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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVIII

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NYR Viper said:
I think that if TB was smart, they would be drafting and developing goalies regularly to keep that positions cap hit down, yes. If they don't have anyone internally when he is about to reach UFA then there is no choice but I am of the opinion that having a goalie making $3-5M is a very smart business decision with the way the cap has effected spending elsewhere.

Also, didn't TB already do this? They spent a 1st rounder on Vaz when they had Bishop. How many people would complain if the Rangers did the same?
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I personally think vaz is a unique jewel of a goalie that helps make that team tick. Their offense is absurd, but in part that's because they don't have to worry if they give up some high quality shots. I don't have the metrics, but games i do watch of their vaz certainly seems to be a difference maker on the attitude and play of the team. In some ways he provides what henke gave to our older teams but without the frequency of those softy goals in bad situations.
 
Machinehead said:
It's not even March and Tampa has 92 points. They could feasibly lose every remaining game and make the playoffs.

They have one of the most stacked rosters in recent memory in a cap league and they're still coming up in rumors for major targets.

At some point, the league needs to do something about the significant advantage they have.
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It isn't really that significant though. They have had the same advantage since their inception and one cup to show for it. Really only in the last few years have they been a power house. I think it is a testament to a good organizational philosophy and good drafting. They have made Tampa a desirable location to play. They got Kucherov to sign a contract that is the biggest bargain in the NHL at the moment. They have a 75 point rookie on an ELC contract.

The Panthers share the same advantage and look what they have achieved?

Do you allow Montreal to spend over the cap because of their high tax rates?

Without going down a rabbit hole, policy decisions have consequences that go far beyond immediate visibility. As much as I would love for the Rangers to be able to spend over the cap because of ridiculous NY tax rates, that is a slippery slope that is dangerous and can morph into an untamable beast.
 
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bleedblue94 said:
I personally think vaz is a unique jewel of a goalie that helps make that team tick. Their offense is absurd, but in part that's because they don't have to worry if they give up some high quality shots. I don't have the metrics, but games i do watch of their vaz certainly seems to be a difference maker on the attitude and play of the team. In some ways he provides what henke gave to our older teams but without the frequency of those softy goals in bad situations.
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By no means am I saying he's not a good player. I just don't see the importance of that position in today's league
 
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Machinehead said:
They absolutely deserve credit for putting their team together but nobody else was allowed to keep their team together.

A different cap system other than the NHL's "go **** yourself" hard cap may be a viable solution.
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They really do need to lighten on the cap a LITTLE bit. It makes trading nearly impossible in season.
 
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Gardner McKay said:
It isn't really that significant though. They have had the same advantage since their inception and one cup to show for it. Really only in the last few years have they been a power house. I think it is a testament to a good organizational philosophy and good drafting. They have made Tampa a desirable location to play. They got Kucherov to sign a contract that is the biggest bargain in the NHL at the moment. They have a 75 point rookie on an ELC contract.

The Panthers share the same advantage and look what they have achieved?

Do you allow Montreal to spend over the cap because of their high tax rates?

Without going down a rabbit hole, policy decisions have consequences that go far beyond immediate visibility. As much as I would love for the Rangers to be able to spend over the cap because of ridiculous NY tax rates, that is a slippery slope that is dangerous and can morph into an untamable beast.
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Again, their drafting and developing should be commended. Florida and Dallas don't do the same because they never had a player like Kucherov. Credit to Tampa.

The issue I have is that Tampa has him on such a bargain contact because he's clearing salary that would require a 12 AAV in most NHL cities.

Small market teams have always been more competitive in leagues with a soft cap because they don't have to give a kidney to keep what they drafted and developed themselves.
 
DanielBrassard said:
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Machinehead said:
Again, their drafting and developing should be commended. Florida and Dallas don't do the same because they never had a player like Kucherov. Credit to Tampa.

The issue I have is that Tampa has him on such a bargain contact because he's clearing salary that would require a 12 AAV in most NHL cities.

Small market teams have always been more competitive in leagues with a soft cap because they don't have to give a kidney to keep what they drafted and developed themselves.
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I'm trying to find the thread but there was one on NHL Talk within the last month or two. IIRC, LatvianTwist did the math and it wasn't as significant as we think.

I think the Kucherov contract is also a bit of a discount because he wants to play there. If he was on Florida, I'd venture a guess he would NOT be taking 9.5 to play there.

I mean, if I was a player I'd take less to play in Tampa. Taxes aside, the city is nice, they have a beautiful arena and a great team. When I saw the Rangers play in 2014 at Amalie arena I was so impressed with what the Lightning have.
 
Machinehead said:
They absolutely deserve credit for putting their team together but nobody else was allowed to keep their team together.

A different cap system other than the NHL's "go **** yourself" hard cap may be a viable solution.
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Gardner McKay said:
Now this I completely agree with.
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MahomesIsGod said:
They really do need to lighten on the cap a LITTLE bit. It makes trading nearly impossible in season.
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Which basketball has figured out.

"That's nice, you play in Orlando/Dallas, and your players don't pay state tax. Okay, I play in NYC/Chicago/LA, and my team makes a shit-ton more than yours, so I don't mind paying a luxury tax. Everybody wins."

*Note: you'll never be able to eliminate cheap owner/small market problems, but this scenario helps them to be competitive also, if they want to be, because they get the benefit of the tax. Combine that with a salary floor (to prevent an owner imitating Jeffrey Loria) and you've got the best mix, IMO.
 
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NYR Viper said:
By no means am I saying he's not a good player. I just don't see the importance of that position in today's league
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Considering some of the whack goalies who have won Stanley Cups in the last 15 years I agree.

Same goes for the fact that quality starters and more get poached from late round draft picks or UDFAs pretty frequently. It's not that a goalie isn't important, but rather that building around one probably made a lot more sense in 1998.
 
Brooklyn Rangers Fan said:
Which basketball has figured out.

"That's nice, you play in Orlando/Dallas, and your players don't pay state tax. Okay, I play in NYC/Chicago/LA, and my team makes a ****-ton more than yours, so I don't mind paying a luxury tax. Everybody wins."

*Note: you'll never be able to eliminate cheap owner/small market problems, but this scenario helps them to be competitive also, if they want to be, because they get the benefit of the tax. Combine that with a salary floor (to prevent an owner imitating Jeffrey Loria) and you've got the best mix, IMO.
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And I think Milwaukee has the best record? There's like a hundred people in Milwaukee lol
 
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@Machinehead For the record, I don't disagree with you that there is an advantage. I personally don't believe that it plays as much of a factor as some thing but that is just my opinion.

My fear is that trying to remedy it under the current system would be a giant clusterf***.
 
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I Eat Crow said:
Point is putting up great numbers on a stacked Tampa team that has Hedman, Kucherov, Stamkos, Gourde, Palat, and Johnson.

Zibanejad is putting up a point per game playing on a team with....Kreider and Zuccarello
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That’s fair, but the gap is significant enough in their production that I’d still take Point. Would prefer Point over Stamkos. He’s more important to that team.
 
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