Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVIII

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Shattenkirk is one of those players who is still in today's game but his skillset/abilities are becoming obsolete in the way the game his changed in the last 4-5 years. Bjugstad on the Penguins is another player like that. 2011-12 called and wants these guys back.
 
As for GMGM and the Erat/Forsberg deal, it essentially cost him his job in DC. He's not making the same mistake 2x. Vegas has enough B-level players to go after. They're not giving up prime assets.

the coaching carousel and goalie issues (plus not having a plan to get past the Pens) cost McPhee a new contract in DC. Forsberg was a very small part of it
 
the coaching carousel and goalie issues (plus not having a plan to get past the Pens) cost McPhee a new contract in DC. Forsberg was a very small part of it

It was the icing on the cake and a very big yoke on his face especially after Erat did nothing and the Rangers came back from 3-1 deficits to beat them in 2013 and 2015.
 
After watching Shattenkirk game today...you have to wonder who scouted him for that team friendly deal LOL.....

Yeah, we have for a while gone after several ‘analytics darlings’ and Brooks have several times reported how we supposedly are heavy into analytics, was Gorton listening to someone corsi scouting? Shatty, Smith, Pirri, Clendenning, Names and so forth. What a bunch!

Analytics can be great and must certainly be incorporated into every day business. But you cannot like look at corsi or some lame attempt to make it relative and think it will tell you how well a player plays. AINEC. Girardi was the worst ever and he change team and is now what ahead of McD and Stralsy in Tampa by quite much and has what CF 51.5%. And it’s unfortunate because analytics could probably be more useful then it is — if so many using it weren’t so protective and dared to look at some very obvious sources of error.

Hopefully Gorts will learn going forward. Need to get the right people in. These new tracking things will bring so many new options. Hopefully he will look outside hockey though and use people from other sports who have a little bit more experience of how to use it and aren’t locked into the baseball counting BS. Hockey is so far behind Soccer for example it’s pretty sad.
 
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Move most pieces and aim for top #3 in 2019 draft. Keep Zib and resign Zucc as UFA after his rental value draft pick this summer, because I really doubt a contender team can afford to resign him. Anyway if Calgary end up to sign him for a rental value and playoffs - they have projected cap space at 1.2 mil $.
Unfortunately that ship has long sailed. At this rate we should be praying for a top 7. Too many shitty teams right now. If the Rangers are in the west this year they have a good 75% chance to make the playoffs maybe even better.
 
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Yeah, we have for a while gone after several ‘analytics darlings’ and Brooks have several times reported how we supposedly are heavy into analytics, was Gorton listening to someone corsi scouting? Shatty, Smith, Pirri, Clendenning, Names and so forth. What a bunch!

Analytics can be great and must certainly be incorporated into every day business. But you cannot like look at corsi or some lame attempt to make it relative and think it will tell you how well a player plays. AINEC. Girardi was the worst ever and he change team and is now what ahead of McD and Stralsy in Tampa by quite much and has what CF 51.5%. And it’s unfortunate because analytics could probably be more useful then it is — if so many using it weren’t so protective and dared to look at some very obvious sources of error.

Hopefully Gorts will learn going forward. Need to get the right people in. These new tracking things will bring so many new options. Hopefully he will look outside hockey though and use people from other sports who have a little bit more experience of how to use it and aren’t locked into the baseball counting BS. Hockey is so far behind Soccer for example it’s pretty sad.

I did a project on Corsi and Fenwick in school. The end results? Inconclusive at best. Lol.

Moneyball was interesting in the late 90s/early 2000s but even then, Billy Beane never went to a WS.

Arizona isn't any better with an analytics darling GM.

Analytics are important but like any good cake, it's an ingredient and if too much is put in, it's going to mess with the balance.
 
I did a project on Corsi and Fenwick in school. The end results? Inconclusive at best. Lol.

Moneyball was interesting in the late 90s/early 2000s but even then, Billy Beane never went to a WS.

Arizona isn't any better with an analytics darling GM.

Analytics are important but like any good cake, it's an ingredient and if too much is put in, it's going to mess with the balance.

Because Chakya is a f*** wad who enjoys listening to himself speak more than he does actually assembling a team.
 
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Yeah, we have for a while gone after several ‘analytics darlings’ and Brooks have several times reported how we supposedly are heavy into analytics, was Gorton listening to someone corsi scouting? Shatty, Smith, Pirri, Clendenning, Names and so forth. What a bunch!

Analytics can be great and must certainly be incorporated into every day business. But you cannot like look at corsi or some lame attempt to make it relative and think it will tell you how well a player plays. AINEC. Girardi was the worst ever and he change team and is now what ahead of McD and Stralsy in Tampa by quite much and has what CF 51.5%. And it’s unfortunate because analytics could probably be more useful then it is — if so many using it weren’t so protective and dared to look at some very obvious sources of error.

Hopefully Gorts will learn going forward. Need to get the right people in. These new tracking things will bring so many new options. Hopefully he will look outside hockey though and use people from other sports who have a little bit more experience of how to use it and aren’t locked into the baseball counting BS. Hockey is so far behind Soccer for example it’s pretty sad.
Great points Ola. I personally loved the analytics for the goaltenders as I feel like the numbers and the eyes both meet and go nicely very well together. With 5 skaters there are just too many other variables and randomness that happen in the game of hockey.
 
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So mitigate the difference with picks if needed.

I'd take the risk for a straight swap but I also dont like Buch's game at all (and it hasn't changed much in 3 years )
And when JP inevitably fails what are you left with? Nothing. While Buch is still at worst a middle 6 wingers.

Trading Buchnevich for Puljujarvi, even if Edmonton adds a mid round pick is as bad of an idea as it was 6 hours ago, 6 days ago and 6 weeks ago.

Because Chakya is a **** wad who enjoys listening to himself speak more than he does actually assembling a team.
I know its wrong but I am getting so much joy out of watching Arizona fail. It isn't because I don't like Arizona, I do. It is because many folks anointed Chayka as this brilliant GM from day one.

The fact of the matter is, he is a bad GM. He is one of the GM's I would look to fleece.
 
And when JP inevitably fails what are you left with? Nothing. While Buch is still at worst a middle 6 wingers.

Trading Buchnevich for Puljujarvi, even if Edmonton adds a mid round pick is as bad of an idea as it was 6 hours ago, 6 days ago and 6 weeks ago.


I know its wrong but I am getting so much joy out of watching Arizona fail. It isn't because I don't like Arizona, I do. It is because many folks anointed Chayka as this brilliant GM from day one.

The fact of the matter is, he is a bad GM. He is one of the GM's I would look to fleece.

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the axe after another non playoff season next year.
 
Unfortunately that ship has long sailed. At this rate we should be praying for a top 7. Too many ****ty teams right now. If the Rangers are in the west this year they have a good 75% chance to make the playoffs maybe even better.

We can drop really fast after TDL - it just depends how many players are moved for future if that is the plan - or maybe Jeff Gorton is happy with current 2019 1st pick + Tampa conditional pick to build value. The rebuild is barely one year old - it`s a long process for sure. But I expect the bottom teams to sell as well like Ottawa so we will see when we are closer to April.
 
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We can drop really fast after TDL - it just depends how many players are moved for future if that is the plan - or maybe Jeff Gorton is happy with current 2019 1st pick + Tampa conditional pick to build value. The rebuild is barely one year old - it`s a long process for sure. But I expect the bottom teams to sell as well like Ottawa so we will see when we are closer to April.
Either way Tampa's hands are tied because they can't deal either pick without giving us something to free up those conditions
 
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For everyone trashing Chayka; yeah he's done a bad job but AZ is probably the hardest team to be a GM of in the NHL. There is zero room for error. Can't bring in prime UFAs. Drafting has to be perfect or else it sets that team back for years. No money.

That Hayton pick looks awful.
 
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Darts at a dartboard. As many as we can. Anyone drafted prior to Lias and Chytil should be available.
This next labor agreement/lockout will probably produce some form of buyouts.
Good teams with little to no cap will then have cap. The only way to beat that long term is to have a team full of high end cheap talent.
The Seattle expansion draft will take some of what we have.
If all goes as planned, NEXT year will be our shot at the number one overall draft pick.
The Rangers will be terrible next year, and we would be silly to sign FA's, and try to compete.
 
Hayton is a shittier version of Robert Thomas IMO.

Thats not to say that he's a bad player (he isn't) but he was a massive overdraft at where he was taken.

The only pick I liked less inside of the top 10 was Bouchard and well, I never liked Bouchard.
 
For everyone trashing Chayka; yeah he's done a bad job but AZ is probably the hardest team to be a GM of in the NHL. There is zero room for error. Can't bring in prime UFAs. Drafting has to be perfect or else it sets that team back for years. No money.

So then maybe don’t hire a kid with less experience if it’s so hard. He’s not a god GM.
 
There's two issues with Chayka imo.

First of, credit where it is due, he's a very bright and impressive guy. The way he approaches solving a problem, is very similar to the way many in my business do, that's empirically, and with data.

The first issue is that the data he's using. Hockey, unlike baseball is a fluid sport. There are no stoppages between plays where you can measure and outcome from start to stop.

The second issue is, hockey unlike basketball, another fluid sport, does not have it's situational passing/shooting/scoring mechanism result in a goal more than 5-6 times a game, as opposed to 160 times a game in basketball.

Both of these phenomena present an issue when it comes to data integrity, and order of magnitude. With baseball for example, you have a much higher level of data integrity, lefty v righty, pitch type. Start. stop. Basketball: 3-pt off of screens/drive and dish etc.

So those situational measurements are far more quantifiable. With Corsi for example, it's the same metric of a soft 60 wide attempt on net, as it is a slot shot. Hockey has gotten much better about situational metrics, and group metrics in particular, but the reality of it is that these stats and metrics require a long tail view... which many teams do pay for... but it's a recent trend. Also, different players will perform differently in the same metrics on different systems so there's no normalization curve.

So what's the point of this: Chayka and co might be too early for what they really need. Which are a universal set of metrics that have a high differential value, and can be replicated over and over again.

Does the game of hockey have some of these? Yes. But sparse, and circumstantial at best.

Here's one:

3 RH shots on the PP. LH half walk, RH Point man. Net front is a preferred RH shot. Sniper from the off-wing key. LH playmaker below the circle. PP is a 1-3-1. Teams that run this consistently-> have a 18-26% conversion on the PP. It's very hard to stop. Additionally, the teams that have mastered this, have either won the cup, or been to the conference finals the last few years. They are contenders.

Why is this set up to replicable: because there is less fluidity on the PP, there is a clear and distinct differential value based on the situational setup and outcome.

Here's another: players are tracked on a controlled zone entry, but not just any kind. There are two players who are UFA this year who are going to get wtf contracts according to HFNYR standards. They are checkers. But checkers who are very good and grabbing the puck in the d-zone, and skating into the offensive zone, often times solo, and allowing their team to get a fresh line change while establishing a forecheck.

One plays on a very good team, one on a crappy team, but he can score. HFNYR value for one of those guys would be your typical $1.5M 4th liner, and the other as a stretch for $3.5M. The "4th liner" is going to get 4 years at $2.5M minimum. The $3.5M player is going to get 4 years at a minimum of $4M, maybe higher.

Why is this set up to replicable: because there is a clear and distinct differential value based on the situational setup and outcome, and it can be stack ranked against their peers.

Just some food for thought.

Bloggers: Feel free to run with this. Your content needs some refreshing.
 
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