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Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXVI

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Strome is not the answer at 2C unless he greatly improves his forecheck and defensive game. I really like the guy but I don't know if he fills that void. If he comes in on a RNH deal, Zibs returns to his '2way form' and we get bottom6 centers that fill in the gap, it could work. That's a lot of if's though.

Chytil is not the answer as of now. We need a potential matchup center as our 3C. Maybe he can get there eventually, but he's not that. I've said it multiple times, I see him as a great/phenomenal 3C if he could shape up his 2way game and matchup. His limitations are on offense as a Center imo. He has great tools but doesn't fully understand how to use them. His vision/IQ/gamesense is awkward to put it nicely.

I truly have a gut feeling Barron sticks and is a lock as our middle6 Center. His shot, size and skillset can work all over the lineup
 
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TheBloodyNine said:
Strome won't be here next season and it's getting late early for the "Can Chytil be a top 6 center?" question. He had a mediocre camp and has not done much of anything to start the season here that would suggest that question is going to be answered in the affirmative.
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Chytil had a good preseason, with a hattrick in the last game. Everyone on this team needs to be given some time.
 
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duhmetreE said:
Strome is not the answer at 2C unless he greatly improves his forecheck and defensive game. I really like the guy but I don't know if he fills that void. If he comes in on a RNH deal, Zibs returns to his '2way form' and we get bottom6 centers that fill in the gap, it could work. That's a lot of if's though.

Chytil is not the answer as of now. We need a potential matchup center as our 3C. Maybe he can get there eventually, but he's not that. I've said it multiple times, I see him as a great/phenomenal 3C if he could shape up his 2way game and matchup. His limitations are on offense as a Center imo. He has great tools but doesn't fully understand how to use them. His vision/IQ/gamesense is awkward to put it nicely.

I truly have a gut feeling Barron sticks and is a lock as our middle6 Center. His shot, size and skillset can work all over the lineup
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See my issue isn't with Ryan Strome, it's that I see exactly zero way to fit that under the salary cap without murdering Kreider.
 
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One answer could be:

Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Kaako
Panarin-Chytil-Strome
Kreider-Barron-Blais
Goodrow-______-Hunt/Reaves

If the team stacks their wingers, they can fit in Strome. IMO he would be a really nice top-6 RW and perhaps this necessitates a move of someone like Kreider for cap space and futures. The center ice position would be young but their job would be playing solid 2-way hockey and supporting their wingers as needed. For Chytil that would mean shooting and digging out pucks. Barron, just playing physical and working the puck down low.
 
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Fitzy said:
See my issue isn't with Ryan Strome, it's that I see exactly zero way to fit that under the salary cap without murdering Kreider.
Click to expand...
he could fit at or around 5M, a $1M raise or so. That's a major assumption, assuming he wants to stay here and takes way less that open market value; ie RNH. Maybe even slot in as a RWer eventually if Barron and Chytil development goes extremely well.

I don't think Kakko and Laf will get the big contracts we were expecting they could. Maaaybe Laf if he catches fire.

I also think Fox will take a lot less than what he's worth. Maybe I'm being too optimistic
 
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NYR Viper said:
One answer could be:

Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Kaako
Panarin-Chytil-Strome
Kreider-Barron-Blais
Goodrow-______-Hunt/Reaves

If the team stacks their wingers, they can fit in Strome. IMO he would be a really nice top-6 RW and perhaps this necessitates a move of someone like Kreider for cap space and futures. The center ice position would be young but their job would be playing solid 2-way hockey and supporting their wingers as needed. For Chytil that would mean shooting and digging out pucks. Barron, just playing physical and working the puck down low.
Click to expand...
I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but I'd switch Barron and Chytil. I'm slowly turning into @EdJovanovski ... soon I'll guarantee Barron scores 70pts as our 2C. There's something about Barron that I just see translating well and I really believe he will find great success.
 
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duhmetreE said:
he could fit at or around 5M, a $1M raise or so. That's a major assumption, assuming he wants to stay here and takes way less that open market value; ie RNH. Maybe even slot in as a RWer eventually if Barron and Chytil development goes extremely well.

I don't think Kakko and Laf will get the big contracts we were expecting they could. Maaaybe Laf if he catches fire.

I also think Fox will take a lot less than what he's worth. Maybe I'm being too optimistic
Click to expand...

I'd love Strome at 5 million. I think that would be Brassard part 2.

The issue is that even if Kakko and Laf don't get huge raises immediately, they will eventually.

You don't want to be jettisoning guys like K'Andre Miller and Kakko 3 years from now because we gave a now aging Strome 8 years.

So, frankly, were they to somehow go that route, which I think is unlikely, I'd frontload the shit out of the deal and make him tradeable within 3 years of the contract starting.
 
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We've gotten so hyped about our #1OA and #2OA, ( rightfully so ) that we've 'overlooked' our late draft talent.

Barron and Berard will play a huge role going forward IMO. They are the quintessential types that you win with imo.
 
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TheBloodyNine said:
Strome won't be here next season and it's getting late early for the "Can Chytil be a top 6 center?" question. He had a mediocre camp and has not done much of anything to start the season here that would suggest that question is going to be answered in the affirmative.
Click to expand...
The way I see it is that the rangers need to save cap space somehow and with Laf, Kakko, and Panarin on the team...the 2c spot is the place to do it. Maybe the answer is not Chytil and if it isn't we need to identify someone who is as cheap as Chytil to fill in that void. I think if Chytil gets heavy 3c minutes with Goodrow and really develops his two way game more then he can slot in nicely as the 2c next year. He has great wheels and is always in the picture when in the defensive zone but just needs the game to slow down for him a little bit to really take that next step. At least he tries to actually be a center. If not he'll still be a cheap RW for the production he'll most likely bring.
 
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See the depressing thing I've been dwelling on of late is that NYR have no actually drafted a star skater since Marc Savard.

Most of our star players, Zibby, Panarin, Nash, Gaborik, McDonagh, Fox, Jagr- We've gotten them via free agency or trade.

We've drafted some 1B players like Cally, Stepan, Dubi, but no real game breakers. No special talent.

We drafted Lundqvist but that was a late round hunch.

Now we have measured projections for Kakko and Lafreniere- that they may be first line players, but it's unlikely they will reach Zibby/Bread level ever.
 
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Fitzy said:
I'd love Strome at 5 million. I think that would be Brassard part 2.

The issue is that even if Kakko and Laf don't get huge raises immediately, they will eventually.

You don't want to be jettisoning guys like K'Andre Miller and Kakko 3 years from now because we gave a now aging Strome 8 years.

So, frankly, were they to somehow go that route, which I think is unlikely, I'd frontload the shit out of the deal and make him tradeable within 3 years of the contract starting.
Click to expand...

I think at the point you're talking about, guys like Trouba or Kreider will be traded if space is needed.
 
In all of these salary cap conversations we keep talking about how “with Laf and Kakko…” we need to save space elsewhere in the lineup.

I know we’re keeping our hopes high and being positive when we do that, but players don’t get paid based on their draft position. Neither of them has earned anything more than a modest bridge/cheaper long term deal and they can both be re-signed this summer. Kakko has to, Laf can be. It could be another 3 years for Kakko and 4 for Laf before we even have to consider sizeable raises for them. Their cap hits, due to signing bonus, are 3.975M and 3.955M. Their bridges would likely actually be less than that.

I know, if there’s enough flashes of the upside there you’d rather get them locked up long term at a moderate AAV, rather than letting them develop for 3 more years and cost more. The problem is… neither of them has even done enough that we should be comfortable with the idea of 6-8x5M, which they’d be foolish to accept. They’re going to get bridged at around what they currently cost. I can’t imagine either of them earning more than 4M next deal.
 
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RGY said:
I have to say my interest in Tarasenko has changed. I would be curious to see what the cost would be and if they would be willing to retain any money. Kreider would have to move to the 3rd line permanently for it to work. And it would also take us out of the running for 1C-B behind Zibanejad. We could probably afford a deadline rental this year but then would have to hope Chytil or Barron blossom into a 2C as a cheap contract to fit everything
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Tarasenko has another year on his contract beyond this one. It's a complete non-starter, regardless of retained money.
 
It will never happen, but good lord does this pandemic call for some sort of cap rule changes that can help alleviate issues for literally every team in the league. I have always said that the league should offer something like a "cap credit" to teams who sign their own players who they have invested millions into. If you sign fox for 9.5 million for example the rangers get a cap credit of say 2 million dollars. Can only use it with players who you either drafted or have played 2+ years of an ELC (can even add maybe a provision for players who have played 1 year of an elc and two years of a second contract who are still RFAs for a lesser cap credit). There just isn't going to be enough money for everyone and that's not a Rangers exclusive problem.
 
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Avery16 said:
Trades require partners, and that's after their NMCs are converted to NTCs. That will be a tricky needle to thread.
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I really don't see Kreider as being difficult to trade, even right now.

Trouba's final 2 years on his deal he makes $6m per season in actual dollars. That's after 2023-2024 season

Kreider after his $2m signing bonus is paid prior to 2023-2024 season makes only $17m over 4 years, or $4.25m in real money per season when averaged out.

Both of these guys are paid accordingly right now and once the cap is more sure to go up, there won't be as big of an issue.
 
TheBloodyNine said:
It will never happen, but good lord does this pandemic call for some sort of cap rule changes that can help alleviate issues for literally every team in the league. I have always said that the league should offer something like a "cap credit" to teams who sign their own players who they have invested millions into. If you sign fox for 9.5 million for example the rangers get a cap credit of say 2 million dollars. Can only use it with players who you either drafted or have played 2+ years of an ELC (can even add maybe a provision for players who have played 1 year of an elc and two years of a second contract who are still RFAs for a lesser cap credit). There just isn't going to be enough money for everyone and that's not a Rangers exclusive problem.
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The NBA does it. It's not without precedent. The owners though? I'd bet only a small minority would go for it. Not saying it may never, but the fact it doesn't exist yet tells you all you need to know about the current state of ownership.
 
DialUp said:
The NBA does it. It's not without precedent. The owners though? I'd bet only a small minority would go for it. Not saying it may never, but the fact it doesn't exist yet tells you all you need to know about the current state of ownership.
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Right. The cap has never been about "parity" it has always been about the owners. Hopefully those owners start getting fed up that they can't keep all their good young players and maybe think twice about it. I'm sure their GMs would council them thusly.
 
TheBloodyNine said:
Right. The cap has never been about "parity" it has always been about the owners. Hopefully those owners start getting fed up that they can't keep all their good young players and maybe think twice about it. I'm sure their GMs would council them thusly.
Click to expand...

It's probably both a way of keeping costs down generally, but the NHL has huge disparities in revenue and income across its teams. If you soften the cap, then certain teams will be able to take advantage of that more than others. If there were a better mechanism for revenue sharing so that teams operating a loss could be allowed to spend on players and build something competitive, then loosening the reigns would make more sense IMO.
 
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