Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVII – Fortnight, Not Fortnite

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Ryan Whitney who is a good buddy of Kevin Hayes.



Maybe the Rangers can leave Hayes in Winnipeg tonight.



Joe Sakic isn't trading any valuable asset. He is concerned about his cap situation. The Avs aren't a cap team. They have to pay Rantanen. They have plenty of room to spend a few more bucks.


Trying to parse my way through this. I'm about 90% sure the Rangers are going to trade Hayes--or at least I haven't heard one thing that they're trying to re-sign him.

But if the Rangers have a general idea of what they want for him (and Joe Sakic can go f*** himself) and there's not a buyer willing to part with that kind of return right now then they should wait and see if they can later on. There's no real rush right now--we've got almost two weeks still.
 
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While I don't want to partake in your anti-freeze adventure I absolutely agree that both would be terrible moves. Why do people want to give something of value for Puljujarvi?.

This remains a complete mystery to me. Also, to put a cherry on top, some are even willing to eat a horrible disgusting contract from Edmonton, like Lucic, no f***ing way.
 
I think a pretty big part of the rebuild is going to be bridge deals. I expect several players who are ending their entry levels to have some major question marks.

I think the key is going to be figuring out if any swap of question marks is more beneficial than the Rangers just bridging their own. In Buch's case I think he is a relatively good bridge deal candidate. If his trade value can not return something at least as talented even if that too has question marks, I'm not sure it would make much sense to move him.

I'd kind of want to see what he does post trade deadline as I think he becomes more of a go to option just due to lack of other options, and while that is not the best thing in the world, maybe that just gets him going for some reason. Seems overall if they moved him they'd be taking back either lesser talent, or even more question marks maybe with even less time for them to figure it out and that seems kind of like a similar risk/ lesser reward scenario.
 
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I defend Lias a lot, but remember that Puljujärvi is only three months older than Lias and he had a better rookie AHL season than Chytil.

Jesse also wasn't a guy who had a great year out of nowhere and shot up the draft boards, he had been scoring at an elite level throughout his junior career. In fact prior to their draft years, Pulju had been a better producer than Laine at every level. I think there is a good chance he can still be a legit player in this league, a star even, and this is the perfect time to acquire him. Bigger guys, and especially the playmakers, usually take a bit longer to figure it out at the NHL level - look at Jumbo Joe. Hayes has taken a huge step at 26 and is having by far the best year of his career.

Great post. The problem for Pulju is that he is huge, 6'5+. He wasn't done growing and still taking his final steps in the SM-liiga when EDM rushed him to the NHL. During his first year the game was just too quick for him, he got to play so much without the puck compared to what he was used to. Never really put in a situation that he could master well. Its the same in the AHL. In the AHL if you pass the puck to a teammate, odds are that you will not get it back. You get a across the blueline and then put it on the net and take it from there. A statement like that can be misinterpreted, but compared to European hockey and also the NHL there really is a significant difference. How is an high octane offensive game played today? Fast passes up ice, give and go's, you move the puck and take a new position and work your way to the net with speed and the puck. And even if the AHL still is adopting, you still often see a more capable guy give the puck to someone and find that open ice, only to see the other guy almost be surprised to get a pass and go like 'oh if you don't want to fire the puck its your loss, I take the shot instead'.

I have no doubt whatsoever that EDM can ruin Pulju beyond salvation. It looks so easy when a kid is put in the right spot. But it is also a big mistake to think that a kid that doesn't score has nothing. The marginals are so small, especially for the bigger guys. I think Pat Laine is a perfect example and the slump he have had lately in Winnipeg. Laine is 2+4 in his last 23 games. Nash's drought in the POs despite leading the league in shots in the post season is another good example. Its a big mistake to think that production in hockey is a direct reflection of how well the player plays. Its easy to fall into the trap that if a player has the ability 100 he will score 80 pts in 80 games, the ability 90 he will score 72 pts in 80 games, the ability 80 he will score 64 pts in 80 games and so forth.

You need certain incidences to score in hockey. You need to accomplish certain things on the ice. If you don't get that, if you can't do what it takes, the scoring will basically disappear. During the regular season the game is more open and its not as drastic, but it can be during the regular season too and especially during the POs. That is why Laine can go from scoring 23 goals in his first 33 games to scoring 2 in his following 22 games or whatever.

Pulju has a ton of underlying ability but has lost several years in his development. Can he still be rescued? Who knows, but he does have potential if you can get him back on track, start putting him in a position to succeed, and build him up again. Seems like a perfect project for a rebuilding team.
 
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With all due respect almost everyone on this boards is not indicative of anything and you have absolutely no idea of what deals the Rangers management would do or not.

Again the trade @GAGLine proposed was just too "fair" for me. The Rangers would only marginally improve by replacing one core piece with another and on top of that we don't know how Huberdeau would fit. Then throwing in Georgiev and taking on Riemer to even up the perceived value even more? I think the Rangers would be giving up too much upside. As a 3OA Huberbeau jumped on the scene and got recognition pretty early. Kreider? It has taken him a while and I think of his career arc to be how people think of Wheelers and that going forward he'd be a perennial 55-60 point LW with dominant advance stats and great intangibles.

I'm not going to ***** and moan if this trade happens but I'm not a fan of trading Kreider in what I look at as a pretty even trade.

While I don't know for sure if they would do this deal, here is what I do know: He is two years younger than Kreider and is locked up for a longer term, thus making it more likely he is still an effective producer when we are ready to compete. It is similar to the Brassard for Zibanejad trade. We get younger and more contract stability from the player.

That is why I make the comment that management would jump all over it, it fits in with the pattern of what they have done.

Puljujarvi definitely has his flaws, but the kid is still only 20 years old and is stuck in a terrible situation in Edmonton. Writing him off this early is totally premature, and I'd be more than happy to take a risk on adding a kid with that much talent. I've ragged on him for his decision making, but I'd still be more than happy to give this kid a shot in an environment that's focused on development.

While I agree that writing him off is premature and I would be fine adding him, it cannot be for a piece as significant as Lias or Buch.
 


Dreger said the Rangers really like McQuaid and they may look to re-signing him this summer.

He also said there’s developing trade interest in Zuccarello.

It’s at the end of the interview.
 
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If you can get a player like Puljujarvi for a 3rd (you can't) you should just always do that because right now he is probably better than that third rounder will ever be. He's already shown that he can score in the AHL and he's in what's widely considered the worst situation in the league in EDM (outside of being stapled to McDavid's wing which he is not).

People overvalue how good 3rd round picks are. Here are the top two forwards in points taken in the 3rd round in all drafts since 2010 (neglecting dmen just because it's easier to judge forwards by points):

2010: Bryan Rust/Joakin Nordstrom
2011: Vincent Trocheck/Adam Lowry
2012: Jimmy Vesey/Brendan Leipsic (Gostisbehere/Parayko here too)
2013: Jake Guentzel/Anthony Duclair
2014: Brayden Point/Warren Foegele
2015: Anthony Cirelli
2016-2018: No data

Back a bit further...2009: Reilly Smith/Cody Eakin...2008:Adam Henrique/Zack Smith...2007:Alex Killorn/Evegeny Dadonov...2006: Brad Marchand/Cal Clutterbuck...2005: Nobody over 38 pts as a forward but Letang was there.

So in 6 full years comprising 180 picks you have 3 first line forwards: Trocheck/Point/Guentzel. Obviously all very good players but on their teams two are 2C and one is stapled to Crosby. If you go back to 2005 you add in obvious 1W Marchand and 1st line wing Dadonov who didn't come to the NHL full time before age 28. That's every draft since the lockout.

You wouldn't trade that for the hope Puljujarvi happens to figure it out?

Look at the history of the third round and then people's expectations for Buchnevich. It doesn't add up.
 
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Sounds like Hayes to Boston and Zucc to Winnipeg. Wouldn’t mind two prospects from the Jets vs. their 1st rounder. Zucc for Lemieux and Virtanen. Hayes at 50% for BOS ‘19 1st, Studnicka & JFK.
Also should not rule out the possibility of asking for next year's 1st.
 
Weren't you the one who said that it was a no-brainer to get JVR and that we should go after Lucic? ;)

JVR at a reasonable price, sure. We need a sniping winger after all.

But Lucic? Nah bro ... maybe like once, when he hit free agency and that's it.

None of those come close to overpaying an unproven prospect AND giving up a 2nd in order to do so...
 
I still don’t think we trade Hayes To Boston when we want to bring him back this summer.

Boston is probably the one place he’d want to stay. So if gorton wants him back he’s got to be careful there.

McQuaid id love back next year he’s a really good guy to have for a rebuilding team but i only want him back if Pionk is gone.
 
I think we can get some nice returns. Had a very long chat this evening. Bobby Mac is pretty close to where it will land it appears. Hayes in the East, Zucc to the West it seems. Zucc will garner the most from a team with size. Retaining on Hayes will strengthen the return.
It also appears that the Rangers are saving money for something unconventional. Plus there is someone outside the usual suspects very likely to be dealt. I did not get this name - but have my suspicions. Gorton runs a very tight ship. For sure. Gotta respect that.

Please let it be Neal Pionk with the Rangers wanting to keep Mcquaid
 
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I still don’t think we trade Hayes To Boston when we want to bring him back this summer.

Boston is probably the one place he’d want to stay. So if gorton wants him back he’s got to be careful there.

McQuaid id love back next year he’s a really good guy to have for a rebuilding team but i only want him back if Pionk is gone.
If Bos gives us the best value he goes there. This isn’t a popularity contest. If he wants to stay then we’ll be getting another pick based on that (I would think).

I trade whatever we are trading to whomever for THE BEST VALUE I can get. End story. Pitt, Philly, Isles don’t care
 
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