Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVII – Fortnight, Not Fortnite

[Paulie Walnutz]

The Rangers taking on Callahan's contract with no money going back to TB is the best deal for both teams.

TB sends the Rangers their 1st in June dropping the conditional terms. TB sends the Rangers a 2nd in 2020 to complete the McDonagh deal. Maybe Gorton squeezes a little more from TB. The Lightning get back future considerations which are nothing.

The Rangers have the space to absorb Callahan's $5.8M cap hit in combination with the other Rangers trades. TB gets the space to add another player or two at the deadline. They are right up the cap right now. They free up money to go towards re-signing Point.

The Rangers have 44 SPC's so they have the room. Take back contracts in a trade instead of retaining money. They have two retention slots left. Do a combination of both things.

Use those freed up contracts to sign college free agents who are put on the active roster to start their contracts early and they become free agents earlier is the other option.

It's only one season for Callahan. It goes fast. Winter. Spring. Summer. Fall. Winter.

Does Callahan have a NTC or NMC? That could be an issue.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Isn't Kreiders dependency on being a physical freak to be as he is now more of a negative if we are contemplating signing him on a long contract taking him into his middle 30's?

Silky mitts and high hockey-IQ usually age better then fast skating and physical play. If Kreider losses a step and starting to get more brittle when he play the power game we are stuck with a 7 million net presence player.

Kreider is absolutly worth a 7 year 7 million contract if he can perform as he do now, but for me the risk is to high when we still are some years from going for the cup. I'm sure Kreider will be very good when he is 30, but he will sign a long term contract when he is 29. Will he still be as good when he is 33 or 35?

That is a risk I personally would not take at this time. I would rather have a bluechip prospect and a 1. round pick.

He’s not only a physical freak, but he’s extremely well-conditioned with a rigorous workout regimen, which is something that also ages well. He’s also a strong netfront presence. l’d be more worried a mediocre skater losing a step, than a skater like Kreider.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Isn't Kreiders dependency on being a physical freak to be as he is now more of a negative if we are contemplating signing him on a long contract taking him into his middle 30's?

Silky mitts and high hockey-IQ usually age better then fast skating and physical play. If Kreider losses a step and starting to get more brittle when he play the power game we are stuck with a 7 million net presence player.

Kreider is absolutly worth a 7 year 7 million contract if he can perform as he do now, but for me the risk is to high when we still are some years from going for the cup. I'm sure Kreider will be very good when he is 30, but he will sign a long term contract when he is 29. Will he still be as good when he is 33 or 35?

That is a risk I personally would not take at this time. I would rather have a bluechip prospect and a 1. round pick.

Im in complete agreement here. I think theres some ignorance on where the game is/is headed to state that Kreider will age well. Right now, Kreider has two great attributes - he can skate like the wind, and hes a tough player to deal with in front of the net. The latter won't go away. The former will, and when it does, he's going to be a much less effective player in today's NHL. We got some of the best years out of him. He probably has a few more, but the Rangers should call it a day if they can get some useful assets for the future - all about the return, as usual.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

20pts in last 14 games for Zucc. Make a move!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Does Callahan have a NTC or NMC? That could be an issue.

Both. He has a NMC and a modified NTC

 

[Lion Hound]

Isn't Kreiders dependency on being a physical freak to be as he is now more of a negative if we are contemplating signing him on a long contract taking him into his middle 30's?

Silky mitts and high hockey-IQ usually age better then fast skating and physical play. If Kreider losses a step and starting to get more brittle when he play the power game we are stuck with a 7 million net presence player.

Kreider is absolutly worth a 7 year 7 million contract if he can perform as he do now, but for me the risk is to high when we still are some years from going for the cup. I'm sure Kreider will be very good when he is 30, but he will sign a long term contract when he is 29. Will he still be as good when he is 33 or 35?

That is a risk I personally would not take at this time. I would rather have a bluechip prospect and a 1. round pick.

You mean silky mitts and high IQ like a Dany Heatley? Bobby Ryan fits that description also.

Plus, I keep hearing all his game is speed and power. There’s so much more to it, but let’s start with this. He is the only power forward on the team and in the system. Who’s replacing that? Is there another player who has the net front presence? Nope , not seeeing that either. Is there a player that is equally good along the wall? He’s probably too 3 on the team there.

 

[Ghost of jas]

You mean silky mitts and high IQ like a Dany Heatley? Bobby Ryab fits that description also.

Plus, I keep hearing all his game is speed and power. There’s so much more to it, but let’s start with this. He is the only power forward on the team and in the system. Who’s replacing that? Is there another player who has the net front presence? Nope , not seeeing that either. Is there a player that is equally good along the wall? He’s probably too 3 on the team there.

It appears that you, me and @Machinehead remain the leaders of the Chris Kreider appreciation society. Let the truth come out.

 

[NYR Viper]

Im in complete agreement here. I think theres some ignorance on where the game is/is headed to state that Kreider will age well. Right now, Kreider has two great attributes - he can skate like the wind, and hes a tough player to deal with in front of the net. The latter won't go away. The former will, and when it does, he's going to be a much less effective player in today's NHL. We got some of the best years out of him. He probably has a few more, but the Rangers should call it a day if they can get some useful assets for the future - all about the return, as usual.

Yeah I keep going back and forth on Kreider. I am concerned about any deal that is longer than 4 years that starts at 29. I'd probably go to 5 to make it work but why would Kreider accept that? Many of his peers will be getting 7 year deals. Guys who are less impactful on the game. If I were Chris' agent I'd start off asking for 7 x $7.5m. There will be teams out there who would jump at that too. If Columbus loses Panarin and doesn't get Stone/Duchene this off-season, I could see them going HARD after Kreider. He'd fit their team to a 'T'.

I think I would lean towards dealing him if the right offer came along but it's going to be painful watching him for the next 3-4 years be that impactful power forward that is so hard to find.

 

[Blue Blooded]

He’s not only a physical freak, but he’s extremely well-conditioned with a rigorous workout regimen, which is something that also ages well. He’s also a strong netfront presence. l’d be more worried a mediocre skater losing a step, than a skater like Kreider.

His primary strength is his ability to drive play rather than scoring, so even if his scoring rate drops off (more common than play-driving ability disappearing) he will still be a very effective player.

The thing to worry about with someone like Kreider is knee injuries and the like. That big of a body banging around at that speed puts some serious strain on the ligaments. Durability does not scale linearly with size. The small guys can get crushed, but the big guys can implode.

But as mentioned upthread, Wheeler is better than ever and he is huge. Being in peak physical condition helps a ton with injuries and not overloading the ligaments. But I'm not sure whether my belief that Kreider is going to be someone who ages well is rational or motivated reasoning.

 

[apoptygma]

You mean silky mitts and high IQ like a Dany Heatley? Bobby Ryab fits that description also.

Plus, I keep hearing all his game is speed and power. There’s so much more to it, but let’s start with this. He is the only power forward on the team and in the system. Who’s replacing that? Is there another player who has the net front presence? Nope , not seeeing that either. Is there a player that is equally good along the wall? He’s probably too 3 on the team there.

Usualy smart playmakers with good hands decline later and less sharply. Kreider is an awesome and unique player today, but as with all players passing 30 there is a risk of a decline. The timing for a new contract for him compared to where NYR is today is not a good match in my opinion. Had the rebuilt started 3 years ago I would 100% been on board signing him to a 7 year deal and taking the bet that he would perform late into a new contract. Correct player, wrong time.

 

[DutchShamrock]

I’m greedy. If the Rangers are helping TB with their cap situation, I want their 1st in 2020 in addition to the conditions dropped on this year’s 1st. They can keep their prospects.

There are a few of these proposals and I can't help but feel that its unnecessary for us to assume that hit for guaranteeing 31 spots. And I understand that another pick is in play too.

But does anyone really believe that Tampa is going to pay to rid themselves of a contract? Do they make these types of deals? They will send Callahan to a young team with cap space in a hockey deal. He brings leadership and Tampa will get a low level return.

The biggest chip we have is the condition. We tie up 2 picks. Tampa should be paying us to free one up. I don't like the idea of removing the condition while eating up cap. I'd rather use our cap this summer when a half dozen RFAs put their teams in a tough spot. Imagine the Blackhawks messing up with their restricteds back then and dealing off Buff, Ladd ect for pennies. Times that by 6 teams. Let's be available for a cap crunch.

 

[Vitto79]

So would you guys sign Zuc 3 yrs at 5 per ? Or is he getting more as a UFA?

I’d trade him now regardless then see how much he costs to resign and keep the Zib , Kreider like together

 

[Ola]

Okposo or Ryan were never in the same shape that Kreider is in. Neither player ever skated like Kreider either. They aren’t the same type of athlete. Kreider is still young though. I don’t see a sharp decline at 30 for him.

Zucc? That’s another story. He’s arguably playing best hockey if his career right now. I’ll give him that. The motor stopped going earlier in the season. He jump started back up. But he’s older. How long till it goes again?

Yeah of course.

I mentioned Zucc as a comparable to Kreider. Zucc is 4 years younger than Kreider. Can Zucc play 2 more years? If Kreider can play as long as Zucc, that means that Kreider would have 6 years left.

My bet is that Kreider will not decline like for example Cally did. But its hard to say, impossible to know for sure of course. But there is a heck of a difference between if Kreider has 1-2 peak years left or 7-8 peak years left. If you dealt Blake Wheeler away 6-7 years ago because you thought he was done it was a horrible mistake. The Isles made a great move letting Okbozo go but 'made up for it' by bringing in Ladd.

Another one, is Kreider more like Andrew Ladd than Blake Wheeler?

 

[NYRFANMANI]

I'd don't see how Kreider is going to demand 7 million or anything close to that. What? Just because we won't have many high cap contracts and have the space, we should just make him the second highest paid player on the team? I've seen 7.5 here somewhere. Listen, Kreider is valuable to us and he can easily sign at 6m/y, that's how I feel. It would be a great contract. 4 years at 6.25 maybe. His skating is so strong, I don't believe it'll break in, barring injury ofc.

We need to keep the man.

 

[Lone Ranger]

There are a few of these proposals and I can't help but feel that its unnecessary for us to assume that hit for guaranteeing 31 spots. And I understand that another pick is in play too.

But does anyone really believe that Tampa is going to pay to rid themselves of a contract? Do they make these types of deals? They will send Callahan to a young team with cap space in a hockey deal. He brings leadership and Tampa will get a low level return.

The biggest chip we have is the condition. We tie up 2 picks. Tampa should be paying us to free one up. I don't like the idea of removing the condition while eating up cap. I'd rather use our cap this summer when a half dozen RFAs put their teams in a tough spot. Imagine the Blackhawks messing up with their restricteds back then and dealing off Buff, Ladd ect for pennies. Times that by 6 teams. Let's be available for a cap crunch.

Does anyone think that Tampa would take our second rounder to remove the condition on their pick, guaranteeing it's their first? Or, is that too much to give up?

 

[TheTakedown]

Lol the Canadiens are going to ride this weird hot streak straight to a garbage pick and keep being decent but not good enough to do anything.

Kotkaneimi has been a good pick for them. They are banking on building off of him and Shaw taking over that team + a resurgence of Carey Price...

It's worth the risk at this point, but its a fine line

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Yeah of course.

I mentioned Zucc as a comparable to Kreider. Zucc is 4 years younger than Kreider. Can Zucc play 2 more years? If Kreider can play as long as Zucc, that means that Kreider would have 6 years left.

My bet is that Kreider will not decline like for example Cally did. But its hard to say, impossible to know for sure of course. But there is a heck of a difference between if Kreider has 1-2 peak years left or 7-8 peak years left. If you dealt Blake Wheeler away 6-7 years ago because you thought he was done it was a horrible mistake. The Isles made a great move letting Okbozo go but 'made up for it' by bringing in Ladd.

Another one, is Kreider more like Andrew Ladd than Blake Wheeler?

*older

 

[Ghost of jas]

Yeah of course.

I mentioned Zucc as a comparable to Kreider. Zucc is 4 years younger than Kreider. Can Zucc play 2 more years? If Kreider can play as long as Zucc, that means that Kreider would have 6 years left.

My bet is that Kreider will not decline like for example Cally did. But its hard to say, impossible to know for sure of course. But there is a heck of a difference between if Kreider has 1-2 peak years left or 7-8 peak years left. If you dealt Blake Wheeler away 6-7 years ago because you thought he was done it was a horrible mistake. The Isles made a great move letting Okbozo go but 'made up for it' by bringing in Ladd.

Another one, is Kreider more like Andrew Ladd than Blake Wheeler?

You mean Kreider is four years younger than Zucc, right? Anyway, my gut feeling is that Kreider has 4-5 years left of being a top six player before the decline sets in. Which is why I’d be looking for a six-year deal if possible, even bring to give him more money for one less year of term. He’ll still be very effective in front of the net, even if he loses a step skating-wise, so he’ll still have good value.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'd don't see how Kreider is going to demand 7 million or anything close to that. What? Just because we won't have many high cap contracts and have the space, we should just make him the second highest paid player on the team? I've seen 7.5 here somewhere. Listen, Kreider is valuable to us and he can easily sign at 6m/y, that's how I feel. It would be a great contract. 4 years at 6.25 maybe. His skating is so strong, I don't believe it'll break in, barring injury ofc.

We need to keep the man.

No idea why Kreider would entertain the thought of a 4 year deal, but yeah, sure, whatever. If we're living in fantasy land and he's willing to sign that type of extension now....keep the guy.

In the real world, where his demands will be more in line with market value, we should trade him.

 

[RGY]

Had to Google to confirm, but this is accurate.

This one @Thirty One level humor. Nice work

 

[NYRFANMANI]

I say that is his market value. The dude is gonna be 30. Take 4-6 year deal, with a hit around 6 million. Anything more, we should trade him next offseason.

Honestly the single player cap is too high for the overall cap. The more talented players step in, the more contracts are being dished out, old ones persist, the overall cap hit is too slow to follow up. I guess that's what the CBA and all is about.

 

[RGY]

For us to take on Callahan we need the conditions dropped on their 1st this year and get their 1st next year. This isnt a charity event, im sick and tired of helping Tampa prosper the past 5-6 years. We paid a premium for MSL who was at the end of his career...I dont regret it, but we got taken out to the pasture on that one..time to do the same to them. They can then use their prospects to add someone else. Maybe Zucc for Raddysh?

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Getting hosed again with Callahan? There are no conditions. Just mega hard pass. May Tampa rot in cap hell, let them buy him out.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Does anyone regret the Gaborik signing? Without him we're almost challenging Edmonton and Toronto (Boston) for 1OA in 2009-10. We probably don't get all the way there due to Hank, but wind up in the 3-5 range in the end. We pick Ryan Johansen or Erik Gudbranson.

Stone/Panarin being available as UFA is very akin to Gaborik/Hossa being available in 2009. Nobody regretted those signings for a second. Gaborik signed a 5-year deal at the equivalent of $10.6M AAV. Hossa signed a now illegal contract, but the first seven seasons were at the equivalent of $11.1M AAV.

Karlsson being available is not really like Chara being available because he is better than Chara was. Do you think Boston regretted that signing despite being in the middle of a rebuild at the time? Chara was given the equivalent of a $13.6M AAV contract at the time.

This isn't Drury or Redden. These guys aren't "very good" players on the wrong side of 30, these are elite players in the 27-29 range. This type of player had not been available as a UFA for a very long time before Tavares last summer, now we potentially have three in the same summer. If any of these guys are willing to sign with the Rangers at a reasonable rate we have to pull the trigger, esp if they are willing to leave some money on the table to come here. Trading for Ryan Callahan's contract to get a few minor assets and taking us out of that running is not a good idea.

 

[GAGLine]

Does anyone think that Tampa would take our second rounder to remove the condition on their pick, guaranteeing it's their first? Or, is that too much to give up?

Too much to give up. Best case scenario, we get a late 1st instead of an early 2nd and a late 2nd. Maybe that's something we would do at the draft if the value makes sense and there's a player we want to trade up for, but that's the best case scenario here. The worst case is that Tampa wins the cup and we would have gotten their 1st anyway, so we gave up our 2nd for nothing.

I'd much rather take back Callahan to get an upgrade on the pick and/or get other picks. To DutchShamrock's concern about having available cap space, that isn't likely to be an issue. We have $59,536,110 committed to 14 players for next year. We don't know what players we will get back in any deals, and we don't know who else might be traded other than the pending UFAs, but I doubt we're going to see a significant increase in that number by the deadline. If the cap is 83 mil next year, that gives us 23 mil to play with. Cally's cap hit is 5.8 mil, leaving us about 17 mil to fill out 7-8 more spots. At least 3 of those should be ELCs between Kravtsov, Andersson, Meskanen, Rykov, Lindgren and Hajek, so that leaves about 14 mil for 4-5 spots. That's plenty of cap space if we want to take advantage of another team's cap crunch.

If we feel like we need more cap space, we can just buy out Cally. His cap hit would drop to $2,666,667 in 2019-20, saving us $3,133,333, and it would drop to $1,566,667 in 2020-21.