Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXVIII

[Fitzy]

I hate that I'm agreeing with Brooksie more and more but he's been hitting on some good articles. Lundkvist should absolutely be in the AHL right now, it hurts neither the team nor him.

Brooks is hated by the players and coaches because he’s actually willing to write stuff that is critical.

I don’t like the guy but his takes are pretty good and often consistent with our consensus on here

 

[MrAlmost]

We aren't getting Pettersson. We already have three finesse players at center right now. Perhaps we need a little of something else.

Savard from Montreal would be a smart add. Perhaps they will retain 1 or 1.5. Would make a good 3rd pair RHD.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

Perhaps you should pay more attention to transactions that actually happen?

The Kreider offer was a first and Robertson.

 

[mas0764]

How can you say they'll need a new 1C "relatively soon" when their newly signed 1C's $8.5m/8 year deal hasn't even kicked in yet??

Relative to the ending of the 8 year contract.

I'm not saying next year, but Mika is not going to be their 1C eight years from now.

It would be pretty sweet to have a 26 year old Pettersson slowly taking that over from Mika in 3-4 seasons and then Mika can be an elite 2C for the remainder of his deal.

But no! We need Trouba too much! Even though we have more defenders than we can possibly ice.

 

[McRanger92]

Perhaps you should pay more attention to transactions that actually happen?

The Kreider offer was a first and Robertson. Teams overpay at the deadline cause that's what they do. If we can get that, we should take it. I'm not saying we "will," get that offer, I'm saying "if," we get that offer.

The Eichel deal was Krebs, Tuch and a future first and a future second. Nils, Kravtsov, a first and another prospect or pick would be equal or better than that package, plus Eichel is kind of a better player than Pettersson, albeit Pettersson is not injured, so it probably comes out in the wash.

The Rangers have actively been shopping Strome for years and cant get any bites and Kreider is and was absolutely a much more highly regarded player. Also forgive me if im not treating the Robertson + 1st offer as gospel after the fact.

Eichel was also injured and publicly feuding with the organization, if you cant see the difference between his value and Pettersson's than i dont know what to say. Everyone in the NHL knows Buffalo took a major bath in that deal anyway.

This Ranger team is the squad they are going to battle with for the next 3-4 years at least. They wont add another big long term contract unless Laf/Kakko never fully break out. Also if youre so worried about a 2C, why dont we focus on the progression of the 22 year old homegrown center currently on the team in Filip Chytil? Its not always about the shiny new toy

 

[Ola]

With his dad being a fan favorite. I’d take a chance on Domi,

Would this work, Domi for Kravtsov??

Domi is a also an agitator. he’d be a fan favorite like his dad.

I like Domi and especially think he has a bit of untapped upside, but Kravy is a steep price for a rental.

I like Domi because he draws attention at center ice and is quick at getting the puck to his wingers, that is quite common for a good center but something Ziba, Strome and Chytil doesn't do at all really. I think he is a good fit at center for especially Kakko and Laf. Goodrow-Domi-Kakko or Laf-Domi-Goodrow are good line options from my POV.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Relative to the ending of the 8 year contract.

I'm not saying next year, but Mika is not going to be their 1C eight years from now.

It would be pretty sweet to have a 26 year old Pettersson slowly taking that over from Mika in 3-4 seasons and then Mika can be an elite 2C for the remainder of his deal.

But no! We need Trouba too much! Even though we have more defenders than we can possibly ice.

I think you need to make peace with the fact that the organization values players differently than you do. You might actually enjoy watching the games.

 

[DudMan28]

Well, I agree that if the offer for Strome is a second or third, ok, I'll live with self-renting.

I personally would take the second round pick but I understand others who would say no to that.

I wouldn't agree at all if they turned down a first and a prime prospect like they did with Kreider.



Because the Isles and Montreal still lost.

There are cinderella runs from teams, but the vast majority of winners, especially multi-time winners, are not Cinderella teams that ride hot goalies.

You want to win a Cup? Don't try to load up for a one-off hot goalie run.

Follow the template of other winners who actually have rings, not losers who've fallen short.

And the winners almost universally have more forward talent than we currently have, even if Laf and Kakko develop. We are still probably short a top center and another top-6 type forward, especially with Kravtsov gone.

I think people don't want this to be true, because they like our team and don't want to have to move guys they like. But it is true. We aren't there yet.

Yeah, I'll give you that. I don't think were a move away from winning it this year, but we could certainly surprise someone and win a round. Do you see this team truly competing with Zib/Panarin/Kreider as the focal points? I think we're slowly creeping towards an interesting crossroads where 3/6 of our top 6 is getting older, which makes me want to "go for it" sooner than later.

 

[Machinehead]

I hate that I'm agreeing with Brooksie more and more but he's been hitting on some good articles. Lundkvist should absolutely be in the AHL right now, it hurts neither the team nor him.

It does hurt the team. The alternative right now is Tinordi. There's an absolute chasm between Lundkvist and Tinordi.

 

[DudMan28]

It does hurt the team. The alternative right now is Tinordi. There's an absolute chasm between Lundkvist and Tinordi.

If we move Nemeth to his off side to play Tinordi why doesn't the team bring Jones up and do the same?

 

[McRanger92]

It does hurt the team. The alternative right now is Tinordi. There's an absolute chasm between Lundkvist and Tinordi.

Tinordi should be nowhere near this team obviously, but Jones is a better puck mover than Nils and i think that will greatly help Nemeth if they are paired together. Nemeth is a pretty good 'in-zone" defender but the problem is they can never get out because Tinordi handles the puck like a bowling ball and Lundkvist ices it at the first sign of trouble.

 

[GAGLine]

Lundkvist
Kravtsov
1st
Georgiev

for

Pettersson

Trouba for picks in the offseason

Neither deal is remotely realistic. Kravtsov took his ball and went home. He can't play in the NHL until his KHL season is done. Our 1st could end up being in the latter half of the round and Georgiev has been awful this year. Lundkvist is the only attractive piece.

Trouba isn't getting traded. He has an NMC and even if he were to waive it, which team is taking on an 8 mil cap hit without sending cap back?

 

[mas0764]

The Rangers have actively been shopping Strome for years and cant get any bites and Kreider is and was absolutely a much more highly regarded player. Also forgive me if im not treating the Robertson + 1st offer as gospel after the fact.

Well, I trust what Edge reported.

If you don't, that's fine.

Like I said, if the Strome offer isn't that high, then I don't have a problem self renting.

I'm not gonna be here yelling at the wall if Edge tells us that the best offer at the deadline was a second for Strome. In that case it is what it is.

Eichel was also injured and publicly feuding with the organization, if you cant see the difference between his value and Pettersson's than i dont know what to say. Everyone in the NHL knows Buffalo took a major bath in that deal anyway.

There aren't many precedents for better deals than that.

First of all, star 22 year old centers don't get dealt without some reason that their team wants to move on. But entering a rebuild is one of those reasons.

Nash, Eichel, Stone... there is a long history of these kind of stars bringing back 4-asset packages (or less).

A Nils-Kravtsov-first-lesser piece package would be right in line with historical precedent.

Is that package going to pry Pettersson from Vancouver's cold, dead fingers? Of course not. If they decide he's the centerpiece they are building around, they won't trade him for anything. But if they decide they want to use him to spark a rebuild like Ottawa did by moving Stone, that package is very generous and is probably a winner.

This Ranger team is the squad they are going to battle with for the next 3-4 years at least. They wont add another big long term contract unless Laf/Kakko never fully break out.

Pretty sure you said that already. It's only true if they don't have the opportunity to add another young center.

If they get the chance, they will. Just like they were in on Eichel.

Also if youre so worried about a 2C, why dont we focus on the progression of the 22 year old homegrown center currently on the team in Filip Chytil? Its not always about the shiny new toy

I like Chytil but he's an unknown. We can focus on him all we want and he may never be an elite 2C.

Meanwhile Kravtsov is off the reservation, Nils or another defender is already earmarked to be traded for a center upgrade. Or are we just gonna let all these defensive prospects wither on the vine? We can't play them all with the big club, it's not possible. A consolidation-for-upgrade trade is necessary at some point.

Why not this one? Because it will mean we have to move Trouba?

Clutching at pearls with this. It's Jacob friggin' Trouba and we have a carbon copy playing in Hartford right now.

 

[Machinehead]

If we move Nemeth to his off side to play Tinordi why doesn't the team bring Jones up and do the same?

Tinordi should be nowhere near this team obviously, but Jones is a better puck mover than Nils and i think that will greatly help Nemeth if they are paired together. Nemeth is a pretty good 'in-zone" defender but the problem is they can never get out because Tinordi handles the puck like a bowling ball and Lundkvist ices it at the first sign of trouble.

We could do Jones, yes, but I also sort of feel like if the Rangers wanted Jones in, he would be in.

I'm kind of puzzled by the Jones situation. I felt he was a shoo-in after the cup of coffee he had last year. As it stands, he's not even cracking the league's worst bottom pair.

 

[mas0764]

I think you need to make peace with the fact that the organization values players differently than you do. You might actually enjoy watching the games.

I think you need to make peace with the reality that neither Trouba nor Kreider are going to see the end of their contracts here and that a trade for a center is likely on the table at some point given their obvious interest in Eichel.

 

[DudMan28]

We could do Jones, yes, but I also sort of feel like if the Rangers wanted Jones in, he would be in.

I'm kind of puzzled by the Jones situation. I felt he was a shoo-in after the cup of coffee he had last year. As it stands, he's not even cracking the league's worst bottom pair.

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me. He was one of our best defenders in preseason. Nemeth won the spot on merit, not preseason play.

 

[mas0764]

Yeah, I'll give you that. I don't think were a move away from winning it this year, but we could certainly surprise someone and win a round. Do you see this team truly competing with Zib/Panarin/Kreider as the focal points? I think we're slowly creeping towards an interesting crossroads where 3/6 of our top 6 is getting older, which makes me want to "go for it" sooner than later.

I do not see this team winning with Zib/Panarin/Kreider as the three main forwards, actually.

That's why I've always advocated for trading Kreider, and riding Panarin as the bridge to an elite Kakko and Lafreniere, and continuing to search for elite centers to support them. Zibanejad is a tough case but it's resolved now that he has that contract.

 

[Ola]

On Lundkvist, I haven't read Brooks article.

But I definitely think it is warranted to add a bit of a nuanced picture of him, and its one I've been considering for a few weeks but haven't had time to bring up.

I've seen a lot of comments about how he isn't really a puck mover or a good stickhandler, but a guy with a good shot, who is OK defensively but undersized. Give or take.

But I would definitely say that (a) Nils is a good stickhandler and a puckmoving D, but (b) he clearly isn't confident yet to play his full game in the NHL. From the get go, the pucks were bouncing for him and he was nervous, and he clearly haven't been able to shake that. He -- is -- a D who should be calm and poised with the puck and he is capable of regularly turning away forcheckers.

But clearly, he hasn't been able to do that for us yet. Should he be demoted or just given a game here and there in the NHL till he puts it together? That is anybody's guess. I don't know. I think his struggles have been ongoing for a quite long time now. Perhaps its better to go to the AHL?

Lastly, I want to add that I don't think he is an "elite" puck moving D either, and I posted many times about that before he came over, that we shouldn't overrate his PMD ability. But -- he should definitely have potential to become good in that area at the NHL level, but behind the elite group.

 

[rangers1314]

Hunt with 93-20 at practice

 

[mas0764]

Neither deal is remotely realistic. Kravtsov took his ball and went home.

.... because he wants to play for someone else, like Vancouver.

He's an attractive piece for other teams still especially if he tears up the KHL which he appears to be doing.

He can't play in the NHL until his KHL season is done.

So? The whole point of Vancouver doing this would be if they want multiple pieces for one, for the future.

Our 1st could end up being in the latter half of the round and Georgiev has been awful this year. Lundkvist is the only attractive piece.

Dunno what to tell you, somehow all other star players get similar packages.

 

[McRanger92]

We could do Jones, yes, but I also sort of feel like if the Rangers wanted Jones in, he would be in.

I'm kind of puzzled by the Jones situation. I felt he was a shoo-in after the cup of coffee he had last year. As it stands, he's not even cracking the league's worst bottom pair.

My take on the situation is that they wanted to roll out the red carpet for Nils coming over to NA by guaranteeing him a spot next to his countryman. I feel like the leash is getting shorter for him now that its almost Thanksgivingand Jones will soon get a chance if Lundkvist doesn't improve his play soon.

I think AHL time would be good for Lundkvist because hes really not playing his game right now. I dont think weve seen him take a single slapshot yet in the NHL, which was his bread and butter offensively in the SHL.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me. He was one of our best defenders in preseason. Nemeth won the spot on merit, not preseason play.

Actually it was Lundkvist who was given the spot without merit. Jones outplayed him this preseason. Nemeth was always going to play on the 3rd pair with the contract he just signed and he's a vet. They are never going to play 2 rookies on that pair.

 

[mas0764]

Yeah I do wonder what's the hold up on Nils unleashing a slapshot. Figure at some point just let it rip buddy.

 

[Savant]

Relative to the ending of the 8 year contract.

I'm not saying next year, but Mika is not going to be their 1C eight years from now.

It would be pretty sweet to have a 26 year old Pettersson slowly taking that over from Mika in 3-4 seasons and then Mika can be an elite 2C for the remainder of his deal.

But no! We need Trouba too much! Even though we have more defenders than we can possibly ice.

Trouba is not waiving his No Move for Vancouver

 

[mas0764]

Actually it was Lundkvist who was given the spot without merit. Jones outplayed him this preseason. Nemeth was always going to play on the 3rd pair with the contract he just signed and he's a vet. They are never going to play 2 rookies on that pair.

Getting the spot just cause you are a vet is kind of the definition of not getting the spot on merit.