Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXVIII

[Pawnee Rangers]

I think you need to make peace with the reality that neither Trouba nor Kreider are going to see the end of their contracts here and that a trade for a center is likely on the table at some point given their obvious interest in Eichel.

Their obvious interest in Eichel or another 1C died they day they resigned Zib. Deader than dead. They have their 1C. The deed is done. Zib is your guy moving forward. Chytil will probably be your 2C next season. It's pretty clear what this team's intentions are. And if they have a chance to upgrade, I'm sure they will but it won't be at Trouba's or Kreider's expense, not for at least three years. I don't get this desire to push out proven guys who perform their roles for "what's behind curtain 2." This isn't about old school or toughness, it's about building a complete lineup with different guys being good at different things. Move Trouba and watch the negative effect it has on a guy like Miller or even Fox. It's not all about 22 and 23 year olds. You need more than that to win.

 

[mas0764]

Trouba is not waiving his No Move for Vancouver

I didn't say we are trading Trouba to Vancouver.

I said I would do a package of Nils/Kravtsov/first/additional piece for Pettersson. And we can fit Pettersson in this year.

Come the offseason, prior to next year, we have to free up cap space. Strome walks of course, but he's doing that anyway.

Probably Kreider or Trouba have to be moved. We'll have to find a taker. Not Vancouver, someone else in a separate deal, 6 months after the Pettersson trade.

 

[Avery16]

Hunt with 93-20 at practice

Awesome.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I do not see this team winning with Zib/Panarin/Kreider as the three main forwards, actually.

That's why I've always advocated for trading Kreider, and riding Panarin as the bridge to an elite Kakko and Lafreniere, and continuing to search for elite centers to support them. Zibanejad is a tough case but it's resolved now that he has that contract.

Well you're going to be one angry little poster for the next few years. Cause it's those guys followed by Kakko, Chytil, and Laff.

 

[duhmetreE]

I hate that I'm agreeing with Brooksie more and more but he's been hitting on some good articles. Lundkvist should absolutely be in the AHL right now, it hurts neither the team nor him.

I love Brooksie.

 

[Fitzy]

I think you need to make peace with the reality that neither Trouba nor Kreider are going to see the end of their contracts here and that a trade for a center is likely on the table at some point given their obvious interest in Eichel.

The tricky thing is that we are in no way ready to get rid of Kreider or Trouba yet.

In two years Trouba could be quite replaceable, but not today. Our defense goes back to bottom 5 in the league without him.

 

[GAGLine]

.... because he wants to play for someone else, like Vancouver.

He's an attractive piece for other teams still especially if he tears up the KHL which he appears to be doing.



So? The whole point of Vancouver doing this would be if they want multiple pieces for one, for the future.



Dunno what to tell you, somehow all other star players get similar packages.

And what incentive does Vancouver have to make this deal?

 

[MrAlmost]

I think you need to make peace with the reality that neither Trouba nor Kreider are going to see the end of their contracts here and that a trade for a center is likely on the table at some point given their obvious interest in Eichel.

I think the likelihood of those players seeing the ends of their contracts are better than you think. TV deal and gates have already helped so much.

 

[mas0764]

Their obvious interest in Eichel or another 1C died they day they resigned Zib.

No, that's not true. Per Vince:

Jack Eichel trade: NY Rangers chances before Vegas move

The original dream had been to team Eichel with Zibanejad to create arguably the best 1-2 center punch in the NHL, but the focus shifted to Plan B in the last couple months.

Zibanejad is locked up for the long haul, while Chytil signed a two-year, $4.6 million deal over the summer. Perhaps he'll convince the Rangers he can be their second-line center, but they'll keep their antenna up for other options.

^ 1) They want an elite center to play with Mika, and

2) They are still looking for center options despite Chytil.

If Pettersson was to become available, they would engage.

And if they have a chance to upgrade, I'm sure they will but it won't be at Trouba's or Kreider's expense, not for at least three years.

So whose expense will it be at?

Where is the money coming from if they were to have a shot at Pettersson?

Like I said, I'm all ears as to who it would be.

But I don't see an easy answer besides Trouba or Kreider.

And since you yourself say "in three years," they will be willing to move on from these guys, I don't see why they wouldn't move that timeline up a bit.

It's for an elite future 1C. You move middle six wingers and middle pair defenders to make room for elite centers.

I don't get this desire to push out proven guys who perform their roles for "what's behind curtain 2."

You don't understand why the team might want an elite PPG type center to pair with Mika instead of a second pair defender of whom they have a carbon copy playing in Hartford?

This isn't about old school or toughness, it's about building a complete lineup with different guys being good at different things. Move Trouba and watch the negative effect it has on a guy like Miller or even Fox. It's not all about 22 and 23 year olds. You need more than that to win.

The team needs another top center to be a realistic Cup contender. Could they win without one? Yeah, it's possible.

But it's not likely.

They should be trying to build into a likely winner, not a long shot that defies all odds.

That means getting another center.

As much as I've trashed the org this offseason, at least it's clear they know they need a center (see above).

 

[PuckLuck3043]

My take on the situation is that they wanted to roll out the red carpet for Nils coming over to NA by guaranteeing him a spot next to his countryman. I feel like the leash is getting shorter for him now that its almost Thanksgivingand Jones will soon get a chance if Lundkvist doesn't improve his play soon.

I think AHL time would be good for Lundkvist because hes really not playing his game right now. I dont think weve seen him take a single slapshot yet in the NHL, which was his bread and butter offensively in the SHL.

He would benefit the most on this team to go down to Hartford, relax, and learn. IMO they probably told him he had a spot on the big club to get him to sign the ELC, and like you said they signed Nemeth to help him. It's apparent it isn't working and Jones would make this team better. How long they continue icing this struggling 3rd pair is anybody's guess.

 

[mas0764]

Well you're going to be one angry little poster for the next few years. Cause it's those guys followed by Kakko, Chytil, and Laff.

I'm used to the Rangers not making smart moves, nothing new.

 

[McRanger92]

Well, I trust what Edge reported.

If you don't, that's fine.

Like I said, if the Strome offer isn't that high, then I don't have a problem self renting.

I'm not gonna be here yelling at the wall if Edge tells us that the best offer at the deadline was a second for Strome. In that case it is what it is.



There aren't many precedents for better deals than that.

First of all, star 22 year old centers don't get dealt without some reason that their team wants to move on. But entering a rebuild is one of those reasons.

Nash, Eichel, Stone... there is a long history of these kind of stars bringing back 4-asset packages (or less).

A Nils-Kravtsov-first-lesser piece package would be right in line with historical precedent.

Is that package going to pry Pettersson from Vancouver's cold, dead fingers? Of course not. If they decide he's the centerpiece they are building around, they won't trade him for anything. But if they decide they want to use him to spark a rebuild like Ottawa did by moving Stone, that package is very generous and is probably a winner.



Pretty sure you said that already. It's only true if they don't have the opportunity to add another young center.

If they get the chance, they will. Just like they were in on Eichel.



I like Chytil but he's an unknown. We can focus on him all we want and he may never be an elite 2C.

Meanwhile Kravtsov is off the reservation, Nils or another defender is already earmarked to be traded for a center upgrade. Or are we just gonna let all these defensive prospects wither on the vine? We can't play them all with the big club, it's not possible. A consolidation-for-upgrade trade is necessary at some point.

Why not this one? Because it will mean we have to move Trouba?

Clutching at pearls with this. It's Jacob friggin' Trouba and we have a carbon copy playing in Hartford right now.

You can keep dreaming on Pettersson. Its not happening, i dont have much more to say about that honestly.

As for the D situation, the Rangers cant even ice a functional third pair right now, yet somehow we have too many defenseman and can trade our second most important guy? Its not about 'pearl clutching" on Trouba, its about common sense.

 

[mas0764]

The tricky thing is that we are in no way ready to get rid of Kreider or Trouba yet.

In two years Trouba could be quite replaceable, but not today. Our defense goes back to bottom 5 in the league without him.

Losing Trouba means we take a hit on D for sure, but reinforcements are coming there sooner rather than later because of all the top end kids we have.

But securing a 22 year old franchise center to play behind Mika is worth way, way more.

And we all know a consolidation trade is coming. We have too many defenders to play as it is.

Turning down a package based around Nils and Kravtsov for Pettersson because "it will force us to trade Trouba too early," is just silly.

We are a better team tomorrow and long term with Pettersson instead of Trouba.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

No, that's not true. Per Vince:

Jack Eichel trade: NY Rangers chances before Vegas move



^ 1) They want an elite center to play with Mika, and

2) They are still looking for center options despite Chytil.

If Pettersson was to become available, they would engage.



So whose expense will it be at?

Where is the money coming from if they were to have a shot at Pettersson?

Like I said, I'm all ears as to who it would be.

But I don't see an easy answer besides Trouba or Kreider.

And since you yourself say "in three years," they will be willing to move on from these guys, I don't see why they wouldn't move that timeline up a bit.

It's for an elite future 1C. You move middle six wingers and middle pair defenders to make room for elite centers.



You don't understand why the team might want an elite PPG type center to pair with Mika instead of a second pair defender of whom they have a carbon copy playing in Hartford?



The team needs another top center to be a realistic Cup contender. Could they win without one? Yeah, it's possible.

But it's not likely.

They should be trying to build into a likely winner, not a long shot that defies all odds.

That means getting another center.

As much as I've trashed the org this offseason, at least it's clear they know they need a center (see above).

Because in your world, you're trading for a player who isn't even on the block and making room for this player by moving two guys who have NTCs. And you wanna talk about defying all odds... My god man.

 

[mas0764]

You can keep dreaming on Pettersson. Its not happening, i dont have much more to say about that honestly.

If it doesn't, as I've said, it's because Vancouver doesn't want to trade him.

The Rangers would jump into the conversation if he was made available.

As for the D situation, the Rangers cant even ice a functional third pair right now, yet somehow we have too many defenseman and can trade our second most important guy? Its not about 'pearl clutching" on Trouba, its about common sense.

Fox
Lindgren
KAM
Nils
Robertson
Schneider
Jones
Trouba

Yes, we have more defenders in the system under our control than we can eventually play.

 

[McRanger92]

He would benefit the most on this team to go down to Hartford, relax, and learn. IMO they probably told him he had a spot on the big club to get him to sign the ELC, and like you said they signed Nemeth to help him. It's apparent it isn't working and Jones would make this team better. How long they continue icing this struggling 3rd pair is anybody's guess.

I do think the fact that the team is rounding into form gives them some leeway with Lundkvist. He hasn't been impressive and I'm in favor of swapping him and Jones, but right now he isnt actively detrimental to the team. It seems like a confidence thing, and we know better than most what happens when young players lack confidence

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Getting the spot just cause you are a vet is kind of the definition of not getting the spot on merit.

Yes and no. Nemeth's number were not bad and he was signed to a 3 mil per contract. Being a vet at least shows you can play in the NHL as opposed to somebody who has never played a game there. Nemeth was always going to play and the competition in preseason never included him. It was between Lundkvist and Jones and Jones played a lot better.

 

[NYR Viper]

Domi could be an interesting option for this team on a medium term contract depending on what he is asking for. He plays both center and wing and can play 2C or 3C. He's hard to play against and at 26, he is the right age to invest in for a 3-4 year deal at a reasonable cap number if he will take it. Would be nice insurance to someone like Chytil as a 2/3C and probably costs significantly less than Strome as a UFA as well as less term.

 

[mas0764]

Because in your world, you're trading for a player who isn't even on the block

This entire conversation is a hypothetical for if Pettersson were to become available.

Saying "but he's not available," is not a constructive part of the discussion.

and making room for this player by moving two guys who have NTCs.

Moving ONE of two players, not both, don't be disingenuous, that's called lying.

And for like the fifth time, if you have other alternatives for how we can free up that cap space I'm all ears.

But if I was running the show, turning down a Pettersson trade because we have to keep Kreider or Trouba would not be one of the acceptable options.

Pettersson is a mandatory addition for both the near future and long term future for this team. If I can get him for a package centered around Nils and Kravtsov I do that tomorrow.

Come the offseason I see what I have to do. If I have to pay to move Trouba, so be it.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

If it doesn't, as I've said, it's because Vancouver doesn't want to trade him.

The Rangers would jump into the conversation if he was made available.



Fox
Lindgren
KAM
Nils
Robertson
Schneider
Jones
Trouba

Yes, we have more defenders in the system under our control than we can eventually play.

Legit
Legit
On his way
Unsure
Unsure
Unsure
Legit

That's the situation with their D at this moment. And you want to move their 2nd most important player at the position (or the forward leading the team in goals). Personally, I'd rather wait and see what Chtyil is capable of before doing anything else. I mean, you yourself said their window isn't open yet, what's the rush before seeing if Chytil can't slot in?

 

[huerter]

If at any time of the day, any day of the year, you are able to trade Trouba (FOR PICKS HAHAHA, that's a knee slapper) then you do it with the ciseness of EB watching Tiger comeback videos.

 

[mas0764]

Legit
Legit
On his way
Unsure
Unsure
Unsure
Legit

That's the situation with their D at this moment. And you want to move their 2 most important player at the position. Personally, I'd rather wait and see what Chtyil is capable of before doing anything else. I mean, you yourself said their window isn't open yet, what's the rush before seeing if Chytil can't slot in?

The rush is that I'm constantly combating people who want to trade assets for the Reilly Smiths of the world because they keep saying "now's our time!" during the first serious year we can even make the playoffs. If it were up to me, there would be no rush at all because definitely Kreider and possibly even Zibanejad already would have been traded and we'd have two or three other young centers in our pipeline.

The rush is that if the team wants to win with Panarin/Zibanejad, and is therefore unwilling to trade chips for a Lundell type who is "too far away," then it needs to make a move for an Eichel type who is both young enough to win later with Kakko/Laf but good enough to win now with Panarin/Zibanejad. It NEEDS another center better than Chytil to compete realistically during that Kreider/Panarin/Zibanejad window.

If they want to just wait till Chytil is elite and Kakko and Laf explode, then they should have continued to trade away for futures - Kreider should have been moved, Buch should have been moved for futures instead of a play-now grit addition in Blais.

If they want to win now, then they need another center. But as I cling to the last vestiges of hope that this team will try to build a roster that can win for a decade and not just before Kreider turns to stone, that needs to be a YOUNG center who can grow with Kakko and Laf. Eichel fit that bill. Pettersson would fit the bill.

And since we KNOW a consolidation trade is coming with our young defenders, and Kravtsov is already off the reservation, if we can build a package around Nils/Kravtsov, its basically a no-loss trade for us.

The only loss then comes when we have to move Kreider or Trouba's salary.

Ok. That's a swap I can not only live with, but is necessary for this franchise's future.

Not moving Trouba EVER because "we need him," means you never open a spot for guys like Robertson and they lose their value over time.

Time to parlay. Trouba out and Pettersson in is a massive upgrade for us, and we have talent equivalents for Trouba on hand. We do not have Pettersson equivalents on hand.

But again - if there's a way to keep Trouba and add Pettersson, please show me the math, I'm all ears.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

It does hurt the team. The alternative right now is Tinordi. There's an absolute chasm between Lundkvist and Tinordi.

Or they bring up Jones. Tinordi is not their only option.

 

[NYR Viper]

Bitetto really wasn't THAT bad last year either.

There is also Reunanen

 

[kovazub94]

Letting Fast walk and trading Buch were unpopular with the locker room, but it was the offseason. It wasn't at the trade deadline. It didn't affect chemistry.

If, hypothetically, the Rangers get to the deadline with 94 points in 73 games, (105 point pace) and Drury decides to sell the second line center, that action is fundamentally telling every player on the team that Drury doesn't believe in the team. Some players may not care, but when you have a goal in mind that was set at the beginning of the year by your boss and he says you can't do it, maybe next year, you will lose your motivation and be pissed.

Obviously you believe the Rangers won't even make it to the playoff picture and then yeah, sell strome, who cares, but there is little reason to believe this team is going nowhere when we are currently on pace for 114 points over 82 games.

If we do want to get a return on Strome, trade him now and find a suitable replacement now.

In vacuum without looking at other moves - you're correct that moving 2C could be perceived as a lack of faith message to the team. But if the Rangers in a separate trade simultaneously bring up someone on expiring contract who fills out the open roster spot (better suited playoff run fit) or even someone who fits better currently AND long-term: it should not have the same "disheartening" impact on the team. For instance If Strome is moved Panarin could get promoted to Zibanejad line with Kreider. If they continue to progress at an accelerated rate Lafreniere - Chytil - Kakko could become a second line, so then it would make sense for Drury to see who's available to be a good fit as 3C for instance.