing for the KHL - from that point on I don't really think you can compare them when he's playing in an inferior league with a lot more space to work with. His development in the KHL doesn't translate to success here - it's why he's still there. Zucarello had to crack a lineup that was making the playoffs every year and challenging for the Cup while signing as an undrafted free agent - which makes him sticking even that much more difficult. Zooks proved he belongs in the top 6 of nearly any team in the NHL. Dawes has never taken that step.

That's not necessarily true. Obviously he won't be scoring 30+ goals or 70+ points in the NHL, but I think his skill and productivity certainly translates into a good 2nd/3rd line player. Moreover, we have no idea why he's still there. I'm fairly confident if he wanted, he could play on an NHL team. Maybe he really loves playing in the KHL. Some players do. He is now a Kazak citizen. I assume he is speaking Russian fluently at this point as well. It's not hard to understand/believe that certain players enjoy their lives there. Despite what many think, the US is not the best place to live on planet earth.

I also think the comparison is fine. And I would go further in arguing that small, skilled wingers often take longer to find their game in NA. There are countless examples. These are the kinds of guys that need to learn how to adapt their style to the more physical game in the west. I think a good comparison is P.A. Parenteau. He took many years shuttling between the AHL and NHL before he finally became an effective player. Of course the classic example would be St. Louis.

It's just not uncommon for smaller, skilled players to take longer to develop. Sure, Dawes had many years here where he had a shot at becoming a valuable player, but maybe he was just a late bloomer. His last real NHL season was when he was 24/25. That's not a good barometer for the player he is now.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Harassing, being a creep, call it what you want.

Some people actually really enjoy being social and talking to other humans.