Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXVI

[DuneGoon84]

the whole situation stinks
even if you trade for Eichel while being fine with the idea of "well he won't play this year and we'll deal with Zibanejad in the offseason" it sends a clear "we don't want you here and are moving on" message to Zibanejad which could affect the whole locker room
Not to mention trading roster assets and causing those shakeups right before/as the season starts
Making a huge trade like that right now is nuts

very good point, this kind of trade will send a bad message to the current players...

 

[jay from jersey]

Realistically thats not getting it done

Yea I think 1 of Lundkvist/ Kravtsov would have to headline the package imo. Likely Lundkvist

 

[Lion Hound]

Moi

Headin in as well. Pumped to see a game live. Maybe a HF pre game toast?

 

[jay from jersey]

He's not gonna destroy our cap, he's gonna be a bargain at 10 million. The beauty of getting him now is we can keep him and Zib for a playoff run. If the trade was made today he'd likely be playing by new year at a pro rated cap. I'm on the fence if i want him or not but whoever is in the #1, c spot is gonna be 10 mill, we have nothing in the minors.

This is the long and the short of it. If they truly want to compete with this crop (Panarin years).
There is no center available that is in Eichel’s tier of talent when he’s healthy. If Drury/Ranger doc feel there’s a 90% chance or higher he returns to form, I’d wager they make the deal.
Guys like Larkin/Lindholm/Hertl are going to cost a ton if they even become available at all. None of them are in Eichel’s class when Jack is at his best.
Without the injury, there’s not a shot in hell we’d have a chance to get him at a discounted price. I don’t want to let Zibby just walk, but I’m not interested in him bending us over for 7-8 years either.

 

[jay from jersey]

very good point, this kind of trade will send a bad message to the current players...

Nah. Players know it’s a business. Odds are the rangers aren’t going to just walk away from zibby/trade him unless their no bend in his contract demands.
It’s not like kreider or Panarin are going to offer some of their cap hits/cash so the rangers can keep Zibby. It happened with Buch, it could happen with Zibby. But Drury is not going to trade/let his 1C leave without being sure he’s got an adequate replacement coming back in the same talent tier

 

[IDvsEGO]

Nah. Players know it’s a business. Odds are the rangers aren’t going to just walk away from zibby/trade him unless their no bend in his contract demands.
It’s not like kreider or Panarin are going to offer some of their cap hits/cash so the rangers can keep Zibby. It happened with Buch, it could happen with Zibby. But Drury is not going to trade/let his 1C leave without being sure he’s got an adequate replacement coming back in the same talent tier

My thought process is that a trade for eichel likely starts a similar issue that toronto had once they brought in tavares.
The leafs brought in tavares, and then when marner and matthews out produced him they essentially held toronto over a barrel in RFA discussions, and thats with marner being a hometown kid.
The rangers have more RFA's in the next year or two, which unless theyre locked up properly, will wipe out our contention window quickly.

 

[bbny]

I have to believe that Hertl is a guy NYR looks at going forward, especially with the talk that he doesnt want to resign in SJ.

They'll look at him go somewhere else

 

[jay from jersey]

My thought process is that a trade for eichel likely starts a similar issue that toronto had once they brought in tavares.
The leafs brought in tavares, and then when marner and matthews out produced him they essentially held toronto over a barrel in RFA discussions, and thats with marner being a hometown kid.
The rangers have more RFA's in the next year or two, which unless theyre locked up properly, will wipe out our contention window quickly.

I see what your saying about the contract similarities, but the leafs also had a whole host of other problems. they didn’t really have a great farm system to insert young cheap skilled guys when needed. Their blue line depth was beyond poor and they had to pay a premium to bring in guys like Muzzin etc, and their goalie situation was a debacle.
Also, a big reason I would have taken Wallstedt when he fell, for some shesty insurance.
Eichel would be coming in younger then when Tavares also arrived on the leafs.
We also have more options then Toronto. Panarin isn’t signed for forever. Kreider and especially trouba are very moveable in 3 years If need be with suitable internal replacements etc.
Reilly is no Adam Fox, Eichel’s deal is for 5 years not a 7 year over 30 albatross like Zibby could potentially be....
As long as Drury is smart with who we deal and what we get back, and we don’t deal our 1st rd picks for 2-3 years in a row, we’re in a lot better position.
Kakko also had a poor 1st 2 seasons stat wise, which will help with his next deal as well.
The leafs kid of had a perfect storm of marner/Matthews/nylander all having 2 solid production years leading up to contract time.
And not for nothing, If Dubai’s did the right thing and fixed that goaltending and D, leafs would have prob hoisted the cup already.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I see what your saying about the contract similarities, but the leafs also had a whole host of other problems. they didn’t really have a great farm system to insert young cheap skilled guys when needed. Their blue line depth was beyond poor and they had to pay a premium to bring in guys like Muzzin etc, and their goalie situation was a debacle.
Also, a big reason I would have taken Wallstedt when he fell, for some shesty insurance.
Eichel would be coming in younger then when Tavares also arrived on the leafs.
We also have more options then Toronto. Panarin isn’t signed for forever. Kreider and especially trouba are very moveable in 3 years If need be with suitable internal replacements etc.
Reilly is no Adam Fox, Eichel’s deal is for 5 years not a 7 year over 30 albatross like Zibby could potentially be....
As long as Drury is smart with who we deal and what we get back, and we don’t deal our 1st rd picks for 2-3 years in a row, we’re in a lot better position.
Kakko also had a poor 1st 2 seasons stat wise, which will help with his next deal as well.
The leafs kid of had a perfect storm of marner/Matthews/nylander all having 2 solid production years leading up to contract time.
And not for nothing, If Dubai’s did the right thing and fixed that goaltending and D, leafs would have prob hoisted the cup already.

Dubas has his hands tied with goaltending and defense though. They have almost no cap space. They added muzzin, and he's a solid value contract for what he is.

The leafs didnt have an insane prospect system because matthews literally carried them from 1st overall pick, to a playoff spot. Rather than one more round of high picks, they bottomed out and flipped the switch immediately.

We lucked out with kakko and laf.

Kakko is likely a bridge deal, probably 2-3 years at something like 3-4m even if he does break out. But I'd try and lock him up long term with something like 6-7m /8years.
Laf is going to be the issue. If he breaks out the way we want, we're looking at closer to 8+m a season minimum.

Yes we have trouba and kreider being movable in 3-4 years, which should help significantly.
The problem is its harder to convince a guy like fox, whos a hometown kid, to take a deal when you become mercenary and acquire an asset like eichel, while not rewarding the guys whove performed for you already.
When you remind your players its a business, you shouldn't be surprised that they remind you of that as well.

 

[jay from jersey]

Dubas has his hands tied with goaltending and defense though. They have almost no cap space. They added muzzin, and he's a solid value contract for what he is.

The leafs didnt have an insane prospect system because matthews literally carried them from 1st overall pick, to a playoff spot. Rather than one more round of high picks, they bottomed out and flipped the switch immediately.

We lucked out with kakko and laf.

Kakko is likely a bridge deal, probably 2-3 years at something like 3-4m even if he does break out. But I'd try and lock him up long term with something like 6-7m /8years.
Laf is going to be the issue. If he breaks out the way we want, we're looking at closer to 8+m a season minimum.

Yes we have trouba and kreider being movable in 3-4 years, which should help significantly.
The problem is its harder to convince a guy like fox, whos a hometown kid, to take a deal when you become mercenary and acquire an asset like eichel, while not rewarding the guys whove performed for you already.
When you remind your players its a business, you shouldn't be surprised that they remind you of that as well.

one of Marner/ nylander should have been moved for help on D when they brought in Tavares and realized Sandin/ liljegren were a ways off and The ladder not as good as hyped to be.
Odds are fox will be signed long before Eichel ever steps on the ice for NYR. The way are contracts are staggered, we’re in a far better position to make a trade like this then Toronto was at that time.
That was one advantage of having 2 corps so to speak.
My personal view, I’m more comfortable with Eichel from 25-30 going fwd then Zibby 30-37/38 for similar money, even with jacks injury.
Gotta figure in 3 years when kreids/trouba can move, the cap will also increase as well

 

[Alluckks]

The recent flurry of Eichel tweets have spurred Sabres fans to get all twisted up and angsty all over the internet again; absolutely hilarious

 

[bleedblue94]

The recent flurry of Eichel tweets have spurred Sabres fans to get all twisted up and angsty all over the internet again; absolutely hilarious

Can you summarize any updates please?

 

[McRanger92]

I feel like the Eichel situation is directly tied to how contract talks go with Mika. The unfortunate reality is that Zibanejad needs to give the Rangers a bit of a discount on his next contract or else hes going to be replaced by Eichel. Every contender has star players that take less to stay, and the Rangers arent immune to it.

I wont begrudge Mika if he holds out for the highest possible offer, but i think we all know that wont be from us. I guess we will see how much he truly wants to be a part of what is being built here.

Also, its very obvious to me that if we do get Eichel the package will be Jones (numbers game on D) Kravtsov or Chytil (their roster standing is clearly not as strong as others) and Georgiev plus picks. Hardly mortgaging the farm. And with the teams newfound depth, i think they could conceivably pull a Kucherov and have Eichel join the team in time for the playoffs

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I feel like the Eichel situation is directly tied to how contract talks go with Mika. The unfortunate reality is that Zibanejad needs to give the Rangers a bit of a discount on his next contract or else hes going to be replaced by Eichel. Every contender has star players that take less to stay, and the Rangers arent immune to it.

I wont begrudge Mika if he holds out for the highest possible offer, but i think we all know that wont be from us. I guess we will see how much he truly wants to be a part of what is being built here.

Also, its very obvious to me that if we do get Eichel the package will be Jones (numbers game on D) Kravtsov or Chytil (their roster standing is clearly not as strong as others) and Georgiev plus picks. Hardly mortgaging the farm. And with the teams newfound depth, i think they could conceivably pull a Kucherov and have Eichel join the team in time for the playoffs

The unfortunate reality is that Zibanejad needs to give the Rangers a bit of a discount on his next contract Eichel or no Eichel.

 

[jay from jersey]

The recent flurry of Eichel tweets have spurred Sabres fans to get all twisted up and angsty all over the internet again; absolutely hilarious

They are out of their minds. they really still believe that Eichel’s value is the same as 6 months ago and potentially losing a whole playing season this year hasn’t negatively impacted his value.
I guess they are still in crisis or denial, however you want to put it.
The Eichel trade thread on the main boards is like medication time in one flew over the cuckoos nest from Kubrick

 

[jay from jersey]

I feel like the Eichel situation is directly tied to how contract talks go with Mika. The unfortunate reality is that Zibanejad needs to give the Rangers a bit of a discount on his next contract or else hes going to be replaced by Eichel. Every contender has star players that take less to stay, and the Rangers arent immune to it.

I wont begrudge Mika if he holds out for the highest possible offer, but i think we all know that wont be from us. I guess we will see how much he truly wants to be a part of what is being built here.

Also, its very obvious to me that if we do get Eichel the package will be Jones (numbers game on D) Kravtsov or Chytil (their roster standing is clearly not as strong as others) and Georgiev plus picks. Hardly mortgaging the farm. And with the teams newfound depth, i think they could conceivably pull a Kucherov and have Eichel join the team in time for the playoffs

this is 100% where I’m at with it. Couldn’t have posted it better myself.
There’s a big difference between 5yr 50 mill and 7-8 yrs 70-80 mill when one player is 25 and the other is 30.
Of course, not to beat a dead horse, they have to be confident he returns from surgery at a high level, which seems to be the case.
Not only that, there is also risk of Zibbys play dropping off substantially at 34-35 whether they have to buy him out or pay some team to take him in trade, all that has to be factored in to the decision making.
That deal could wind up looking worse then kreider if there’s a big drop off at 32-33 years old. Just food for thought

 

[McRanger92]

The unfortunate reality is that Zibanejad needs to give the Rangers a bit of a discount on his next contract Eichel or no Eichel.

Also true. But Eichel gives Drury some leverage

 

[Alluckks]

Can you summarize any updates please?

Literally nothing burger updates from the usual suspects of "rumors" hockey twitter

Sabres fans continue to froth at the mouth when anyone besides them discuss Eichel and how their team has completely botched this, as well as what is realistic

 

[egelband]

They are out of their minds. they really still believe that Eichel’s value is the same as 6 months ago and potentially losing a whole playing season this year hasn’t negatively impacted his value.
I guess they are still in crisis or denial, however you want to put it.
The Eichel trade thread on the main boards is like medication time in one flew over the cuckoos nest from Kubrick

One guy said the Rangers prospects aren’t any good because they’re…unproven.

 

[jay from jersey]

One guy said the Rangers prospects aren’t any good because they’re…unproven.

Yea there’s some strange birds in there for sure

 

[RangerBoy]

The Sabres know time is not on their side. Eichel has a $7.5M signing bonus due next July. His NMC starts next July.

If Eichel is suddenly available for 60 cents on the dollar and a reasonable, conditional asset in play aside from the players being dealt immediately, it could be very much worth the gamble for a team looking at the bigger picture and a 24-year-old player who can absolutely once again become a top-10 player in the world.

IF. Buffalo has a perceived value on Eichel which nobody will pay. Adams is scrambled trying to make a deal. He should have made the deal in the summer.

LeBrun wrote the disc replacement surgery is a 4 month recovery period. The doctor Jeff Marek had on his show said at least 6 months.

He is making a big deal about the draft pick being conditional. What about the other assets?

Still, the Sabres also know they’re trading a franchise player when healthy. So yes, the price might get altered, but it’s still a price to be paid even with a conditional aspect to it.

But there’s also the little detail of shoehorning Eichel’s $10 million AAV into a team’s cap situation. Remember, if Eichel comes back before the end of the regular season after having his surgery, and four months from mid-October is mid-February, then teams have to have the cap room to carry Eichel.

The Sabres have ample cap room themselves and could take back plenty of salary if they’re willing to do so. But this is also about the acquiring team not wanting to water down their roster too much with the departed assets while waiting for months to get
Eichel on the ice.

That’s why I think Minnesota is likely out of it at this point, for example. The Wild had kept tabs on it for months. But with the buyouts they made this summer and those cap charges moving forward, making room cap-wise for Eichel would require a lot of bodies going out the door.

The Flyers kept tabs on it early on as well but with all their offseason moves, I don’t think they feel like it makes sense anymore.

The Rangers have forever been linked to Eichel. I don’t sense they’re as much in it anymore.

The Kings gave it some thought for a while but my sense now is that Los Angeles isn’t that involved. Although things can always change on that front.

Calgary and Anaheim are among teams that have done their due diligence on Eichel and I believe remain interested to some degree. The Ducks, to me, make a lot of sense in the bigger picture. They’re most likely not a playoff team this season, they want to continue to go young, Eichel definitely would fit into that rebuild. But at what price?

LeBrun: The latest on renewed Jack Eichel trade talks

 

[RangerBoy]

New York Post Podcast was released yesterday.

Remember when Larry Brooks wrote the Rangers should trade Kakko to the Sabres for Eichel. On the podcast, Brooks said he wouldn't make that trade. He has no idea what is going on with Zibanejad's contract situation. Drury doesn't leak. Mika's brother doesn't leak. No Information is available. Larry isn't a big Eichel guy. He thinks Mika is a better player. Eichel's health is an issue too. Larry did say the Rangers have extended players during the season. Kreider in 2019. Girardi in 2014. Zuccarello in 2015.

https://nypost.com/2021/10/07/up-in-the-blue-seats-rangers-season-preview/

2021-2022 Rangers Season Preview feat. Barclay Goodrow

 

[Avery16]

 

[NYSPORTS]

My thought process is that a trade for eichel likely starts a similar issue that toronto had once they brought in tavares.
The leafs brought in tavares, and then when marner and matthews out produced him they essentially held toronto over a barrel in RFA discussions, and thats with marner being a hometown kid.
The rangers have more RFA's in the next year or two, which unless theyre locked up properly, will wipe out our contention window quickly.

yup, and we’ll all be asking ourselves why we didn’t keep the players we drafted or shop for less costly players.

 

[NYSPORTS]

try that in the NFL and the world would stop.